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[MBTI General] How do you spot an ESTJ female?

zago

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Hm... I have had a couple female ESTJ bosses, actually, so I may know! First, and foremost, from the ones I know, they seem to have everything in their job locked down, taken care of to the very last detail, and they know it. As they seem to see it, they have their job down to a science, and it is quite perfected.

Another big sign is a kind of hostile/suspicious politeness... A politeness that seems very loaded with expectations. They seem to be looking for an exact kind of interaction, and they look for it very critically.

Like I said, I know 2 ESTJ females. The first, I student taught under. I could tell who passed her 'hostile politeness' tests and who didn't, because she became very free and easy with people who could pass. Those who couldn't, like me, always got the hostile politeness.

The second is an assistant principal, who I don't see nearly as much, but as far as I can tell, I usually pass her tests. I have changed since my student teaching days, though. My Fe is more developed, and I can actually put some expression into it now instead of just going through the motions. I get a nasty feeling after I talk to this woman, though. It always seems like I have narrowly avoided failure...

Overall I think ESTJs are very critical about the people they work with, and they have high expectations not only of performance but of interaction and expression of beliefs as well. What drives them is efficiency. They may have their job down to a science, but this could mean terrorizing their coworkers or underlings with the wielding of power and punishment. If it isn't efficient, then they see it as not worthy of their time.
 

INTJMom

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"hostile politeness" - that's a good description.
Perhaps that explains why she had her arms crossed for the first 75% of the interview.

She was an ESTJ.

I came right out and told her I didn't think she would like me and I didn't think she should hire me!
Then she twisted it around on me saying she thought I didn't like her!
*groan*
I thought of something brilliant to respond with though I can't remember it any more.
I certainly didn't want to offend her or hurt her feelings.

I told her that I was afraid I was too low energy, but since she had such a big project that needed doing, I would be glad to work with her for a few weeks to try it out. She wouldn't have any of that.
I tried to point out all the reasons why I wouldn't be good for that job!
She ended up hiring me!
I couldn't get out of it!!

I think if I just let her have her way all the time, we'll get along just fine.
The redeemer in this job is that she'll be out of state for 2 1/2 months this winter.
I'll have the whole office to myself.
And she's trying to replace herself, so the next boss could be totally different.
 

Colors

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But you didn't like her. That was the point. You chose to dislike her before she had a chance to dislike you. :laugh:

You tried to bail on the situation based on your perception (/past bad experiences). That's fine. It's your life and time and you perfectly have the right to choose how you spend it. But it is a little disingenuous to say you're doing it to help her in her own goals. She sort of took advantage of your half-assed refusal, didn't she?
 

INTJMom

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But you didn't like her. That was the point. You chose to dislike her before she had a chance to dislike you. :laugh:

You tried to bail on the situation based on your perception (/past bad experiences). That's fine. It's your life and time and you perfectly have the right to choose how you spend it. But it is a little disingenuous to say you're doing it to help her in her own goals. She sort of took advantage of your half-assed refusal, didn't she?
If I said it, it was not disingenuous. It was misunderstood by you.
 

BlackOp

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Economica

Dhampyr
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I came right out and told her I didn't think she would like me and I didn't think she should hire me!
Then she twisted it around on me saying she thought I didn't like her!
*groan*

(...)

I tried to point out all the reasons why I wouldn't be good for that job!
She ended up hiring me!
I couldn't get out of it!!

:wtf: :rofl1:

It seems both of you are starting off knowing what you're in for - that's a good sign, methinks. I don't think my old boss would've stood for such an interview. Good luck, and keep us posted! :)
 

INTJMom

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Strangely enough, I think it's my own darn fault. There's selling technique - which I don't believe is in Dale's book - called "take it away". It's based on a basic truth about human behavior namely, the fastest way to make somebody want something is to try to take it away from them. I shot myself in the foot when I tried to back out of the job.

She actually seems a lot less judgmental than my other boss and the office was an absolute mess. I was really shocked. So she can't be as bad as the last lady - I hope.
 

INTJMom

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It is definitely sort of frightening to see the inherent nature of things (personal or impersonal) being violated just to further external purposes.
...
Thanks for putting that in words for me.
When I feel violated, I'll try to remember that.
 

Thursday

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yup. And actually, that is right: Winning an argument and being right aren't the same at all.

as soon as it becomes about winning - everything holistic and true leaves the building in a body bag next to chivalry and honor
 

SillySapienne

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Hm... I have had a couple female ESTJ bosses, actually, so I may know! First, and foremost, from the ones I know, they seem to have everything in their job locked down, taken care of to the very last detail, and they know it. As they seem to see it, they have their job down to a science, and it is quite perfected.

Another big sign is a kind of hostile/suspicious politeness... A politeness that seems very loaded with expectations. They seem to be looking for an exact kind of interaction, and they look for it very critically.
My sister is an ESTJ and yup, you got it down perfectly!!!

My sister is the only female non-cop I know who actually has command presence. :huh:

She is a production manager and she is no frills or bullshit. She is very short-tempered and curt with her social interactions at work. Efficiency is her middle name, "get the job done, do it well, and make haste!!!!", would be her motto.

Let's see, what else, most people are scared of her because she is immensely intimidating.

She can and will yell, though she tries not to. She values competence and efficiency. Hmm, oh yeah, my advice to y'all, get on the ESTJ's good side, :yes:, if my sister likes you, she will DRAMATICALLY and DRASTICALLY treat you better!!!!

She plays major favorites.

You can't be an incompetent idiot, (in her eyes), though.

She likes intelligent, reliable people, she also really values a great sense of humor. If she thinks you are funny, and you make her laugh, more than likely you will be accepted as a friend.
 

INTJMom

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...
She plays major favorites.

You can't be an incompetent idiot, (in her eyes), though.

She likes intelligent, reliable people, she also really values a great sense of humor. If she thinks you are funny, and you make her laugh, more than likely you will be accepted as a friend.
These are the things I have experienced.
When you're on her good list, you good, but if you get on her black list, there ain't nothing you can do about it!

See that's the thing, I am a competent individual, but Ss don't see competence the same way I do. And they only see the outward. Although, I did have an idea to further a pet theory of hers that I read online, and after I explained it to her twice, she seemed to get it.

So my only hope is to make her laugh. I am reasonably intelligent and very reliable.

I'm worried because in my experience, they are very harsh critics who jump to HUGE conclusions on very scant evidence - usually wrong conclusions is what I mean.

I don't know. She's older. The mess in the office gives me hope that she might be slightly atypical.

I've never been so miserable to have landed a job before. :shock: But at least I know what I'm getting into. I know I can expect her to spy on me to see what I'm doing when she's not there.
 

Valiant

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I get the creeps from the mere thought of the stereotypical ESTJ being in any position of power :shock: Or most SJ's for that matter... Intelligent ISTJ's tend to do nicely for some reason, though. I have had a couple of ESTJ's as underbosses when I was a ship electrician, and one as my english teacher when I was a kid.
I wouldn't be surprised if ESTJ would top the rankings of most generally disliked type with a 50% lead. :D

Being a boss of any kind means that you can't do things "by the book" all the time. That might suffice in the army logistics or some other job where you deal with dead objects and papers most of the time. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, and the ESTJ would just frown a little and say that it wouldn't be possible to bend a little rule, and would then report the tiny little infraction to appropriate authority.

And yes, I hate most ESTJ's guts after about five minutes. :D
 

SillySapienne

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INTJMom: :hug: to you!!!

I can't speak for all ESTJs but my sister appreciates mean-streak, sarcastic humor.

Also, tread very lightly when dealing with their egos/performance/mistakes!!

VERY LIGHTLY!!!

My sister has grown a lot, to the point where she will actually apologize for her errors in judgment and behavior, but still, SHE ABSOLUTELY HATES BEING WRONG, even when she knows she is.

Though she might not be the most considerate person herself, (though in some regards, she is incredibly respectful), she absolutely values and appreciates when people are considerate to her.

Also, she gets annoyed VERY EASILY, so always be quick and short in your interactions unless she indicates to you that she feels like having a break, or some fun.

Oh, tell her gossip, that is definitely an in.

Hmm, what else...

Lol, she and I are so immensely different it is quite humorous.

And sorry, ESTJs can really be difficult to deal with. :/
 

INTJMom

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Update: after working with my boss for 8 hours, I am beginning to think she is an ISTJ. All the ESTJs I know talk WAY too much, and she isn't like that. Not only that, but her work methods are a lot like or identical to my mom's - who is an ISTJ.

Oh! And I'm really enjoying my job :smile:
 

Amargith

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wow...I normally do not like people with this description, but I recently did a test amongst my friends and one of my female friends is an ESTJ. And she is the most reasonable woman I've ever met. She is intelligent, and considerate and very interested in talking to just about everything with everyone in order to gain new perspectives. I'm wondering if she is just a very balanced ESTJ or if something might've gone wrong *grin*
 

simulatedworld

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ESTJ females

Hey,

I'm ENTP and naturally have run into friction with a few ESTJs, especially ESTJ females. My older sister is one and to this day she is unable to grasp the notion that she is not my mother.

I also have a younger female manager at work who is a strong ESTJ, and I've noticed one thing in particular, aside from what's already been said:

ESTJ females are used to growing up in a culture which often responds negatively to their natural ability to lead and organize in an effective and rational manner (traditionally "male traits"), and so they are extremely sensitive to any perceived attack on their competence or ability to perform their duties.

They also have tremendous respect for traditional authority structures and are especially pissed off when others fail to show the same regard for them, and have no problem openly calling you out on this "obvious" mistake in front of everyone.

To deal with an ESTJ supervisor, DO NOT make any assumptions about how s/he wants your job done--as with ENTJs, constantly ask permission for anything you want, even if you already know it's acceptable. I have one ENTJ friend who takes this as a huge sign of respect. When dealing with the ESTJ (especially female), try to phrase conversations in more open-ended ways that allow the ESTJ to make an assessment and enforce her conclusion according to The Rules. For you NTs, don't get into hypothetical arguments about things like politics, religion, etc.--this is sure to lead to dangerous territory--and ESPECIALLY don't try to give her any advice on how to do her job.

For that matter, don't argue with her about much of ANYTHING. The ENTJ supervisor can be overbearing but will be impressed and often allow you to continue what you're doing if you can show him/her strong, logical reasoning that your unorthodox method actually works. The ESTJ, on the other hand, is opposed to unorthodox methods on principle alone. Often s/he makes a quick decision about what needs to be done based on her S function (very perceptive of physical surroundings and concrete details) and will ignore, and even be overtly annoyed with, an N who tries to offer her advice based on more abstract thought models.

The more you resist acknowledging her authority over you, the more she will bear down on you to enforce that traditional structure, and she won't stop until she's made your life hell.

Just a friendly warning :)
 

SillySapienne

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HAHAHAHAHHAA!!!

I am spending the day with my ESTJ sister, today, and we have an ETD, (estimated time of departure), and I believe an itinerary of sorts, (both of which are her creations/mandates).

I do think we are going to the dry cleaners to get some clothes hemmed, then we are going to Macy's to make returns and do some last minute X-mas shopping and lastly we are going to Borders. She needs to leave our house at 3:00 pm sharp to go to her friend's house to help her prepare for a holiday party.

ESTJs, lol.
 
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