[NT] Annoying traits of each NT type?

[LunarMoon]

eh, EXTJ's are the bossier types. at least that's how they appear. it's hard to forget/not notice someone like that. chances are, we've met all 16 types before. it's just figuring it out and going "oh! so john's an INTJ!". EXTJ's are some of the easier types to classify.

In that case, they’re far more likely to be ESTJs, who actually have a presence in mainstream society. Any sort of J may have a tendency to be bossy, especially ESFJs, ESTJs, ENFJs, and yes, ENTJs, but the chance of the person being ENTJ is exceedingly small by the simple math. Your comment about meeting one of each type throughout the course of one’s life is well taken but the same can be said for any mental irregularity. I’ve most likely come into contact with at least one Paranoid Schizophrenic (.4-.6% Population) and possibly even someone with Multiple Personality Disorder (6-10% U.S. Population) but the statistical rarity of each illness is so great that it would be impractical me to diagnose the first somewhat delusional person I meet as a Paranoid Schizophrenic.

There simply are not enough ENTJs to fill the role of every manager, administrator, middle management employee, or “bossy” person in the world and the idea that it is somehow easy to type one only decreases the amount of meticulousness in the typing process and creates a greater amount of mistypes. When I personally began giving tests to people I was surprised by how many ENTJs I typed, friends and acquaintances that I had several weeks of contact with. It turns out, quite predictably from the cues given on this site, that all of these people turned out to be either ESTP or even ESFP. This is from an ENTJ, mind you. Can you imagine the accuracy of someone whose only contact with an ENTJ was through a three paragraph article on dubious website?

Note: There is a higher prevalence of people with Multiple Personality Disorder than there are ENTJs. The lowest estimate I’ve seen for registered mental patients who carry MPD is 6% (Foote et al, 2006). The lowest estimate of ENTJ prevalence I’ve seen is 1%. Think before you type. If you type every abrasive person, you meet as an ENTJ than your conception of ENTJs will form as an abrasive personality type. Psychologists refer to this as confirmation bias.

 

[Jack Flak]

Note: There is a higher prevalence of people with Multiple Personality Disorder than there are ENTJs. The lowest estimate I’ve seen for registered mental patients who carry MPD is 6% (Foote et al, 2006).

That's absurd! Wait, "registered mental patients?" That's the catch, isn't it.

 

[LunarMoon]

That's absurd! Wait, "registered mental patients?" That's the catch, isn't it.

Exactly.

 

[Jack Flak]

Exactly.

It still nullifies the point you were trying to make.

 

[LunarMoon]

It still nullifies the point you were trying to make.

According to the US National Comorbidity Survey, nearly half the U.S. population meets the criteria for a mental disorder. Psychologists estimate that the amount of disorders that are actually diagnosed are only a fraction of those that remain unaccounted for, especially in poor and impoverished populations (poor medical care, lack of reporting through social stigma). It may be relatively small but it definitely doesn't nullify the point, and certainly not the post itself.

 

[Jack Flak]

According to the US National Comorbidity Survey, nearly half the U.S. population meets the criteria for a mental disorder. Psychologists estimate that the amount of disorders that are actually diagnosed are only a fraction of those that remain unaccounted for, especially in poor and impoverished populations (poor medical care, lack of reporting through social stigma). It may be relatively small but it definitely doesn't nullify the point, and certainly not the post itself.

I am well aware of the hokum propaganda that is statistics on mental illness.

Let me try to decipher your argument. Is it that you now estimate "At least 3% of the population has Multiple Personality Disorder."?

 

[LunarMoon]

I am well aware of the hokum propaganda that is statistics on mental illness.

Let me try to decipher your argument. Is it that you now estimate "At least 3% of the population has Multiple Personality Disorder."?

No, but what I am estimating is that MPD sufferers make up a fairly large portion of the population, larger than many people would believe, and quite possibly larger than the amount of ENTJs. The estimate for MPD sufferers (6-10%) is far to erratic for me to choose a specific number of 3% or otherwise. What are your misgivings with the psychiatric community?

-It'd be nice if a mod moved this discussion to another thread, by the way.

 

[Jack Flak]

No, but what I am estimating is that MPD sufferers make up a fairly large portion of the population, larger than many people would believe, and quite possibly larger than the amount of ENTJs. The estimate for MPD sufferers (6-10%) is far to erratic for me to choose a specific number of 3% or otherwise, however. What are your misgivings with the psychiatric community?

I don't need a school, a book, or professional community to tell me the obvious: That it's quite silly to believe there are more people with one of the most devastating disorders than people with an MBTI type.

You could fill the Grand Canyon with incorrect yet official statistics.

 

[yenom]

A lot of people with mental disorders are unregistered and hence not listed on government statisitics.

On the other hand, ENTJs are not that rare. Any ESTJs with sufficient frverloped intuition could become an ENTJ. Conversely ISTJ one othe most common type has a strong relationship with one of the most rare types INTJ. So I say that the MBTi is not that reliable. And any NT type could be rare.

One more thing, one should never let the MBTI define their life, you are who you are , not what the MBTi letters tell you.

 

[LunarMoon]

I don't need a school, a book, or professional community to tell me the obvious: That it's quite silly to believe there are more people with one of the most devastating disorders than people with an MBTI type.

You could fill the Grand Canyon with incorrect yet official statistics.

That depends on what personality traits you’re trying to recognize. The MBTI itself is just a system used to organize a set of traits that are regularly observed, Detail Oriented versus Concept Driven, Extraverted versus Introverted, etc. So is the DSM-IV for that matter, which may very well be a list of deviant personality traits.

There is a certain temperament associated with unusually high creativity. Subjects are open-minded, wide ranging in their emotional experiences, divergent in thinking style, and they make up a very small minority of any field. Some 50% of scientific knowledge is found by the small minority of these creative scientists. If I wanted to I could easily categorize these people into a personality type, call it a day, and there would probably be a smaller amount of them than people with certain mental illnesses. These are a list of personality traits, though the way they’d be organized under the Terman Assessment may be very different from the way they are organized under the Big Five or MBTI, if at all. There is no reason why the MBTI, which is rather arbitrarily organized through a list of functions and traits, cannot carry types that are disproportionately over or underrepresented.

Statistics aren’t all bad, though they’re admittedly easy to manipulate. Your attempt to notice the population make-up of the last study I posted was extremely impressive and saves you from the mistakes most people tend to make with them. Other than that, the validity of a statistical find goes up with the amount of studies proclaiming the same results. Repeatability is the essence of the scientific method and in this case there are two other mainstream studies on the U.S. population that yielded similar result to this one. These are (Bliss & Jeppsen, 1985) and (Ross et al, 1992).

 

[BlackOp]

Mentally ill compared to what? Who personifies this benchmark? I can recognize severely deficient people such as sociopaths and personality disorders but sometimes they are just average people existing in troubled times. Humans are inherently flawed...

 

[LunarMoon]

On the other hand, ENTJs are not that rare. Any ESTJs with sufficient frverloped intuition could become an ENTJ. Conversely ISTJ one othe most common type has a strong relationship with one of the most rare types INTJ. So I say that the MBTi is not that reliable. And any NT type could be rare.

Its not as simple as developing your weaker functions. MBTI’s Intuition and the Big Five Inventory’s Openness to Experience have a .74 correlation between each other (McCrae, R R; Costa, P T, 1989) and there’s an increasingly large amount of evidence suggesting that Openness to Experience is a genetically heritable quality. Likewise, the relation between MBTI and marriage that kept coming up in surveys was the tendency for Intuitive and Sensors to marry within their functions. It seems very far from something you just ‘work on’ and most people seem to be sufficiently stratified on this function as to segregate each other socially. In terms of real world actions, ENTJs and ESTJs seem to represent some very different, seemingly oppositional ideals that I will go over in another topic (conservatism vs. the visionary order).

Mentally ill compared to what? Who personifies this benchmark? I can recognize severely deficient people such as sociopaths and personality disorders but sometimes they are just average people existing in troubled times. Humans are inherently flawed...

Compared to the cultural norms of the group diagnosing them. The DSM-IV mentioned in my previous post is the “official list” of mental illnesses approved by the American Psychiatric Association. As per title, it is the 4th of its kind with previous additions citing homosexuality as a mental disorder (the listing has been changed to "sexual disorder not otherwise specified" in recent years). My point in the previous post was on how even the DSM-IV is can simply be taken as a list of socially deviant personality traits, those seen as unacceptable by society. I’ve been skeptical about marking any classified disorder as an “illness" per se. Schizophrenia is debilitating enough for me to classify it as such, ADHD not so much.

 

[Venom]

I am well aware of the hokum propaganda that is statistics on mental illness.

Let me try to decipher your argument. Is it that you now estimate "At least 3% of the population has Multiple Personality Disorder."?

psychologists have this ridiculous love affair with statistics. They are desperate to legitimize their "studies" which mostly pass for captain obvious moments.

You would not believe what these psych books in college level classes sound like. They make the most captain f***ing obvious statements and then have to follow EVERY one of their sentences with a citation from "****face et al". Teens with anorexia often suffer from lower self esteem (Assman et al)..adolescent girls care more about their appearance then their boy counterparts (captaindipshit et al)...there are major health disparities in --hugely diverse city-- (NoShitSherlock et al)

I think the moment when i accepted that 91.2% of psych statistics are bullshit was when they tried to teach us that 40% of women are anorexic and that another obscenely large number are obese. When i asked for clarification on how exactly these numbers were reached, and where does one arbitrarily draw the line on a horrible test such as the BMI, I recieved an answer akin to "i dont know". I put up with their bs because i love the GPA cushioning effect psyche classes have.

 

[locke]

This thread has gone from listing traits to depicting examples.

 

[Mr Troll]

ENTP: argumentative trolls giving it an extra spin. Quick and biting tongue for comebacks after prodding and getting a feedback.
INTP: this relates to this as a whole while ignoring the whole
ENTJ: pseudo-ADHD driven blabbermouths with an agenda. It varies on individual basis but I have seen quite a few Sacha Baron-Cohen (ENTJ/Borat) look-alikes. (<-Yes, they are ENTJ not ENTPs valued Se gives it partially vulgar language)
INTJ: inner anger can be there. Let's be efficiently lazy control freaks with hint of obsessive compulsive traits.

 

[Rebeka]

INTJ - knowitall
INTP - knowitall
ENTP - knowitall
ENTJ - knowitall

hahaha I like it XD

 

[Rebeka]

until they fool you XD {and your poor sensitive soul knows it}

 

[Lord Lavender]

INTP- Pedantic
ENTP- Obnoxious
INTJ- Arrogant
ENTJ- Bossy

 

[Jayce]

I'm not surprised an INTP would say this. They relate to ENTP enough to feel superior yet it bothers them the ease with which we glide through life. All the INTP's I know think they're somehow way more logical than I am. Yet, they get annoyed because I seem to do fine anyway.

All the INTPs I know think they're right on everything and can't budge about their logic when they're clearly just not thinking weird enough and get stuck in their logic that needs to follow a pattern.

 

[peter pettishrooms]

INTJ: Douchebag
ENTP: Douchebag
ENTJ: Douchebag
INTP: Smelly weeaboo