[MBTI General] INTP + ESTJ

[weminuche]

Maybe in the corporate world [in which case, as an INTP, what the hell are you doing in that world in the first place] but socially, they're tons of fun and great peoples.

One of my employees is an ESTJ, sales guy, perfect type for that. We get along great, fun, funny, great people person and energetic. He can also quickly round up a bunch of girls just about anywhere. I had him take the test at personality pages. He is 93% E.

Conflict resolution is where things can get ugly, especially with an SO or spouse.

ESTJ :steam: --> INTP

Not a prob in this case bec if he pisses me off, I can just fire his ass, and he knows it.

 

[INA]

Originally Posted by Unique View Post
INTP + ESTJ... I've only got one question

Why?

Because shewas hot as hell and loads of easygoing fun.....for about a year or two. Not likely to ever go there again though!

I see you went into this after much reflection and with eyes wide open. How INTP of you.
[hopes no children are involved]

 

[weminuche]

I see you went into this after much reflection and with eyes wide open. How INTP of you.
[hopes no children are involved]

INTP males are still males, and the other smaller head gets a vote too....I think mine is an ESFP.

The point of that statement was specifically to illustrate that it was not a very smart or well thought out move, but it's a mistake I'd be willing to bet that damn near every guy of any type has made.

Also, those 1-2 yrs were about 15 yrs ago. I've matured a bit since then.

 

[weminuche]

Yup that's it. I have decided that my little head is a poorly balanced ESFP.

Portrait of an ESFP

ESFP is definitely a spontaneous, optimistic individual. They love to have fun. If the ESFP has not developed their Thinking side by giving consideration to rational thought processing, they tend to become over-indulgent, and place more importance on immediate sensation and gratification than on their duties and obligations. They may also avoid looking at long-term consequences of their actions.

For the ESFP, the entire world is a stage. They love to be the center of attention and perform for people. They're constantly putting on a show for others to entertain them and make them happy. They enjoy stimulating other people's senses, and are extremely good at it. They would love nothing more than for life to be a continual party, in which they play the role of the fun-loving host.

 

[INA]

The point of that statement was specifically to illustrate that it was not a very smart or well thought out move, but it's a mistake I'd be willing to bet that damn near every guy of any type has made.

I doubt every guy gets married to a largely incompatible person because she was hawt and fun. Sounds reckless to me. Otherwise, yes - everybody - male or female - makes "not very smart or well thought out" moves at some point.

 

[weminuche]

I doubt every guy gets married to a largely incompatible person because she was hawt and fun. Sounds reckless to me.

You are assuming an awful lot. That was what BROUGHT us together only.

We actually dated for about 7 yrs before we got married. Other than a lot of difficulty resolving conflicts....and there weren't many of those pre-marriage ....we got along well, usually enjoyed each others company and didnt have any deal-breaker incompatibility issues.

Then..... I decided to start my own business, and she refused to support the idea, no matter what I said or how I explained it and despite the fact that she knew absolutely nothing about the product or market for it. She was convinced it would never make much money, and that was reason enough for her. She was wrong, but she will never admit it nor will she ever forgive me for doing it over her objections.

In protest, she quit her $100K+/yr job and decided to be a stay at home mom....she is now financing her new-found obsession with competing with the Jones's materially, and trying to climb to the top of the area social ladder using money from "the stupid business thing" I started.

The conflict resolution problem made us both miserable after a couple years of marriage.... she became much more determined to mold me into what she thought I should be...creating a lot of conflict. In spite of that, I was happy enough to stay with her forever. Her not supporting me in my business, and me not supporting her social climber materialistic crusade drove us apart. We now have some deal breaker incompatibility issues. Only a couple, but that's all it takes.

 

[INA]

You are assuming an awful lot. That was what BROUGHT us together only.

Well now - you said . . . So you liked her enough for marriage beyond her hotness and fun times. That makes more sense.

We actually dated for about 7 yrs before we got married. Other than a lot of difficulty resolving conflicts....and there weren't many of those pre-marriage ....we got along well, usually enjoyed each others company and didnt have any deal-breaker incompatibility issues.

Then..... I decided to start my own business, and she refused to support the idea, no matter what I said or how I explained it and despite the fact that she knew absolutely nothing about the product or market for it. She was convinced it would never make much money, and that was reason enough for her. She was wrong, but she will never admit it nor will she ever forgive me for doing it over her objections.

In protest, she quit her $100K+/yr job and decided to be a stay at home mom....she is now financing her new-found obsession with competing with the Jones's materially, and trying to climb to the top of the area social ladder using money from "the stupid business thing" I started.

The conflict resolution problem made us both miserable after a couple years of marriage.... she became much more determined to mold me into what she thought I should be...creating a lot of conflict. In spite of that, I was happy enough to stay with her forever. Her not supporting me in my business, and me not supporting her social climber materialistic crusade drove us apart. We now have some deal breaker incompatibility issues. Only a couple, but that's all it takes.

Whoa. 7 years should have given you lots of time for reflection - assuming you reflected with the right head, of course . People who develop whole other personalities after you're already tied to them baffle me.

Sometimes I wonder if assuming works better in the long run . . . assuming a certain conflict style will not resolve and working on the basis of the worst case scenario, rather than giving the person the benefit of the doubt that they'll mature into proper conflict resolution later.

 

[weminuche]

In my relationships with INTPs, they don't annoy me until I begin to annoy them, and their seemingly disproportionate reaction to me is what drives me nuts. So... yeah.

This sounds familiar. For me one of the greatest gifts you can give someone is leeway to be themselves. I see trying to get someone to be the way you want them to be, or do what you want them to do as selfish.

I end up overlooking a lot of what my ESTJ partner does that I dont like and never communicating it to her, since to me it would be kinda selfish and arrogant to do so. Because of that, when she jumps my ass about something I see as minor, I can get angry and defensive pretty quick.

Obviously good communication is lacking on both sides, but maybe that will help you understand the other side a bit.

 

[weminuche]

rather than giving the person the benefit of the doubt that they'll mature into proper conflict resolution later.

That is no doubt the prudent thing to do. When you are heavily invested in the relationship, still attracted to them and cursed by your INTP need to PROVE something empirically (which of course is very hard to do with people matters) before feeling good about a huge decision, it is easy to find reasonable doubt and some glimmer of hope and delude yourself.

People who develop whole other personalities after you're already tied to them baffle me.

I think in this case anyway, it isnt so much a whole new personality as much as letting some portion/s of your personality takeover and run away unbridled.....where they were previously tempered and held in check to a more healthy balanced level.

 

[INA]

That is no doubt the prudent thing to do. When you are heavily invested in the relationship, still attracted to them and cursed by your INTP need to PROVE something empirically (which of course is very hard to do with people matters) before feeling good about a huge decision, it is easy to find reasonable doubt and some glimmer of hope and delude yourself.

tell me about it.

I think in this case anyway, it isnt so much a whole new personality as much as letting some portion/s of your personality takeover and run away unbridled.....where they were previously tempered and held in check to a more healthy balanced level.

Aha! I thought so. I'm skeptical when I hear about people changing after marriage, because I think they can only evolve so much from the starting point - barring a traumatic event or brain injury. Quite possibly her traits were either tamed to allow her to make a good impression or were observed but played down optimistically because too much was invested already, like you described up top.
teh institution

 

[weminuche]

Quite possibly her traits were either tamed to allow her to make a good impression or were observed but played down optimistically because too much was invested already, like you described up top.

A bit of both no doubt. I am....well maybe was....OK with some orientation towards social status in my girl. I could care less, but do recognize that there is some practical value in it, and if it's gonna happen, it's gonna have to come from her.

For me though, I believe very strongly that personal and family values and goals must come first and decisions and actions should be based on those and be independent of what someone outside the family or society in general is going to think.

In hindsight, that also means that anyone who has strong personal values regarding what everyone else thinks and cares deeply about what is normal/excepted/appropriate is not a good match for me. So an ESTJ....especially an unbalanced one....is likely not a good match for me.

Live and learn I guess.

 

[kathara]

Hmm, I am a bit confused. I know an ESTJ, but he is lacking all that "do it my way" attitude, so much so that it pisses me off (he always lets me chose the movie, or where to eat, or where to go next, which is a bit of overload for my P). That makes me wonder of that is the real him, or if he is more or less playing me (since he knows how much I hate being told what to do).

 

[chegra]

He has a T, which can would tell him, not to try to control you.
My J is subordinate to my T, not the other way around.

 

[skyler]

I'm probably an INTP (some tests it comes out as INTJ even sometimes INFJ). My P vs. J is pretty evenly balanced (like 52% to 48%). By a fluke of a dating site and "fun" tests I found out that the guy I just started dating is ESTJ. After reading the basic information about the type it makes sense and I can see it probably describes him pretty well.

I've heard both the advice that this combination is great and that it's from hell. So far, for me, it seems pretty great but it's a new thing and we both share a lot of similar values. Some of it is that he's traditional in some ways and I've come back around to some traditional values after seeing some things that didn't work for me so well. Not that we agree for exactly the same reasons, but what we agree on isn't always so far off and we complement each other in some personality ways. Did I mention I like this guy a whole lot?

But now for the comical and or slightly off kilter things:

For the first date he invited me to a fairly expensive event I probably would have never gone to on my own. It was sweet, but he didn't let me know far enough in advance so I already had plans. He claimed he'd planned it and someone else fell through so he had an extra ticket (and I'm internally wondering if this was true or he planned it for me). I felt bad since I would've loved to have gone and I felt maybe he took it personally (though he never has mentioned it negatively).

He also does some subtle name dropping kinds of things which I think I was supposed to be impressed by, but I just wasn't. Until I figured it out a bit more, my responses have been generally nonplussed. I just don't care all that much about status and status symbols. I care about him, not his stuff or who he knows. If he feels proud of his efforts, his hard work, and what he's accomplished I can genuinely care about that, but I have a hard time caring about the trappings.

After some Google stalking and digging up information, he's actually being pretty modest about his accomplishments. He's subtle about the name-dropping things I mentioned above. I can see he wants people to appreciate him and his successes, but he doesn't want to come off the wrong way. Actually, knowing more about him I feel quite out of my league . . . and it makes me a little insecure. While I'm moderately successful, I'm not going to impress him with it. Maybe the same is true in reverse, I'm not going to be particularly impressed with his status symbols, so maybe we're even.

Does this seem like a pretty typical scenario? Anything I should look for and expect from the situation?

 

[great_bay]

I think ESTJ's guys are attractive types. They're suppose to be great match because their Te lines up with our Ti. I'm attractive to ESTJ's extroverted thinking. I like it when they use it. I used to have crushes on ESTJ guys when I was in high-school. I always thought ESTJ's were one of the few S types that can care about my functions since ours functions are complementary.

ESTJ- Te-Si-Ne-Fi
INTP- Ti-Ne-Si-Fe

 

[Frosty]

ESTJs are the best. At least until tomorrow when I change my type.

 

[great_bay]

ESTJ's please have me.