[ISTJ] ISTJs: Is love worth the trouble?

[swordpath]

A lot of my problem is just that I don't understand when people are talking to you about their problems just to vent. I don't get it. Whenever someone complains to me, I either seek a solution, or tell them that their complaining doesn't help us accomplish what we're doing right now. Like, if a family member walks up to me with a problem, I'll think, "Ok, tell me everything about the problem. Let's get this over with quickly. I'll analyze the problem, and come to a logical conclusion that you probably won't like."

Just nod your head and say "Yeah" a lot, maybe throw in an "oh wow" or something on occasion. It's not too hard.

 

[Giggly]

Just nod your head and say "Yeah" a lot, maybe throw in an "oh wow" or something on occasion. It's not too hard.

^ lol truth.

 

[raz]

Raz, do you think you can socialize in real life more?

Hmm? (pardon the pun!) What do you mean? Like...try to socialize irl more often?

 

[Giggly]

Hmm? (pardon the pun!) What do you mean? Like...try to socialize irl more often?

Yes. It gets easier the more you do it, and practice makes perfect.

 

[raz]

Yes. It gets easier the more you do it, and practice makes perfect.

I just feel stupid doing that, "I must go out and socialize....because being myself isn't good enough."

 

[Giggly]

I just feel stupid doing that, "I must go out and socialize....because being myself isn't good enough."

But nobody's perfect*.

I'm cereal.

(*that means, we all have flaws to work on and it's not a big deal to do so)

 

[Virtual ghost]

But nobody's perfect*.

I'm cereal.

(*that means, we all have flaws to work on and it's not a big deal to do so)

Why do you think he should socialize more?

I am interested in a position/opinion of someone with strong Fe about this kinds of things.

 

[raz]

But nobody's perfect*.

I'm cereal.

(*that means, we all have flaws to work on and it's not a big deal to do so)

No, nobody is perfect. But how would you even define perfection? I'd say people seek perfection in certain aspects of their life. The perfection just comes about in a way different from the common perspective of perfection.

Enough of that. Now, this is just making me wonder. Why am I chasing the idea of love? The idea of random socializing or dating doesn't appeal to me. It's not an easy skill for me to acquire, hence I haven't acquired the ability to chat up random people enough for them to want to talk to me after our initial meeting. Why should I even care, though?

Is it really just so horrible for a person to be so immensely deliberative about it? I guess if I haven't had a relationship, and I don't find it a priority to seek people out on a daily basis outside of the oogling at attractive people, then there must be something wrong with me. I mean, other people view ISTJs as this secretive prude, apparently.

It just begs the question of, what am I doing and why am I doing it?

 

[ceecee]

Why should I even care, though?

I think that's your answer. If you can't find a reason within yourself don't bother. You would only waste your time, not to mention the injury you'd inflict on the person who would think they are the object of your affection.

 

[Lady_X]

It was sparked by a conversation with someone last night and what CaptainChick was talking about with BlueWing in ventrilo yesterday afternoon. Basically she was talking about how she would spend too much time alone, and then when she went to socialize, she had major problems. It was all about how you shouldn't isolate yourself too much, or you won't experience "love" or I guess life.

I guess, I've just tried going way out of my "normal" life to try to socialize based on what I know, or try to meet people, and usually it ended up with failure and me just feeling stupid. Right now, I'm on break between college semesters, and I am perfectly happy doing whatever the hell I want, instead of thinking there's something wrong with me for not out trying to find random people to talk to in real life that I really don't care about.

I mean, all I do is pretty much read, screw around on my computer, exercise, work or go to school. I really like school because it does supply socializing but in controlled doses. Maybe I'll end college with no romantic headway. Maybe I'll meet someone amazing in 2 months.

To me, someone I can quickly fall for is a person that proves themselves as a reliable partner for my practical duties and pursuits. It could be explained as just a partner in crime. For relationships, it's weird. It's like, I start getting to know someone, and then one day, a light turns on, and just decide, "Hey, I really do like this person" and then I just start treating them in a way that I deem reserved for those sorts of people. I want someone, who, when I look at them, it's like everything around them is dark and there's a spotlight on just them. I want the syncronicity of having a connection with another person, the admiration of another person's sharp intellect.

A lot of my problem is just that I don't understand when people are talking to you about their problems just to vent. I don't get it. Whenever someone complains to me, I either seek a solution, or tell them that their complaining doesn't help us accomplish what we're doing right now. Like, if a family member walks up to me with a problem, I'll think, "Ok, tell me everything about the problem. Let's get this over with quickly. I'll analyze the problem, and come to a logical conclusion that you probably won't like."

i know...you just don't get why people discuss things that aren't immediately relevant or have nothing to do with the current situation but other people do this quite a lot just to share what they are thinking about...maybe you could just get in the habit of asking...are you just venting or do you want my advice? I'm pretty sure girls do this a lot more then guys do too...we do this with each other and most of the time we're just venting...if we're not we'll say...what should i do?

and about the other part...i can't really help so much. i think everyone wants that and sometimes it does happen that way but a lot of times what you are attracted to isn't what you really want or need...so that sparkly girl that you notice across the room...may be the exact opposite of the life partner you want so maybe pay more attention to the chicks without the spotlights.??

that was my attempt at helping...sorry if it failed miserably.

 

[raz]

i know...you just don't get why people discuss things that aren't immediately relevant or have nothing to do with the current situation but other people do this quite a lot just to share what they are thinking about...maybe you could just get in the habit of asking...are you just venting or do you want my advice? I'm pretty sure girls do this a lot more then guys do too...we do this with each other and most of the time we're just venting...if we're not we'll say...what should i do?

and about the other part...i can't really help so much. i think everyone wants that and sometimes it does happen that way but a lot of times what you are attracted to isn't what you really want or need...so that sparkly girl that you notice across the room...may be the exact opposite of the life partner you want so maybe pay more attention to the chicks without the spotlights.??

that was my attempt at helping...sorry if it failed miserably.

So, then, it's ok to ask people at the beginning of a conversation, "To what degree do you want me to take you seriously?"

 

[Lady_X]

is that how you translated what i said? haha...cuz no...not really...ideally you should wait until after they're finished talking and then ask if they want your advice or are they just venting....and just because they are venting doesn't mean they're not serious...it may be something that's really upsetting them and they're either looking for empathy or support in some way...so...either say...i'm so sorry...that sucks! or wow what jerks or something like that...or maybe you would be better at pointing out a superior logical outcome that will come from it that will make them feel better...you know?

 

[raz]

Well, if I try to point out a logical solution, I feel like I'm taking them "seriously." To do anything other than that, just implies to me that I'm not taking them seriously. Does that make sense? Wow. So, I'm more like....humoring them? Doesn't that sound like we're both wasting our time? Can I pay for an appointment to a therapist for them? ^_^

 

[Recoleta]

Why am I chasing the idea of love? The idea of random socializing or dating doesn't appeal to me. It's not an easy skill for me to acquire, hence I haven't acquired the ability to chat up random people enough for them to want to talk to me after our initial meeting. Why should I even care, though?

I think you care and are chasing the idea of love because you realize something that other people enjoy is missing (to an extent) in your life. As the saying goes, "No man is an island."

The second part of your above statment brings you back to something you previously said:

A lot of my problem is just that I don't understand when people are talking to you about their problems just to vent. I don't get it. Whenever someone complains to me, I either seek a solution, or tell them that their complaining doesn't help us accomplish what we're doing right now. -- I'll analyze the problem, and come to a logical conclusion that you probably won't like.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, because that's not my intention, but you came to this thread with your own problem/complaint and others are here giving you advice...and yet you're not liking the suggestions people have come up with. Are you just coming to vent, or do you actually want advice that you probably won't like? All types have a different and valid perspective.

IMO, if you really want to get to know people, you're going to have to lower your expectations. I'm not telling you to lower your standards, but don't expect things to be magnificent from the beginning. Relationships don't just happen spontaneously -- they are the result of two people putting in time and effort. Some happen more naturally, others don't.

Is it really just so horrible for a person to be so immensely deliberative about it? I guess if I haven't had a relationship, and I don't find it a priority to seek people out on a daily basis outside of the oogling at attractive people, then there must be something wrong with me. I mean, other people view ISTJs as this secretive prude, apparently.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you...like most ISTJs you don't see dating or friendship as something to do to simply to fill up your time. If you're going to be friends or have a relationship with someone then it needs to be built on a solid foundation that will last. You also have to remember that ISTJs and other introverts are not the only people who have walls up around them. To a certain extent, everyone has walls and likely the same insecurities that you have. It takes time and exposure for those walls to begin to come down as you become more comfortable with one another. If you write people off and judge too quickly you're only doing a disservice to the both of you. Sometimes you have to get through the petty small talk as the people are feeling you out before they are willing to jump into substantial, deeper conversations with you.

Some suggestions that have helped me:

-Do activities with people in the beginning -- For me, conversation comes so much more naturally if I'm working on something, or walking, or doing anything that doesn't focus solely on the other person. Group projects for school are the perfect opportunity to socialize with people in your classes. Most extroverts in the group will get off task anyway. Just go with the flow, become engaged in their off-topic conversation, and go against your natural impulse to keep everyone on task. Socializing in college also becomes a lot easier once you're into your major classes.

-Find people who have common interests. I was lucky, I studied abroad...it made learning to socialize so much easier. I was stuck with the same 15 people for 3 months of my life...you realize pretty quickly that you either learn to get along, you navigate a foreign country alone (not recommended), or you kill one another -- socializing seemed like the best option. People can be suprisingly wonderful once you open up. Yes, vulnerability sucks, and it's terrifying...and yet, the risk is worth it if you choose quality people.

- In finding people with common interests try Use the Internet to get off the Internet! - Meetup.com, or if you'd rather find a date, then you could always try online dating. Use a site like match.com that you actually have to pay for -- that way you weed out a lot of people simply because people who are paying will likely take it more seriously. Then, you can safely meet people online, and by the time you finally decide on someone to meet you know you already have stuff in common.

Yes. It gets easier the more you do it, and practice makes perfect.

She speaks the truth.

 

[swordpath]

I just feel stupid doing that, "I must go out and socialize....because being myself isn't good enough."

If you want to be a socializer, socialize. If not, then don't. It's like the answer to this thread. If it's a priority of yours, then sure. If not, I'd say no.

 

[raz]

I think you care and are chasing the idea of love because you realize something that other people enjoy is missing (to an extent) in your life. As the saying goes, "No man is an island."

Doesn't that sound like conformity, though?

Sorry if this sounds harsh, because that's not my intention, but you came to this thread with your own problem/complaint and others are here giving you advice...and yet you're not liking the suggestions people have come up with. Are you just coming to vent, or do you actually want advice that you probably won't like? All types have a different and valid perspective.

It's not like I'm looking for an instant relationship, or something completely...uhh, I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out how to integrate the idea of "love" into the life of someone who doesn't really want to seek it out intentionally.

Some suggestions that have helped me:

-Do activities with people in the beginning -- For me, conversation comes so much more naturally if I'm working on something, or walking, or doing anything that doesn't focus solely on the other person. Group projects for school are the perfect opportunity to socialize with people in your classes. Most extroverts in the group will get off task anyway. Just go with the flow, become engaged in their off-topic conversation, and go against your natural impulse to keep everyone on task. Socializing in college also becomes a lot easier once you're into your major classes.

-Find people who have common interests. I was lucky, I studied abroad...it made learning to socialize so much easier. I was stuck with the same 15 people for 3 months of my life...you realize pretty quickly that you either learn to get along, you navigate a foreign country alone (not recommended), or you kill one another -- socializing seemed like the best option. People can be suprisingly wonderful once you open up. Yes, vulnerability sucks, and it's terrifying...and yet, the risk is worth it if you choose quality people.

- In finding people with common interests try Use the Internet to get off the Internet! - Meetup.com, or if you'd rather find a date, then you could always try online dating. Use a site like match.com that you actually have to pay for -- that way you weed out a lot of people simply because people who are paying will likely take it more seriously. Then, you can safely meet people online, and by the time you finally decide on someone to meet you know you already have stuff in common.

Again, intentionally looking for friends or girlfriends or friends with benefits or one night stands or whatever term you want to use just seems to me like banging my head against a wall. I'd rather just look to do something I'm interested in that I'd do if I weren't "looking for a relationship", and hope that maybe I'd find someone in the process. You know, ignore it until it comes!

 

[Lady_X]

Well, if I try to point out a logical solution, I feel like I'm taking them "seriously." To do anything other than that, just implies to me that I'm not taking them seriously. Does that make sense? Wow. So, I'm more like....humoring them? Doesn't that sound like we're both wasting our time? Can I pay for an appointment to a therapist for them? ^_^

well yeah...and i'm saying you should take then seriously regardless if they're venting or they want advice...or if it's family and it really bothers you just say...you know i'm awful at this...maybe talk to...some other family member about it...idk...was just trying to help...because that sort of give and take is important when relating to people and you either care to cultivate it or you don't.

 

[Recoleta]

Doesn't that sound like conformity, though?

In what way? Is the idea of having friends or loving someone conformity?

It's not like I'm looking for an instant relationship, or something completely...uhh, I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out how to integrate the idea of "love" into the life of someone who doesn't really want to seek it out intentionally.

I'd rather just look to do something I'm interested in that I'd do if I weren't "looking for a relationship", and hope that maybe I'd find someone in the process. You know, ignore it until it comes!

Well, you just said earlier that:

I mean, all I do is pretty much read, screw around on my computer, exercise, work or go to school.

So, how many of those activities involve people other than yourself? Besides work and school you seem pretty isolated unless you go to a gym and work out. In order to meet other people in your natural life, your natural life needs to consist of other people actually being around. That's the only reason I gave the suggestions -- to get other people with the same interests integrated into your natural activities. For me, I've learned that I can't always rely on others to "find me" and pull me out of my isolation and aloofness. Sometimes you have to be proactive about something and seek out company if you want it. The real question you have to ask yourself, like Beat and ceecee already said is, "Do you want it?"

 

[Lady_X]

yeah...i agree...you either want to have good relations with other people or not...and just like any goal you set for yourself...you will learn how to do it if you decide it's a worthwhile goal.

so...step one...put it on your to do list...

step 2...figure out appropriate ways to communicate

step 3...set appropriate expectations or expect to be disappointed.

this is my attempt at speaking your language...really not trying to be shitty...okay.

 

[MacGuffin]

All my life, I've always been viewed by other people as the practical and impersonal person. I've always had such major difficulty seeing the softer and looser side of things. The amount of people in my life who don't say something to me about my rigidity or intensity is such an insignificant number compared to the amount of friends and acquaintances I've made over the course of my life. Whenever I'm with a group of people, and the conversation turns away from impersonal business to your personal life, it makes me wildly uncomfortable.

That's why I've never really gotten that close to a lot of people. Getting into a conversation about things like relationships, sex, romance, and really just personal goals has always left me bewildered. It's really just that, I feel like I always come off to other people as the person that's strictly business. I've always felt like it was a major problem, because it was like I couldn't relate to other people.

My ISTJ wife is a lot like that. She is EXTREMELY private, and does not like people knowing much about her. Myself, on the other hand, I am... very much not that. I don't care who knows.

The difference between you and her is she can relate to other people, but chooses not to. When you are one of the people she cares about she can open up to the other person. You are part of the inner circle.

The only problem is when life gets to be a bit much and the people she loves/cares for stop being in the inner circle, and the inner circle only consists of herself. Is that possibly what is going on with you? Did you ever have a close relationship? A parent? Sibling? Best friend?