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[ISTJ] ISTJs: Is love worth the trouble?

fishingdude

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I wasn't aware happiness was relevant to personal growth... I'd say that the challenges of loving someone shapes us in new and better ways, but clearly it is not for the risk-averse. If you're content with gaining nothing, then risk nothing.
Personal growth is great, I'm after the facts. I don't want to get into something I'll regret. I strive on making the smart move. I like to look back and say that was a good choice. We could be talking about investing in stocks. I don't want to buy something that is high risk in today's market. This is just me, stepping back, and asking myself what I really want out of life.

I like to know what's going to happen in life so I can adjust my goals accordingly. This includes whether or not to pursue a relationship. The sooner I decide, the better. If I plan on getting married some day and having kids, then I can start to prepare for that situation. For example, I'm planning on building a house. It would be nice to know how big to build it. If it's just going to be me, I won't need much. If the goal is family, then I'll build a bigger one.
 

Giggly

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What is the question again?

If you are already not pursuing women, then there is nothing for you to give up.

If you're asking if you should give up hope of a woman pursuing you, then that's not a bad idea since it's out of your control anyway and could give you peace of mind to not be waiting for it.

Just don't be closed off to it if it does end up happening.
 

raz

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I'm thinking my classes at college is a good place to start. It's like a new set of people each semester. I'll go through each one finding people worth talking to.
 

Giggly

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I'm thinking my classes at college is a good place to start. It's like a new set of people each semester. I'll go through each one finding people worth talking to.

Yes, college is the best place to meet potential romantic partners because no one is married and they're all looking to have fun.
 

Samvega

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1. Finish school – check
2. Finish college – check
3. Find a job related to my degree – check
4. Move up the career ladder to a satisfactory position – in progress
5. Build a house – currently saving money
6. Find a girlfriend – must finish previous steps before proceeding
7. Depends on how 6 goes

I don't remember the rings of Dante's Hell but are these them?

You have to want love more than the fear of having it. I'm driven by passion, I couldn't cohabitant or even date somebody without having that total desire for them, like I wanted to breath them in and consume them. I'm however like this in every aspect of my life.

You're an ST, life is easiest for you guys and you can find another ST and just be happy forever. It's a fact that every type including NTs are happier with a non-NT...

Love is tough man but don't get so wrapped up in it going just so. You're never going to be ready for the two things we were put here for, love and a baby.
 

Cimarron

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Sure, I appreciate the idea of love, romance, and all that. What I don’t appreciate is gambling on an emotion, losing, and then regretting it forever. It’s a high risk game and I’m wondering if it’s really worth it.

Why is society so desperately pressuring us into finding love? You can’t turn on the TV or listen to music without getting hammered by someone’s view on love. I know I certainly feel the pressure. The two least favorite questions I hate to hear are “When are you going to find a girlfriend?” and “Are you ever going to get married?”.

When I weigh being single vs. being in a relationship, I usually side with being single. The only thing that would make me think otherwise is finding the elusive/mythical soul mate, however you’re supposed do that.
Hey, I get where you're coming from.

fishingdude said:
What I would like to know from my fellow ISTJs is, is love worth the trouble? How have your relationships gone? Have you had many of them? If you’re married, are you satisfied? Did you make the moves or did your spouse have to initiate all the advances? Is it worth all the stress? Do you wish you were still single?
I'm not married, I'm currently single, and I'd probably like being in a relationship, but I don't mind being single.

My past relationships (about 3 of them, total) have never gone badly, just...boringly. I was never bored with the relationship, but eventually the girlfriend was. With one of them, it was because of long-distance. With my first girlfriend, it was because I was so nervous that now I was actually going out with her, I was afraid to lose her. We were both really shy, and didn't really risk doing anything romantic. So here, I can see where you say that "taking risks" might have saved a relationship.

With that first girlfriend, I told her I loved her (only admitted it as she was breaking up with me), and I did mean it. It felt like it. But what did I know about love? This was my first relationship. Since it didn't work out, I don't know whether it was really love, and basically I tried to redefine it in my mind.

Because I don't tend to take initiative in relationships, I'd probably be best with someone who starts things. I just never start things, in life, in general. Or am I just leaving the hard work to someone else? People will probably say I should find a middle ground.

I remember with my first girlfriend, my best friend called her and made me talk to her--I hated that he did that. With the second one, I thought I made it clear, but (her being an ENFP) she didn't take "I like you" to mean the same thing I did. Miscommunication. With the third one, a friend of hers asked if I liked her, and said she wouldn't tell her. So when I asked her out a week later, she said "I know"--her friend had told her. Haha, this is a funny list.

After these three, since then I've asked out a few more girls (about 3 more), all of whom have turned me down. I've basically come to the decision that it's not worth the effort to go out and get a relationship. It would be nice to have one--I guess, it would depend on a lot of things--but it's too much effort. The "emotional risk" doesn't factor in until you're deeper into the relationship, though of course one leads to the other. And if someone "came into my life", as the romantics put it, I wouldn't fight it. I'd probably be glad. Deep down, I'm a romantic, too. (I can tell from when I've been in a relationship, it's not non-existent.)

Now, having been in a relationship (any other ISTJs been in one?), I can tell you it does feel pretty good. You probably guessed that from the way society, pop-culture, and others have been telling you for years. But I don't think it's so important that this quest should rule my life. I don't know how to put it clearly...
 

fishingdude

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I'm not married, I'm currently single, and I'd probably like being in a relationship, but I don't mind being single.
This is my point exactly. I'm fine with my life the way it is. I know I'm not a risk taker and I'm fine with that too. And it's not neccessarily the risk taking that's a problem, it's the change. I'm not big on change unless I can predict the outcome and it's in my favor.

I believe if I truly wanted to be in a relationship, I could be. This need for order in my life has prevented me from doing so thus far. I like to have my bases covered before proceeding with anything, else I feel out of control. There's girls in my life that I could definitely go out with, I just don't feel it's the right time. I don't like to do things half-way and I just don't want to get into it unless I can give it my all. If I can't finish what I start, then it's all just a waist of time for everyone involved.

I look at love as an investment. And as I do with any investment, I research it thouroughly. I weigh the risks vs. the rewards. And that's all I'm doing in this thread.

Cimarron, Bella, and raz have put in their two cents worth and I appreciate it. I feel like the perspective of another ISTJ's going to make more sense to me than any other types point of view.
 

Spartacuss

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It's a fact that every type including NTs are happier with a non-NT...
Where did you get this fact? It's false for me.

Because I don't tend to take initiative in relationships, I'd probably be best with someone who starts things. I just never start things, in life, in general. Or am I just leaving the hard work to someone else? People will probably say I should find a middle ground.
Or else accept yourself and the probability that many great people will pass you by while you're stuck in passive gear.
 

swordpath

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If it isn't a life priority, then it it doesn't sound like it is worth the trouble. You seem to have answered your own question.
 

Cimarron

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If it isn't a life priority, then it it doesn't sound like it is worth the trouble. You seem to have answered your own question.
Yes, I was thinking about "priority", too. I say that a lot now: "Finding a girlfriend just isn't a high priority for me right now." Back in high school, I heard girls saying that all the time (to me, but also about other people), and I didn't quite get it. Now, I think I understand it a little better.

Sure, fishingdude, lots of people will think it's "strange" that you've put things in this priority, or that you're not trying to handle more of them (those things on your checklist) at one time, but what can you do about that?

-----------------------

By the way, the trouble with "starting" a relationship is not just with girls and girlfriends for me, but also with friends in general. It's obviously more difficult when you're attracted to a person, but I'm still nervous about how to make friends of either gender, and usually stick with the course of least action and "exposure".


And actually, something that ArbiterDewey and I discussed on another thread was that another way we could "deal" with this is by not investing so much "emotional energy" into a relationship. Meaning, just go out on dates, see what happens, and if something good happens, then that's great. If it builds into a good relationship, that's fine, but there's no need to force it.

In other words, set your expectations to zero. Not your standards, your expectations. This is probably not "healthy", but it is a way to "deal" with it. Some may also say that it's not really possible to get rid of most expectations...and that may be true. Anyway, there are other options besides this one.
 
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raz

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Didn't Doug get Patti Mayonnaise at some point?
 

fishingdude

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"Finding a girlfriend just isn't a high priority for me right now."
I couldn't have said it better. I wonder if it will ever be a high priority.

set your expectations to zero
Good advice, but this is definitely much easier said than done. As soon as something new in my life pops up, I analyze it to death. It's almost like every new thing that comes along is a problem that needs to be solved, so my brain just won't let it go until it comes up with some sort of solution. I can't just not think about it.
 

raz

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I couldn't have said it better. I wonder if it will ever be a high priority.


Good advice, but this is definitely much easier said than done. As soon as something new in my life pops up, I analyze it to death. It's almost like every new thing that comes along is a problem that needs to be solved, so my brain just won't let it go until it comes up with some sort of solution. I can't just not think about it.

So there ARE other people like me! I think it's the extraverted thinking. I have a certain situation going on right now that I think I'm over-analyzing, but I just won't rest until I find some closure on it.
 

Grayscale

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I need my ducks in a row.

how come?

seems like you're afraid of taking risks because you think you can control everything in your life. maybe you can control a lot of it, but unless your goals are extremely low, you are going to have to risk loss in order to gain... you probably already have to some degree without thinking about it.

you are stuck on the cost-benefit analysis of love... however, i do not think you understand what you stand to lose. what you stand to lose is not embarrassment from being turned down, nor is it hurt feelings from over-investing yourself in a relationship to soon. what you stand to gain is not casual affection or even sex, nor the social status of being coupled. only those who have loved deeply and then lost know, but you have never had a relationship.

you think you are making the right decision, but if you think it isn't worth it, then i say you dont have the experience to know what youre missing.
 

Cimarron

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That's always kind of a general tendency with me (us?), to keep as much as possible in my life under control.

Grayscale said:
you are stuck on the cost-benefit analysis of love... however, i do not think you understand what you stand to lose. what you stand to lose is not embarrassment from being turned down, nor is it hurt feelings from over-investing yourself in a relationship too soon. what you stand to gain is not casual affection or even sex, nor the social status of being coupled. only those who have loved deeply and then lost know, but you have never had a relationship.
It's not always that simple. As far as I can understand my own feelings, that's not the entire issue. Though that was only a part of your whole point.
 
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raz

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This is apparently a common trait with ISTJs. It's not like we're screwed up in the head. It's how we approach this aspect of our life. Maybe the ISTJs who have someone just got lucky. I just don't try anything unless I feel REALLY comfortable with the person or I'm just feeling really cocky. It usually ends up with a "I have a boyfriend" response.
 

Lady_X

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that's why you need an extravert guys...they'll pick you up..haha
 
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