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[NT] NT Objectivity Scale

Salomé

meh
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Purely theoretical stuff IS what matters though. Just try to refute an INTPs thinking after they've carefully constructed it...
I don't have an emotional relationship with the products of my mind. Once birthed they exist on their own and can defend themselves. I don't think this attitude is untypical. In fact, this is what often produces conflict - if you operate in this way you may assume that other people do, when in fact, they treat their pet theories like...well...pets. I.e. emotional investment, which clouds clarity and produces conflict rather than debate.
Oh and wouldn't you say that there's a strong link between intelligence and capacity for objectivity? Can intelligence be linked to type? I doubt any strong correlation can be established.
No, I don't think there is a strong link between intelligence and objectivity. Not at all.
As a parting thought, try talking to an ENFP as they go through a thought process objectively. They are quite capable, depending upon the individual, they just choose to ignore it at points and pay more attention to what they feel.

Now, you're just playing Devil's Advocate - you objective INTP you!
 

ptgatsby

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Ok. I guess I can agree with that since I am loath to do something if I'm going to be incompetent at it.

:) Then it's a good thing that you are so objective about your own skills.

Unlike some IxTPs I know :cheese:
 

INTJMom

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:) Then it's a good thing that you are so objective about your own skills.

Unlike some IxTPs I know :cheese:
I'm not sure if it's because I'm an INTJ or because I'm an enne 4,
but I am painfully aware of my inadequacies.
 

LunarMoon

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The prime problem with that assessment is that it's wrong.

ENTJs aren't objective. They're very active in making things the way they think they should be, and seem to always take personal motivation into account when speaking or acting.

The objectivity of an action can be judged by those who take place not only in the external world but in the mind as well. As far as the performing of actions in the external world ENTJs (and ENTPs for that matter) do tend to perform actions in order to feed an underlying motivation, however, the facts and figures by which they interpret the course of these actions are done so in a very objective, and logical way. Such is the manner of Dominant Thinking. An ENTJ is not likely to vote for a presidential candidate "just because it feels right" but instead based on a list of figures obtained about that candidate. An ENTP will, on the other hand, perform an action just because it's fun. An INTJ, another Dominant Intuitive, will often form opinions largely based off of an intuitive insight rather than a strictly logical work-through.
 

Jack Flak

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It's the underlying motivation you speak of which is more subjective in the average ENTJ.
 

lowtech redneck

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Note to self: Don't depend on INTPs to be objective about their objectivity.

That'd require them to actually come up with reasons for putting themselves first.

You realize, of course, that Bluewing is probably going to view that as a personal challenge? This could be interesting...and loooong.
 

lowtech redneck

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I'm not sure if it's because I'm an INTJ or because I'm an enne 4,
but I am painfully aware of my inadequacies.

Being aware of your inadequacies is not the same as being objective about them...you might be underestimating or overestimating them due to the impact of personal feelings. For instance, INTPs are (supposedly) highly self-critical, which might lead one to over-estimate their own inadequacies.
 

Frank

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ISTP is the most objective type in my subjective opinion. :huh: Oh my god a non N as the most objective........blasphemy!!!
 

Jack Flak

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ISTP is the most objective type in my subjective opinion. :huh: Oh my god a non N as the most objective........blasphemy!!!
Maybe if the subjectivity of S could be sidelined occasionally, several ISTPs here would have noticed the relative objectivity of anyone but NTs wasn't the topic of discussion. ;)

I used NTs only because I felt like I could see the patterns clearly. I don't have a complete 16-type view on the matter.
 

INTJMom

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Being aware of your inadequacies is not the same as being objective about them...you might be underestimating or overestimating them due to the impact of personal feelings. For instance, INTPs are (supposedly) highly self-critical, which might lead one to over-estimate their own inadequacies.
I did not address the subject of objectivity.
I have no knowledge or opinion on the subject.
 

ptgatsby

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You realize, of course, that Bluewing is probably going to view that as a personal challenge? This could be interesting...and loooong.

Sure, but I'm not concerned about their subjective opinion on their own objectivity. Given the definition and the framework of MBTI, it's not hard to create a construct that supports it.

The whole point of this, however, is that none of it is objective in the first place. Only those that are talking about how to test it are objective. And that doesn't seem to be type based at all.
 

Jack Flak

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The whole point of this, however, is that none of it is objective in the first place. Only those that are talking about how to test it are objective. And that doesn't seem to be type based at all.
That's just the S method, requiring that it be testable. It can be observed if you're equipped for it.
 

Salomé

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That's just the S method, requiring that it be testable. It can be observed if you're equipped for it.

Jack 1, S 0.

Ss can't be objective about theories which can't be verified by facts.
They think them irrelevant. That's not an objective position.
 

ptgatsby

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That's just the S method, requiring that it be testable. It can be observed if you're equipped for it.

Right, exactly... Not reaching a conclusion until it is supported by facts, as in, tested in an objective way, as in empirical evidence, as in without bias.

That's the point!

Jack 1, S 0.

Ss can't be objective about theories which can't be verified by facts.
They think them irrelevant. That's not an objective position.

Say what?

The definition in the OP is literally the opposite;

expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations

The whole point is that theories that aren't supported are inherently a subjective opinion. It must be validated in order for it to become objective, through facts.
 

Salomé

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Say what? .
You heard.
Are you telling me theoretical physicists lack objectivity?
For the third time. Objectivity is not about objects or real world entities.
 

Jack Flak

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The definition in the OP is literally the opposite;

expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.
Conditions are observable, and aren't necessarily provable, if you want to get technical, as I can see you do.

Trying to prove S more objective than N, an irrelevant notion anyway as far as the OP is concerned, smacks of personal agenda, which is, of course, quite subjective. I've already said I disagree with the notion, as some others have, but that's neither here nor there.
 
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