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[MBTI General] How is it possible to be Enneagram 4/INTJ?

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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Jul 21, 2008
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4w5
I finally went and took an enneagram test and it came back as 4, with the next highest being a 5. Reading through the descriptions, I related very well with both of them, and agree that the 4 is probably a bit more apt.

So how is it that an INTJ who is supposedly the 'least likely to express emotion' is the 'Romantic' Hyper-sensitive feeling enneagram type?

Reading through both the 4 and 5 description I recall thinking 'The 4 is a good way to describe the emotional mess inside, but the 5 is what I try to use to deal with the rest of the world'.

Something about this just screams 'how is this possible?'

Can anyone give me some insight as to how the enneagram works in conjunction with the MBTI type?

Maybe this doesnt belong under the NT thread, but I thought maybe the other NT's might be able to shed some light.
 

BlackOp

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Aug 18, 2008
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211
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intj
Because these tests are somewhat generic.... I am not like the majority of intjs on this forum as I am probably 10 to 15 years older.

I learned to play ENTJ as I own my own company. I've had to deal with contract negotiations, concert promoters, club owners, pampered artists and pretty much every type of dreg the entertainment industry has to offer. You have to muscle to get your way....or get steamrolled. I can now toggle between the two on command...which I couldnt have done at 25. Intj is my method of creativity and entj is my method of business. Playing entj drains me pretty hard though......very unnatural to be that overtly demanding of others.


So it could make perfect sense in relation to where you are in your life and your individual experiences.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
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4w5
I think any type can be a 4.

I am a type 4 ENFP and that is kinda rare I think.

But if you are a unique-freak due to some extenuating circumstances and you are also a hardcore romantic at heart, regardless of your MBTI type, you will be a 4.

:)
 

Dansker

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Apr 23, 2007
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341
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INTP
MBTI and enneagram measure different things. MBTI tends to look at behaviour preferences, where as enneagram looks at motivations.

While there are some MBTI and enneagram pairs that seem more popular than others, any MBTI type can have any enneagram type.
 

Lymitra

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Dec 27, 2007
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8
Anything is possible. ;)

But more specifically, I think that 4 is the INTJ's inner fire. It's been a while since I've looked at the Enneagram, so forgive me if the details are wrong. From what I remember, I identified with the presence of strong emotions and hyper-sensitivity; however, actually expressing these emotions was what I had the most difficulty with (low Fe).

I think there are some correlations between the Enneagram and MBTI and the fact that you are a certain MBTI type makes it more likely to be certain Enneagram types, but in reality, I think any combinations of MBTI/Enneagram are possible.
 

Kora

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Jul 29, 2008
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477
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ENTP
You can be a 4w5. The Bohemian, if I'm not wrong.

There's always a correlation, but every individual is... well, an individual.
 

Mondo

Welcome to Sunnyside
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EsTP
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6w7
A 4 would make for a very emo INTJ.. :cry:--> (emo INTJ)
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Actually, this page:

Type Correlations

...correlates Enneagram 4 with Ni, so there you go!

I seem to recall a site claiming that the majority of INTJs were Threes, followed by Fives and Fours, as well. Most of the INTJs on this board are Fives, but it stands to reason that the high-metabolism world-dominator INTJ Threes wouldn't be spending their time on this sort of thing.
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
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5w6
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so/sx
I think any type can be a 4.

I am a type 4 ENFP and that is kinda rare I think.

But if you are a unique-freak due to some extenuating circumstances and you are also a hardcore romantic at heart, regardless of your MBTI type, you will be a 4.

:)

Yeah any type can be anything. You can both be type 4 and the type that contradicts it. You know, just like you can both be F and T at the same time. Extrovert and Introvert. Just as truly you can both run fast and slow simultaneously as well as sit in the chair and not sit in the chair at the same time!

Actually, this page:

Type Correlations

...correlates Enneagram 4 with Ni, so there you go!

I seem to recall a site claiming that the majority of INTJs were Threes, followed by Fives and Fours, as well. Most of the INTJs on this board are Fives, but it stands to reason that the high-metabolism world-dominator INTJ Threes wouldn't be spending their time on this sort of thing.



That makes no sense at all. Ni=4?

4 is the Idealist romantic. One who seeks to be unique. Fi is the closest match for this. The Ni quest for identity is very different. It merely seeks to have a vision. It does not have this intensely personal or sentimental purpose as Enneagram 4 does.
 

scantilyclad

almost nekkid
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Jul 31, 2007
Messages
2,106
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
i dont see how Fi correlates with 6.
 

littlemissgiggles

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Apr 4, 2008
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entj
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6
IIRC, Type 4s are concerned with wanting a unique identity. They feel like they're different from everyone else. It's certainly possible for an INTJ to have this mindset. I know ISFJ, INFJ, and INFP type 4s. Introversion may be the commonality between them.

Type 6 would probably be associated with Fe because they need outside approval. 6s often rely on outside sources to determine how they feel about something, so Fi is out of the question. A dom. Fi person would know *exactly* how they feel.

Enneagram probably has more to do with early life or birth order or nurture rather than inherent personality type. It's possible to look at your enneagram type and trace your motivations back to some defining life moment(s).
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
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14,081
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Yin
Enneagram
One
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sx/sp
Enneagram has more to do with philosophies, preferences, and motives. The MBTI is more about how your mind functions. The two are fairly different, so they don'y have to overlap much.

INTJs most tend to be 5s. 4s Are more moody than 5s, but they are similarly avoidant, so it's really not a terrible stretch for an INTJ to be a 4 instead of a 5.
 
Last edited:

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
INTJ 4??

Same as every other INTJ I'd surmise. As in, different to every other INTJ. I've yet to meet two people of the same type who are the same, some noticeably so.

My SO still remembers the confusion she was met with when she described herself as a shy ESTP. Many said "but you're an extrovert".

Remember that the MBTI only covers how you go about thinking and not the results. The behaviours listed TEND to correlate with those methods but don't have to.

Oh and in specific INTJ 4s are swines to type... esp if they're developed...
:steam:
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
I finally went and took an enneagram test and it came back as 4, with the next highest being a 5. Reading through the descriptions, I related very well with both of them, and agree that the 4 is probably a bit more apt.

So how is it that an INTJ who is supposedly the 'least likely to express emotion' is the 'Romantic' Hyper-sensitive feeling enneagram type?

Reading through both the 4 and 5 description I recall thinking 'The 4 is a good way to describe the emotional mess inside, but the 5 is what I try to use to deal with the rest of the world'.

Something about this just screams 'how is this possible?'

Can anyone give me some insight as to how the enneagram works in conjunction with the MBTI type?

Maybe this doesnt belong under the NT thread, but I thought maybe the other NT's might be able to shed some light.
I am almost 100% sure I am an INTJ 4, so I believe it can happen.
As some others have already said, enneagram talks about motivations.
I think somebody's enneagram can skew your results when you're trying to Type another person.
Just look at all the different KINDS of INTPs there are on this board. Some are polite. Some are in your face. I think the enneagram might have a lot to do with the differences we observe among people of the same type.
 

silversun

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Aug 24, 2008
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INTJ
I'm definitely an INTJ and a 4.
I've always felt I'm different from others. I'm also very romantic -- in thoughts and ideologies, in what I think about, it's where my ideas stem from. Hard to explain! Part of me is sensitive inside. It hurts knowing that I'm somewhat undesirable to men. It's hard for me to be an INTJ and feel this way deep down. Especially because it contracts my mindset that I'm unique. But one part of me knows how to deal with these thoughts and I just sort of suppress them. If someone were to say something hurtful to me I would act on the outside that I don't care, but part of me inside would be very upset (heart racing, that sort of feeling). There were times when I had emotional outbursts at home, especially when I was growing up.
 

Misty_Mountain_Rose

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4w5
I'm definitely an INTJ and a 4.
I've always felt I'm different from others. I'm also very romantic -- in thoughts and ideologies, in what I think about, it's where my ideas stem from. Hard to explain! Part of me is sensitive inside. It hurts knowing that I'm somewhat undesirable to men. It's hard for me to be an INTJ and feel this way deep down. Especially because it contracts my mindset that I'm unique. But one part of me knows how to deal with these thoughts and I just sort of suppress them. If someone were to say something hurtful to me I would act on the outside that I don't care, but part of me inside would be very upset (heart racing, that sort of feeling). There were times when I had emotional outbursts at home, especially when I was growing up.

This is sort of like me... its hard to explain.

I was told by an ENFJ friend that I go to great lengths to separate myself from the pack, to an almost undesirable level in his mind. He was the one that constantly harassed me for not caring what others thought of me (IE Not going tanning!?!) and hated when I would ask him WHY he cared so much about what people thought of him.

I definately feel the duality that it talked about, striving to be unique but feeling sad about being separated from the rest of the world because of it. Its a kind of lose-lose situation.

Add to that the INTJ independent mind and the lack of respect for authority and you get a really 'weird' person. Where INTJ's are weird, I guess the Enneagram 4 only adds to it because I DELIBERATELY try to be different.

This is really hard to put into words.

I kind of live in this intense, inner world full of exploited emotions, where I spend a lot of time 'phsychologizing' myself, digging deep to find the hidden reasons for my actions and decisions. I'll bring myself to tears sometimes getting lost in this self-exploration... and then I dig my way out of it with logic and reason, systematically filing all of the feelings away and neatly categorizing them, and then writing clever poetry about it.

Each time this happens, I feel like I've learned something else about myself, and I feel a little bit more calm and content. After years of doing this I find that it happens less and less, and I'd say I'm currently pretty happy with my life all in all.

The only thing that remains as a constant thorn is the feeling of 'loneliness' and separation from the rest of the world that I can't seem to shake... yet I continue to reject anything to do with 'pop culture'. I'm getting better in this arena too though, IE listening to more modern music, watching shows that people talk about, etc. In years before, I would have avoided them like the plague because 'everyone else was doing it'.
 

INTJMom

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...
The only thing that remains as a constant thorn is the feeling of 'loneliness' and separation from the rest of the world that I can't seem to shake... yet I continue to reject anything to do with 'pop culture'. I'm getting better in this arena too though, IE listening to more modern music, watching shows that people talk about, etc. In years before, I would have avoided them like the plague because 'everyone else was doing it'.
I related to everything you said. I too, began to do things that everyone else was doing in order to be more acceptable. It's better than being lonely forever, right? I certainly started out as a non-conformist, but I began to see the value of not being such a weirdo.
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
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1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
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so/sp
Wouldn't it be more satisfying to seek out like-minded individuals you can discuss in a frank and open manner with rather than shoehorning yourself into a mold you think maybe these quote-unquote normal people will accept?
 
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