[ISTJ] ISTJs: Is love worth the trouble?

[AutumnReverie]

I second that. I am so relieved to know that I'm not the only person who has a checklist (and who actually has "find a boyfriend" at the bottom of that list). In fact one of the reasons I never dated in highschool was because I didn't consider it a high priority. I was busy doing other things and, from observing my friends relationships, I didn't see the appeal in gaining such an experience. I also thought it was fairly improbable that I would meet someone at that age and grow with them as we got older and remain together. I'm in my early 20s right now, and I have to know who I am in my life before I can share with that someone else. I would also like to have college completed, have a decent career lined up, etc. before getting married.

I'd also like to say (and I greatly suspect this applies to some of the frequent posters on this thread) that although we ISTJs get deeply tangled up in the cost/benefit analysis of love (boy was that a perfect description by the way) we really do share that which is common to all humans-a deep need to connect intimately with people. That is why this thread was even started - an ISTJ felt a hole deep down and knew it needed to be fixed somehow.

Yes I agree. We tend to approach the whole thing very practically, but that doesn't mean that we don't want to connect with people. Personally, I do want to have a deep and meaningful relationship with someone and get married...in the future, but not right now.

...personal growth, financial stability, education etc before I undertake any risk.

Exactly. I need to have all these things in order first and then I'll start my pursuit of a husband.

I'm so glad to hear other ISTJs thoughts on this. Whenever I tell some one that I'm singly by choice, it's like they don't believe that anyone would actually do that. I feel like a lot of people in my age range feel the need to be in a relationship for the sake of "being in a relationship" (not being alone, and having some sort of validation that they are loved). I don't feel this way, because I'm a very independent person and my self-worth isn't based on another person. Disclaimer: I'm not assuming that everyone who is in a relationship feels this way, in fact, I know many who are in relationship simply for the fact that they love their partner (obviously). It's just that many people I know have felt depressed or un-loved because they were single or put a great amount of effort into finding someone (a significant other) so that they no longer feel that way; and I do not nor have ever felt that way personally.

However at the moment, the "right time" for pursuing a boyfriend/husband, in my mind, is somewhere around 25+ years old. When I hit that age, I'll make "romantic love" more of priority. That's my plan, anyway. I wouldn't be opposed to being in a relationship now, but it's not something that I'm making an effort to actively pursue at the moment because I have other priorities and I'm content with being single right now.

 

[FDG]

The reason why it's so important is that since it begets reproduction, it's evolutionarily necessary. Most of the individuals that did not allow themselves to fall in love and/or did not act - at least a little - irrationaly were, on average, less likely to have progeny, and thus most of humanity has been generated out of people that were willing to take that risk.

I will also add that it's better not to fool yourself into a position of superiority due to the fact that your friends are in a relationship and you aren't. It would be akin to an homeless person feeling superior to a professional because the latter has payed for his beautiful house.

 

[AutumnReverie]

I will also add that it's better not to fool yourself into a position of superiority due to the fact that your friends are in a relationship and you aren't. It would be akin to an homeless person feeling superior to a professional because the latter has payed for his beautiful house.

I don't feel superior and I wasn't referring specifically to my friends. I have much respect for them and their relationships, and if I felt that they were merely in a relationship for the sake of being in a relationship then I would say something to them about it.

In fact, when I've asked them about some of their past relationship choices they are the ones who said that they were only in the relationship because they were alone or desperate or felt like everyone had someone except them. So my conclusion about many people in my age range (who I have observed and/or spoken to) was not just based on assumption, it was based on many girls in my age range telling me themselves how they felt -- in a relationship, post-relationship, or being single and wishing they were in a relationship. Obviously I can't speak for all college-aged females, but just the ones who have come to me with their relationship drama/problems.

The reason why it's so important is that since it begets reproduction, it's evolutionarily necessary. Most of the individuals that did not allow themselves to fall in love and/or did not act - at least a little - irrationaly were, on average, less likely to have progeny, and thus most of humanity has been generated out of people that were willing to take that risk.

I don't think any ISTJ in this thread said that romantic relationship isn't important, and I'm sure that we all realize that it begets reproduction. I believe the general consensus of a lot of ISTJs on this thread is that it just isn't as high of a priority for us right now. If I didn't think it was important then it wouldn't be on my "checklist" at all. But it is on there (just after things like "personal growth", "education", "career", etc.) and I look forward to getting married and having a family in the future.

Most of the other ISTJs have already articulated how I feel fairly well, so I'll quote

This:

The making myself emotionally vulnerable part keeps me away from pretty much every girl. I weigh their impact on me before I do anything. If I feel threatened by their presence at all, I stand aside.

I agree. Even though a lot of it has to do with priorities, there is definitely a fear of emotionally vulnerability there.

And this:

I'm not married, I'm currently single, and I'd probably like being in a relationship, but I don't mind being single.

Exactly. I wouldn't mind being in a relationship right now, but I don't mind being single ...just because being in a relationship is not my number one priority/goal at the moment.

This is my point exactly. I'm fine with my life the way it is. I know I'm not a risk taker and I'm fine with that too. And it's not neccessarily the risk taking that's a problem, it's the change. I'm not big on change unless I can predict the outcome and it's in my favor.

I believe if I truly wanted to be in a relationship, I could be. This need for order in my life has prevented me from doing so thus far. I like to have my bases covered before proceeding with anything, else I feel out of control. There's girls in my life that I could definitely go out with, I just don't feel it's the right time. I don't like to do things half-way and I just don't want to get into it unless I can give it my all. If I can't finish what I start, then it's all just a waist of time for everyone involved.

Again, agreed completely. I don't like doing things half-way either and I would like to have all of my bases covered first. And like this original poster said, I believe if I truly wanted to be in a relationship right now, I could be. Perhaps that's a bit arrogant, but I don't intend it to sound that way.


I understand that this may be hard for other types to understand, but honestly "it's not a high priority right now" and "I don't necessarily need it in my life at the moment to feel content with my life" isn't me feeling superior over all those people actually in relationships (or over people who actually have it as a high priority), it's just how I (and apparently many other ISTJs) feel. I'm not saying that I don't go on dates or that I would reject someone who I think I could have a future with just because I met the person "off-schedule. I just don't place much importance on it right now, actively put effort forth to achieve that goal, or feel "bad" that I haven't had that experience yet.

 

[batumi]

I definitely understand what you are saying - but at times I have pushed myself to be in a relationship for the growth. It is a place where one can truly experience personal growth.

Also relationships can make you remember your alone times with such lovely affection.

 

[d@v3]

Well, the thread says is "love" worth the trouble. Just because your in a relationship doesn't mean you are actually in "love" with the other person, right? So, in other words, you can be in a relationship, but it takes time to get to the "love" stage.... at least, that is my opinion. So how do you know if it is worth it or not if you have never gotten to that stage?

So, I wouldn't mind being in a "relationship", because I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" [which would probably take a couple years] I will be done with school and in the workforce.

There I go with trying to plan things again!

Besides, being in a relationship teaches you things, such as how to accept a person for who they are. Now, I know we all learned that in kindergarten, but I think it is one of those things where you have to experience it before you "feel" it... maybe?

 

[AutumnReverie]

Well, the thread says is "love" worth the trouble. Just because your in a relationship doesn't mean you are actually in "love" with the other person, right? So, in other words, you can be in a relationship, but it takes time to get to the "love" stage.... at least, that is my opinion. So how do you know if it is worth it or not if you have never gotten to that stage?

Ah, the original question. I agree. I can't answer the question of whether or not "love" is worth it, since I've never been "in love" before and wouldn't know. But I think that "love" is worth it, and I look forward to when I get to that stage in my life.

So, I wouldn't mind being in a "relationship", because I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" [which would probably take a couple years] I will be done with school and in the workforce.

There I go with trying to plan things again!

Haha yeah, same here. I estimate that by the time I'm in "love" I will be done with school and have my career established (or on the way to being established).

Besides, being in a relationship teaches you things, such as how to accept a person for who they are. Now, I know we all learned that in kindergarten, but I think it is one of those things where you have to experience it before you "feel" it... maybe?

Yes, possibly. I agree, I think that a relationship has the potential to teach you things or reaffirm things you already knew to begin with.

I definitely understand what you are saying - but at times I have pushed myself to be in a relationship for the growth. It is a place where one can truly experience personal growth.

I would say that it is one of many possible places where one could experience personal growth. Personally, I believe one can experience just as much personal growth by oneself. And the opposite of your statement could be true as well, one could experience negative personal growth (...or would you call that, personal stagnation or personal regression?) in a relationship.

I guess it all depends upon the specific experiences.

^ Sounds like me! Never had a relationship so at least your not alone. Those questions do suck and it's really nobody else's business, although, I can see why they would be curious. So when someone asks me (depending on who it is [usually mother or sister]) the conversation usually goes like this:

Mother: "When are you going to find a girlfriend?"
Me: "Never"
Mother: "Are you ever getting married?"
Me: "Nope"

-The End-

From what I have heard, it is worth it to love. I have found it incredibly boring to live my life by myself and noone to share it with. Kind of like my view on money. I hate the effects money can have on people. In my opinion, the only reason to have an excess of money is if you have someone (other than yourself) to spend it on. (That is where budgeting comes in )

Those questions do suck and it really isn't anyone's business.

I agree (about the money thing)...it wouldn't really mean as much to me if I didn't have someone (a family - a spouse, kids, etc.) to spend it on.

 

[FallaciaSonata]

I do loathe those types of question....you're right. It isn't any of their business. I understand that they care, but still....

I'm keeping my checklist. I've decided that if a bright light flashes, followed quickly by fanfare, and someone designed just for me drops out of the sky and lands right in front of me, then yes. I'll go ahead and try this "love" stuff.

But until then, I'm keeping my checklist.

 

[AutumnReverie]

I feel the same way. I'm keeping my checklist too. Like you said, if someone I feel strongly about or see a future with comes along (ahead of schedule) then I'll give the whole "love" thing a try. But it's not something that I'm going to actively pursue or put a lot of effort into achieving right now. I will once I reach that point on my "list", but until then...not so much.

To the original poster (fishingdude): If you're fine with being single right now and having your checklist, then I don't see why you would need to go through the trouble of altering or deviating from the list if that's not what you want to do. Just because other people have have "love" further up on their list or perhaps they don't have a list at all (the horror!), doesn't mean that you should let them pressure you. It may be a high priority for others right now, but it's okay and understandable if it's not a high priority for you right now.

 

[Cimarron]

Assuming FDG was being serious, I think he's saying that the longer we wait, the fewer opportunities and chances we'll have. So the search for love is like a timed test.

 

[d@v3]

It's called the dreaded "social clock" Cimarron.

 

[AutumnReverie]

Ah I see ...the "social clock". His post made it seem like he was trying to make us think about the "biological clock" haha.

 

[swordpath]

"Finding love" (as stupid as that phrase sounds to me) is necessary but definitely one of the hardest things for an ISTJ to do, at least initially in the early stages of developing those feelings with someone. Opening up and letting down our guard with our emotions is something that doesn't come natural, AT ALL. It's hard to risk and sometimes fail, it's the price you pay. Especially because, when we do walk out on a limb, we do it thoughtfully and we really do invest a lot of emotion. Not nessecarily extroverted emotion, but it's definitely there beneath the surface. I can only say this: you'll never know if you don't try and I believe the good that can come out of a healthy, happy relationship is worth the effort.

 

[AutumnReverie]

Opening up and letting down our guard with our emotions is something that doesn't come natural, AT ALL. It's hard to risk and sometimes fail, it's the price you pay. Especially because, when we do walk out on a limb, we do it thoughtfully and we really do invest a lot of emotion. Not nessecarily extroverted emotion, but it's definitely there beneath the surface.

Well said. I completely agree. That is what makes it hard for us, but eventually we'll need to take risk and overcome in order to "find love".

To the original poster (fishingdude): I'd have to agree with Beat...

I can only say this: you'll never know if you don't try and I believe the good that can come out of a healthy, happy relationship is worth the effort.

...you won't know until you try (whether that be now or whether you wait until #6 on your list).

 

[nadishe]

As you can see, I need my ducks in a row. Its like I cant handle more than one thing at a time so I dont allow any time in my life for the unexpected. I live by routine and stick with what works. I feel out of control if I don't.

yeah, it feels likes its always a must to put everything first in order, i will find myself being crazy how to fix up everything. i myself is an ISTJ.
as for your question. i think its still worth the trouble... i believe win or lose you will still gain learning... everybody in this earth or at least many people are afraid to take the risk.. specially about that thing called "falling in love". its really not easy, but the same thing nothing is reallly easy. so taking up the challenge is much better choice. its better to fight and loose, rather than loose because you havent done something (just my opinion)

 

[Giggly]

Wow. I remember this thread. Re-reading again is hard as it brings up a lot of memories and painful feelings.

I dunno, I'm starting to think that those who don't think of love as such a huge risk are the ones who are most successful at it. Because fear seems to control those who have ever had the thought that love is a big risk. You know, like they say, "ignorance is bliss".

 

[fragrance]

5. Build a house � currently saving money
6. Find a girlfriend � must finish previous steps before proceeding

You should think about reordering your priorities. You should have done the girlfriend thing during school, somewhere around 1 or 2. Are you sure you're ISTJ? Since when do ISTJ ask why society is pressuring them to do this and that?

 

[Thalassa]

You should think about reordering your priorities. You should have done the girlfriend thing during school, somewhere around 1 or 2. Are you sure you're ISTJ? Since when do ISTJ ask why society is pressuring them to do this and that?

Actually I don't think it's that strange for ISTJ to want all of these trappings before finding a serious gf.

I know an ISxJ who is all like, "I can't have a gf unless I have something to give her (i.e. he means he needs to have a job, security, et al)"

 

[SRT]

This is one of those questions that you can only ask yourself. I'm sure that someone's already said this, but I think it bears repeating.

 

[bcubchgo]

I know this thread is really old but it's somewhat baffling. Some of the responses reek of lack of empathy and fear of the unknown disguised as ambivalence. Is love worth the trouble? Of course it fucking is. What a dumb question. Take a chance and stop being such a hard ass with yourself.

 

[raz]

I thought I'd just throw this out there since it's now coming up lately.

All my life, I've always been viewed by other people as the practical and impersonal person. I've always had such major difficulty seeing the softer and looser side of things. The amount of people in my life who don't say something to me about my rigidity or intensity is such an insignificant number compared to the amount of friends and acquaintances I've made over the course of my life. Whenever I'm with a group of people, and the conversation turns away from impersonal business to your personal life, it makes me wildly uncomfortable.

That's why I've never really gotten that close to a lot of people. Getting into a conversation about things like relationships, sex, romance, and really just personal goals has always left me bewildered. It's really just that, I feel like I always come off to other people as the person that's strictly business. I've always felt like it was a major problem, because it was like I couldn't relate to other people.

This just leaves me wondering about relationships. I have such an immensely difficult time just...letting things flow, as people put it. When I start talking to a person, I'm constantly analyzing it, wondering, "Is this person interesting to me? Am I just humoring them? Are they threatening my security? Why do I like them? Why am I talking to them right now? Why are they even talking to me? Am I even worth socializing with?" I know that just sounds like a massive lack of self-esteem, but it's just how I've always viewed things.

Maybe I just have to learn to accept this in order to move on and let a relationship come when it comes, if it ever does. It's not like I'm incapable of caring about someone to that point. I know I am. I just usually put people through such an analysis that I end up having very high standards for letting my guard down. The emotional vulnerability of even trying to get to know someone is terrifying. It's my outlook on things that makes it so scary, and I can't just turn it off.

Wow. Just reading this post of mine from 2 1/2 years ago is baffling in itself. I'm such a different person from when I wrote that. It could be that going through a manic episode and being diagnosed with bipolar along with being put on the right medication changed my outlook completely, and I'm happy for it. I'm on my phone much more often than before texting people or on facebook talking to people. It scares me a little though that I've gotten so addicted to Facebook. It's not because of it being an internet socializing site, but because I just became that much more social. I've learned to accept that it's fine to lower my standards for a little while and talk to someone I might've disregarded. Who knows, I might learn something, enjoy their company or learn something about myself.

Is love worth the trouble? Why else would people keep putting themselves in the path of heartache over and over again? I've talked to a lot of girls over the last 2 years just to be rejected, went on dates that led nowhere, had a long distance relationship that ended sour and yet I still keep going after people. Why? Because the feeling of being intimate with another person is more intense, more human and more fulfilling than anything else. I ran into a woman yesterday I haven't seen since last year that's far off limits. When I stand next to her, it's like the world around me disappears. She sends my heart racing with such fleeting emotion. I feel like just hugging her all day because touching her feels like all of my problems whither away. Someone who makes you feel like that is what makes life worth living.

I'm dealing with my own problem right now. I tried getting involved with a 25 year old girl with 3 kids and an ex husband she lives with that started at my job 5 months ago. Tried the thing of having lunch with her, got to know her. She seemed cool, but the voice in my head kept going off with the red alerts for the obvious drama she has in her life. After a while, I gave up completely. A few weeks later, she started asking coworkers about me, made sexual comments and seemed more interested, so I tried again, against my judgment. Later on, I ended up texting her how I felt, and she said she didn't get how I could like her when I was mean to her. I talked to her again, she said she could see I liked her, but I didn't get a response to it. I called her, asked her, and she said she didn't know how to respond to it. I felt like I did something that was both honest and weak, and I've just stopped talking to her. I've just been brushing her off at work. I could've handled it better, but I had realized before that my interest in her was depleting, and her drama added to the reasons not to.

You live and learn.