[ENTP] ENTPs: Do you make up stuff for no reason?

[ZiL]

I don't really do this, but I can relate to what substitute was saying about being a "utility person" for friends. I'm good at catering to people. Now, sometimes when I'm talking, I might exaggerate something, but it's usually meant in a humorous way. Others might assume I'm being serious, but I'm probably not. If I'm talking about facts that I'm not sure about, though, I always back it up with "but I'm not positive about that." I'm too paranoid that it will come back to get me, and there's nothing I hate more than looking incompetent after acting confident.

Strangely enough, the biggest compusive liar I've ever known is an ISTJ friend of mine.

 

[Synarch]

It's like "I don't know" isn't in an ENTP's vocabulary, but reading these posts makes me think I'm just not looking at the big picture instead of seeing lots of bullshit, lol.

INTJ's think they see everything. That's their problem. They are so damn certain they have the answers. ENTP's know they don't but they like to try to know and they like to see what works. Big picture thinking, maybe. But, it's more about wanting something more from life than answers.

 

[Metamorphosis]

INTJ's think they see everything. That's their problem. They are so damn certain they have the answers.

Only about a small number of things. At least, in my case.

ENTP's know they don't but they like to try to know and they like to see what works. Big picture thinking, maybe. But, it's more about wanting something more from life than answers.

Do you mean that we only want answers? Some INTJ's may think that, but its just a means to an end.

 

[substitute]

I might exaggerate something, but it's usually meant in a humorous way. Others might assume I'm being serious, but I'm probably not.

This often turns out to be at the root of enormous misunderstandings between myself and many J's generally... I've been with a group of people and laughing and joking and just being full of shit in a tongue in cheek way, everyone else was aware I was pissing about and stuff, but then over a period of time one person's got increasingly pissy with me, only for it to turn out to be over the fact that wayyy back when, they thought something I said was prejudiced/retarded/narrow-minded or whatever; they'd actually thought I meant what I'd said and somehow the humorous/ironic undercurrents that everyone else caught, went over their head and they just took offence.

I wonder with such people, whether they just need to be returned to the factory for their humour chip to be adjusted... or maybe it's just a thing J's can be prone to, I guess if your perception is oriented inwards then there's always a chance you're going to miss vital external cues and clues and misjudge situations...

However it sometimes happens that even when I explain that I was only kidding, the best they can do for an apology for blatantly judging me and treating me like crap for weeks is to try and fob me off with "Well I don't think it's funny to JOKE about such things!"

If "i don't know" isn't in ENTP's vocab, maybe "i'm sorry" is missing from some INTJ's

 

[Fiver]

I don't think I've ever had to make things up to be interesting. But maybe I'm just bullshitting myself.

 

[ZiL]

This often turns out to be at the root of enormous misunderstandings between myself and many J's generally... I've been with a group of people and laughing and joking and just being full of shit in a tongue in cheek way, everyone else was aware I was pissing about and stuff, but then over a period of time one person's got increasingly pissy with me, only for it to turn out to be over the fact that wayyy back when, they thought something I said was prejudiced/retarded/narrow-minded or whatever; they'd actually thought I meant what I'd said and somehow the humorous/ironic undercurrents that everyone else caught, went over their head and they just took offence.

I wonder with such people, whether they just need to be returned to the factory for their humour chip to be adjusted... or maybe it's just a thing J's can be prone to, I guess if your perception is oriented inwards then there's always a chance you're going to miss vital external cues and clues and misjudge situations...

However it sometimes happens that even when I explain that I was only kidding, the best they can do for an apology for blatantly judging me and treating me like crap for weeks is to try and fob me off with "Well I don't think it's funny to JOKE about such things!"

Fortunately I've never had anyone get pissed at me about that habit (at least if they have, they haven't told me). But I can see how misunderstandings could happen, and so I usually don't "seriously joke" like that unless I'm sure I'm dealing with people who will get it. Nothing is more annoying than saying something vulgar for humorous effect and then having to explain/make some backward apology for something that wasn't to be taken seriously in the first place. Plus, being female, I find that some of the things I say aren't recieved as well as they might be if they were coming out of a guy's mouth, and so I tend to repress that humor urge when meeting new people .

I know that I don't know a lot of things, but I feel that my thought processes can be brought to bear successfully on a lot of things. In situations where I'm "experimenting" with applying my percieving methods to some subject I don't know much about, I never say anything (or intend to say anything) in a tone of absolute certitude. If I sound certain, my apologies, I shouldn't expect everyone to be able to read my mind.

 

[substitute]

I dunno... my life experience says there are a lot of things a woman can get away with that a guy can't... for example, I'm pretty sure a woman can make jokes a lot lower below the belt than a guy can, without having to worry about getting punched in the face....

But nah, it's not that I expect people to read my mind... I guess if other people mistook my meaning too then I'd sympathize with them a bit more, but when they're the only one who had a problem out of a bunch of others... I tend to be less ready to think of it as my 'fault' that they don't like me... and I guess also it's a sort of irritation with what I see as their being too ready to believe the worst of someone, like rather than either figure "he might've just been kidding, I'll wait see if I get any more clues about his character to figure whether he's the kind of asshole who'd mean that" or rather than picking a time to say to me "when you said that, did you mean it or were you just kidding?" and giving me the chance to clarify, they just sorta nurse a grudge and harbour all that resentment and project the blame onto me for the negative feelings they feel because they're hating me... ugh, I dunno, it's just a negative mentality that's alien to me, so I think that's why i get so irritated with it...

 

[entropie]

I guess, if you know something or spotted a possible truth in a discussion, the best way to convince your partner in discusion would be to lay out a resonable approach to your truth and then try to convince him with it. I especially like the IJ style, they actually grasp the new information, think about it and when you least expect it, they present you a working plan.

I myself have learned to distinguish between fact and fiction. So if someone asks for my opinion and I have no information on the topic, I draw new connections and assembly a possibility what the answer would be and when I tell it, I mark it clearly to the asker that this was speculative. I guess that is something, I especially learned in engineering in University.

But when it comes to personal conversations, I am really mood swung and driven to talk for the sake of talking. Most of the times it dependes on the seriousness of the conversation, in small talk you cant tell heaven from hell of the things I say.

But I would never lie about facts or bend reality to put myself into a better light. Of that I think it has no style. That would be like searching for new ideas to a topic in front of someone, who patronizes you the whole time and tells you, you are wrong, you have to go this or that way.

---

In personal conversations with entp, I think it is necessary to bear in mind that they like to speak in metaphors or figuratevily. I am more impressed by my discussion partner, if I said a sentence that has 3 to 5 possible meanings and he understands a sixth one, pointing back in the conversation that the first 5 were lame .

But that is just wishful thinking . I try to adapt to my partner in conversation and not to disrespect him by confusing him. If I have something original, I will try to speak his words.

 

[foodeater]

I'm an INTP and I make up stuff to amuse myself. Usually it's pretty obvious to me that I'm joking, but I tend to deliver it in a way that's so deadpan that people have a hard time figuring out if it's real or not. I think I would do it a lot more often if I actually talked to people.

 

[entropie]

I'm an INTP and I make up stuff to amuse myself. Usually it's pretty obvious to me that I'm joking, but I tend to deliver it in a way that's so deadpan that people have a hard time figuring out if it's real or not.

yeah we know and only INTP's laugh about it, come up with something new, it's getting boring

 

[burkeus]

But I can see how misunderstandings could happen, and so I usually don't "seriously joke" like that unless I'm sure I'm dealing with people who will get it.

Yeah, but like who is that guy in your avatar anyway?

 

[LucrativeSid]

My brain changes every day, and every day, I feel excited about sharing it with people like it's a brand new toy. I don't lie, but I do flow freely and enjoy all that ensues.

 

[Mort Belfry]

Um, don't most guys do this?!?!?

I thought it had something to do with having testicles.

I don't know, as an experiment I had mine removed for a week, and I still outright lied.

Is this part of the nature of Ne? I know in my more extraverted moments that I lie for no purpose, or just because it creates a more interesting conversation. I also assume, not always correctly, that the people I'm talking to realise I'm not telling the truth.

Though I'm not an ENTP, when I do it, it's a fine line between lying and joking.

Yeah, but like who is that guy in your avatar anyway?

Julian Barratt

 

[entropie]

Is this part of the nature of Ne? I know in my more extraverted moments that I lie for no purpose, or just because it creates a more interesting conversation. I also assume, not always correctly, that the people I'm talking to realise I'm not telling the truth.

I can't count how many girls I lost to this attitude

 

[ZiL]

I dunno... my life experience says there are a lot of things a woman can get away with that a guy can't... for example, I'm pretty sure a woman can make jokes a lot lower below the belt than a guy can, without having to worry about getting punched in the face....

You won't get punched in the face, but you'll definitely run a risk of alienating yourself, and that's about as bad. Girls find you too wacky and guys find you not feminine enough. They'll both look at you as a novelty and not take you seriously when you want to be taken seriously. I have to weed someone out first to know how far I can go.

But nah, it's not that I expect people to read my mind... I guess if other people mistook my meaning too then I'd sympathize with them a bit more, but when they're the only one who had a problem out of a bunch of others... I tend to be less ready to think of it as my 'fault' that they don't like me... and I guess also it's a sort of irritation with what I see as their being too ready to believe the worst of someone, like rather than either figure "he might've just been kidding, I'll wait see if I get any more clues about his character to figure whether he's the kind of asshole who'd mean that" or rather than picking a time to say to me "when you said that, did you mean it or were you just kidding?" and giving me the chance to clarify, they just sorta nurse a grudge and harbour all that resentment and project the blame onto me for the negative feelings they feel because they're hating me... ugh, I dunno, it's just a negative mentality that's alien to me, so I think that's why i get so irritated with it...

No, I know exactly what you mean, I wasn't disagreeing with you or saying that you need to change your approach. I'm just saying I tend to be extremely cautious until I know someone a bit because I'm overly paranoid about my ability to rub someone the wrong way. I said I haven't pissed anyone off with my "serious humor" - I should have said that it hasn't happened to me for a long time. It happened a lot when I was younger and so paranoia about peoples' reactions to it has been programmed into me. I was "too lively" as a little girl . I tend to assume the worst initially, when it comes to my expectations of others' reactions, and so I act accordingly. I'm actually trying to stop worrying about this as much.

Certainly if there's only one person in a group getting annoyed with you because of your communication style, I'd agree it's their problem and not yours.

I myself have learned to distinguish between fact and fiction. So if someone asks for my opinion and I have no information on the topic, I draw new connections and assembly a possibility what the answer would be and when I tell it, I mark it clearly to the asker that this was speculative. I guess that is something, I especially learned in engineering in University.

But when it comes to personal conversations, I am really mood swung and driven to talk for the sake of talking. Most of the times it dependes on the seriousness of the conversation, in small talk you cant tell heaven from hell of the things I say.

But I would never lie about facts or bend reality to put myself into a better light. Of that I think it has no style. That would be like searching for new ideas to a topic in front of someone, who patronizes you the whole time and tells you, you are wrong, you have to go this or that way.

That's exactly it.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I know a number of ENTPs and a lot (not all) of them seem to seamlessly throw outright manufactured information into their stories/conversations. It doesn't even have a purpose most of the time. One said once, "Yeah...I know like 50% of what I say isn't true."

I was having a conversation with a friend the other day about people who will just randomly make up facts and stories and pretend like they are completely true while telling them, and I realized that like 90% of the people we were talking about were probably ENTPs.

This isn't an attack on ENTPs in general, since obviously the mature ones won't have this trait. I am just saying that, in my experience, most of the compulsive liars I know are ENTPs and I'm wondering why this is.

I don't make up events that haven't happened. Perhaps other ENTP's do this, but it is not something that I personally do. I don't exaggerate either. I have an INTP friend that I catch exaggerating details sometimes, and that is one thing that annoys me about him. Probably the closest thing I do is that I pretend to have an opinion on something in order to spark a conversation. I take one side and the other person takes the other and then I like to see what conclusions we each come to. In reality I don't have many strong opinions, but I often pretend I do in order to see another person's perspective about something.

I also make up buttloads of explanations for things. I have to have an explanation for everything, so I make up one that seems reasonable, and then I constantly refine it as I encounter more data that enlightens the subject. I don't see explanation and fact as the same thing though. If event X happened then I would give my best explanation for why it happened, but I would never say X happened if it didn't happen.

 

[Synarch]

I don't make up events that haven't happened. Perhaps other ENTP's do this, but it is not something that I personally do. I don't exaggerate either.

I would say that making up explanations and promoting them with an air of certainty is a form of exaggeration.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I would say that making up explanations and promoting them with an air of certainty is a form of exaggeration.

Well now you are getting into a grey area. What level of certainty is appropriate for a given explanation? All explanations are questionable; it is only data and facts which should be taken at face value. The best explanation is always the one that most closely fits the known data. Therefore, for me, my confidence in an explanation is reflected by how much knowledge I have about the particular subject.

When I am conversing with someone I usually indicate how confident I am in my explanation (with the exception being when I try to goad them into a discussion). I don't know how well that sort of thing translates to online discussion, since once you remove tone of voice and body language people are more likely to misinterpret what you mean. I haven't had anyone tell me I'm full of crap in RL. In my experience ENTJ's are more likely to overly express certainty rather than ENTP's.

 

[Into It]

I am just saying that, in my experience, most of the compulsive liars I know are ENTPs and I'm wondering why this is.

Wow, my experiences have been the same. ESTP's are not far off from ENTP's in a lot of ways, and I feel like they throw manipulation into their speech even if it isn't an outright lie. But the two ENTP's I know very well have NO problem lying, even if they will probably get caught!

 

[Rachelinpa]

Hahaha. I love the title of this topic.