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[INTP] Please help INTP understand female behavior

Priori

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What do you WANT to do? If you stopped thinking about it and just responded?

I think sometimes INTPs make this a lot harder than it needs to be.
Because everything has to be "rational."

Just shut off your brain a sec and imagine your response to her if you were on autopilot.

A very wise person once gave me same advice. I think mayhaps she rues that day.

If you both have agreed that you can't court right now, then that is a boundary that can create a sense of security in a girl's mind. It's possible that she just wants to be near you and be with you, while expecting you to respect the boundary. She could even be testing you to see how much you respect her based on how willing you are to continue to respect the boundary. I can't imagine how you can go wrong erring on the side of caution.

Or maybe she wants to be chased, to know that he wants her even though it’s forbidden but can’t help himself. Maybe she wants him to be aggressive, to break the rules so she can just passively go along with it all the awhile protesting how wrong it is and yet still cling to him passionately.


She hasn't proposed marriage, but she's said some things to me that have twisted my soul more tightly than a wet rag. Why do you women have this power over us men? Do we do the same to you? It would only be just!

Yes we do. Wait until you see it in her eyes, you'll never be the same. Use it.
 

Salomé

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Or maybe she wants to be chased, to know that he wants her even though it’s forbidden but can’t help himself. Maybe she wants him to be aggressive, to break the rules so she can just passively go along with it all the awhile protesting how wrong it is and yet still cling to him passionately.
Errr....sounds like you're having your own private little fantasy there, fella.
 

Salomé

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Hey, works for me! Just think it might be a bit ambitious for Owly. Sounds like he still needs help tying his shoelaces.
 

Priori

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I suspect he'll do ok, especially if she's an ENFJ.
 

Owl

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sigh...

I already blew any chances I may have had.

I'll be sticking with velcro thankyouverymuch.
 

Priori

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It ain't over till it's over, what happend?
 

Owl

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I'm not sure.

She thinks I got the wrong idea, and she asked that I keep my distance.

I dunno. Not long ago, I brought her a little bag of peanut m&m's from home, because I knew she liked them, and we were working together that night on a project for our school's philosophy club. (She's the president, and I was the vice-president.)

Her friend said I don't understand that girls need space. I guess I was smothering her?
 

Priori

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Did she say directly to you that you had the wrong idea and then directly asked you to keep your distance or did her friend say this? What makes you think she thinks you got the wrong idea? What idea does she think you have exactly?

Everyone needs space every once in awhile, not just women, and if you've been hovering around her a lot it can cause familiarity which is boring.

What's the significance of the M&Ms, the Velcro and your loss of vice-presidential office?

It seem like there are three basic possibilities right now:

A) You did get the wrong idea and she was never attracted to you.

B) She was attracted but something in your behavior caused her to lose interest or she's found someone else she's more attracted too.

C) She was and is still attracted to you but decided it's better for both of you right now that you don't begin courting.

Since you said she asked you out and that your pastor noticed sparks between the two of you I'd say possibility A is the least likely. Do you think B or C is more likely at this point? I would go in prepared for possibility A or B but acting as if it's C. If it turns out to actually be possibility A then it is over and you should move on.

Concerning option B, being clingy is not sexy. Were you being clingy?

If you were you might be able fix her perception of that by pushing aside romantic thoughts and attempting to build rapport with her again the same way you did when you were just friendly. Try to get involved in a group setting like the symphony and interact with the other people there especially other women, but do initiate conversations with her.

When people talk they drop hints about what they'd like to be talking about i.e. velcro and you no longer being vice president of the the philosophy club. You can try picking these things out when she talks and then asking her to elaborate on how she feels about it. If you are unsure how to do that the simplest feelings are like or dislike.

When ever in a group setting get involved in other peoples conversations possibly by building rapport with them using the above techniques while sort of ignoring her for awhile until she says something that draws the group attention to her. At that point look at her until she looks at you and then hold eye contact until she looks away. After go back to sort of ignoring her again and being socially involved with the group. When the group activity is over or she is leaving get her attention by calling her first name and when you have it pick something that you like about her personality and tell her how you feel about that quality i.e. "I like the way you make every body in the room smile." Make sure to hold eye contact until she breaks it and then turn around and leave. Avoid seeing her for the next few days.
 

Owl

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The night with the m&m's was the last night I hung out with her. I guess it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Her friend told me to keep my distance, and then my pastor did too. (He's been in communication with both of us.)

A few weeks later, it became apparent to others who knew the two of us that we were avoiding each other. A mutual friend asked her what happened to me, and she told him that I got the wrong idea--and he passed this bit on to me.
 

Priori

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Walk up to her and ask directly "What happened?" Don't turn into a stalker or anything but if you just let her go then it is over for sure. Don't let rejection get you down as long as your persistence isn't freaking her out keep it up. If it does scare her or irritates her stop immediately. Play it very casual but make sure she knows you still interested.

If your pastor got involved then he may have started talking about marriage and vetting which could have freaked her out if all she had in mind was holding hands and playing footsie.
 

Salomé

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get her attention by calling her first name and when you have it pick something that you like about her personality and tell her how you feel about that quality i.e. "I like the way you make every body in the room smile." Make sure to hold eye contact until she breaks it and then turn around and leave. Avoid seeing her for the next few days.
Cheesy. Do you guys really rehearse this shit?

Her friend said I don't understand that girls need space. I guess I was smothering her?

Walk up to her and ask directly "What happened?" .

Only if you want a restraining order! If she wants space, give her space! If she likes you, let her make the next move.

What's the significance of the M&Ms, the Velcro and your loss of vice-presidential office?
LOL!
 

Fluffywolf

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Please help INTP understand female behavior? Oh, we understand!

Help females understand INTP behaviour. :yes:
 

Totenkindly

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A very wise person once gave me same advice. I think mayhaps she rues that day.

Bwa ha ha! Well, it doesn't matter, I'm safe at the end of this IP address, no matter what.


Or maybe she wants to be chased, to know that he wants her even though it’s forbidden but can’t help himself. Maybe she wants him to be aggressive, to break the rules so she can just passively go along with it all the awhile protesting how wrong it is and yet still cling to him passionately.

Oh dear, no one would ever be that duplicitous.

The night with the m&m's was the last night I hung out with her. I guess it was the straw that broke the camel's back. Her friend told me to keep my distance, and then my pastor did too. (He's been in communication with both of us.)

A few weeks later, it became apparent to others who knew the two of us that we were avoiding each other. A mutual friend asked her what happened to me, and she told him that I got the wrong idea--and he passed this bit on to me.

Ah, well that sucks.

It sounds to me (lookng at the whole thing) that something changed in the middle, and she's now cutting her losses in order to save face. But who really knows?


Walk up to her and ask directly "What happened?" Don't turn into a stalker or anything but if you just let her go then it is over for sure. Don't let rejection get you down as long as your persistence isn't freaking her out keep it up. If it does scare her or irritates her stop immediately. Play it very casual but make sure she knows you still interested.

Jesum crow, what part of "I was never interested in him, he got the wrong idea" don't you understand?

Based on her behavior so far, doing something like this would be absolutely the most wrong response possible.
She will utterly freak.
It's done. Stick a fork in it.

If your pastor got involved then he may have started talking about marriage and vetting which could have freaked her out if all she had in mind was holding hands and playing footsie.

Who knows?
But the bottom line is that it's done anyway.

Cheesy. Do you guys really rehearse this shit?

I admit, it freaked me out too when this bit was suggested.

Maybe an ENFJ might crave to it, I dunno; but gawd, I'd either bust out laughing or just get the heck out of there and stay far away. The scene screams "FAKE FAKE FAKE" and all I need to know is, "Is this guy just a loveable but clueless wonder?" or "Is this guy going to need a restraining order?"
 

Fluffywolf

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Pick petals from a flower and say "She loves me." and "She doesn't love me." at each flower petal you pull off. If the last flower petal is pulled off when you say "She loves me." it must be true and you must not ever stop chasing her!
 

Risen

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Forget the opposite sex owl. There is no reason to share in the terminal foolishness that comprises relationships/courtships. Pursue higher goals and leave the duplicitous, scrofulous, and downright repulsive humanity behind.
 

Priori

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Maybe an ENFJ might crave to it, I dunno; but gawd, I'd either bust out laughing or just get the heck out of there and stay far away. The scene screams "FAKE FAKE FAKE" and all I need to know is, "Is this guy just a loveable but clueless wonder?" or "Is this guy going to need a restraining order?"


I've done 'live field testing' and it works, even with NTs . The most powerful compliments are made about unique qualities of a person's personality vs. physical attributes - try it yourself and see how people respond. It's only fake if you don't genuinely feel that way about that person. Holding eye contact communicates self confidence as does being socially confident/competent in a group (really important to an ENFJ), and confidence is attractive. You hear people give the advice all the to 'just be confident' but they don't really tell you how to go about that do they? I advised him to avoid her for a few days because he doesn't won't to seem desperate. The point here is to communicate to her that he's still interested, but can certainly move on if need be.

However, I do agree with you that it does feel very fake and manipulative but consider that it's the sort of thing an extrovert feeler would do on instinct were as an INTP needs training. It doesn't help that the majority of the literature on the subject is written by seedy individuals marketing specificity to the type of guy you would need a restraining order against, but not all of it is like that and even with the stuff that is you can still sift the occasionally bit of truth from all the sexist BS.

Do these forums have the ability to upload files in PMs? If so I can send you a sample.

Based on her behavior so far, doing something like this would be absolutely the most wrong response possible.
She will utterly freak.
It's done. Stick a fork in it.

Maybe, maybe not. If she really never had any romantic intentions and was totally clueless to his intentions the whole time and finds him unattractive, then yes she will utterly freak. If this isn't the case, then it maybe that something else is the issue i.e. the pastor scaring her and he can help her resolve the issue such as making sure she knows his ok with taking things as slow or as fast as she wants. Letting things sit without communicating directly is a bad idea I think, and he should at least try to learn were he went wrong for future relationships.
 
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