[NT] The knack for sabotaging life

[entropie]

I just watched that Dr.House episode. I really dont like Dr.House because everytime I watch too much episodes, I start imitating him.

In the episode he called his best friends girlfriend to pick him up at a bar, because he was so drunk that the barkeeper got his keys to the motorcycle away from him. The woman shows up and he makes her drunk, too. So in the end they both have to take the bus.

Then the bus is part of a bad traffic crash, as a result of his best friends girlfriend dies.

----

Well that was a story from a fictional movie.

I was out one evening in the past with a group of friends, things were pretty nicely, we were talking and had some drinks. There were two new girls awell, we got to know and came into a discussion with.

Then it happened, sometime in the evening. I interpreted something, saw something that was actual not tangible. Anyone did something that made a series of interpretation going on in my head. The best description for it is "mood swing".

I did not recognize it, those things come not to the concious mind. Firstly they happen, later I realize why.

I spoiled the whole evening, started to pick on people, behaving out of the ordinary and I've gotten heavily drunk. The list goes on, I caried my crusade onto any people I was about to meet this evening. This was not anger or rage or bold emotion, this was a change of heart, a change of mind.

Imagine you have that nice, likely guy, who is a bit shy and loves to talk about science, suddenly turn into a confronting sports guy, who talks about his life with open arms and therefore changes from shy and reserved to open-armed and a good host. Then in an blink of an eye that guy changes again and born is the handsome literative speaker, who seems to have read all the worlds poetry and can talk it out of his heart. And then the thing collapses again and you meet a volantile and depressed egomaniac, who bears the weight of the world on his shoulders.

---

I have come to know one good thing about house, he is a constant asshole. His list about people he owns an apology to, is probably as long as mine. While my list is less about people, I have insulted, but people who needed to take care of my "switchiness".

What to do about this ? I tried consulting sessions but they didnt help. I have the fear that someday I am about to do something really bad for the people around me. What happens to me is irrelevant but I do not want to take someone innocent down.

 

[entropie]

I have to add, this is no threatening medical condition or cry for professional help. I only hurt myself with those things, I sabotage my own life and my relationships.

I just want to find the root of this illness. To better get the projections of Extroverted Intuition under my grip. Maybe someone has similiar experiences

 

[Kora]

I could write books about mood switchings. It's not nice, and I'd really like to help you but I haven't found the solution yet... I'd suggest you fluoxetyne (somehow it helps me, specially with the deppressive moods), but since you drink it could be dangerous.
I'll look forward to read more. Good luck, anyway.

 

[Domino]

switchiness

I looked this up especially for you:

"The Lord Byron I find there [in Thomas Moore's edition of his Letters and Journals] is our Lord Byron - the fascinating - faulty - childish - philosophical being - daring the world - docile to a private circle - impetuous and indolent - gloomy and yet more happy than any other... I become reconciled, as I used to in his lifetime, to those waywardnesses which annoyed me when he was away, through the delightful and buoyant tone of his conversation and manners." - Mary Shelley


I have frequent surges of emotion going in several different directions at once. It's something I've learned to contain or if I can't, direct away from others if I can help myself. Sometimes I can't, and I become very abrasive.

 

[entropie]

I recently found out about that Eneagram 5w4 thing. I always thought "switchiness" or waywardness to be a crucial illness to Ne-ness, but and you said something important here, Ne-ness is merely the initiator, what makes it run are Emotions.

I am no aggressive guy, I always get depressed. If you think about that goddamn 4 in the Eneagram that is compelled to have deep emotions, within one special circle of a personalized fantasy world, combined with the 5, who reacts Avoiding and generally surpresses its feeling that's a hazardous combination. Ne on top, is the fuel for the bomb.

There is something like a constant drummer within your belly, who never hits a single tone. When I was younger this was worse. I nowadays probably would be an emo kid. Or no I wont, I was gothic, I had style .

But that drummin machine in your belly is no threat or something that makes you go off, due to the simplest things.

It is something that makes you never feel right with a situation. It brings you to the point that you constantly seek for weak spots or mistakes within your wordly system.

It is nothing that makes me dumb things that work or sabotage relationships. My feelings are to low developed and therefore true when they emerge. I would end a relationship only, when the love is gone. But that is healthy.

--

I do not believe really in all that MBTI and Eneagram BS. But while digging deeper into it, it really gives one ideas to set your mind in new directions you have never been to before. And sometimes you meet those persons, who give you the idea, you never thought about (5w4 rofl, I always thought to be a cool 8w7 )

---

@Pink , Thanks for the lovely quote. May I use it as a forum signature ?

 

[Jack Flak]

I am no aggressive guy, I always get depressed. If you think about that goddamn 4 in the Eneagram that is compelled to have deep emotions, within one special circle of a personalized fantasy world, combined with the 5, who reacts Avoiding and generally surpresses its feeling that's a hazardous combination. Ne on top, is the fuel for the bomb.

Interesting. It is "the bomb," I'll give you that much. *Ti-Ne; 5w4 sx*

 

[entropie]

Interesting. It is "the bomb," I'll give you that much. *Ti-Ne; 5w4 sx*

haha, wait for it in the end we find out you are entp and I am intp

 

[Anja]

Stating the obvious here. They don't call ETOH a mood-altering chemical for no reason.

 

[Jack Flak]

LOL. Next person calls me ENTP is getting shit-listed for life.

 

[entropie]

Stating the obvious here. They don't call ETOH a mood-altering chemical for no reason.

You didnt get it, if it just were a mood thing, I really had the explanation by now.

When drunk, I am more likely to give up control that is normal.

But on a longer period of life, there is a constant change in progress. It is not as one could say anything for sure about me.

When I meet old friends from the past, I alienate some of them. I have been through, I estimate, 4 great changes of personality within my life by now.

And with great I mean great.

For Example: when I was young, I absorbed medical books. It all started with a comic series that explained internal medicine detailed in a form for kids. It went on with three huge professional books about internal medicine that were way out of my league by this days. I still know how an immune response works. When there are firstly B-lymphocytes that remember of past infections and then activate T-Killer-lymphocyte or Antigenes according to the infection.
Everyone in my family was convinced I became a doctor, I learned a lot this time and started to make simple diagnosis within my family, which sometimes beared validity according to professional doctors. I still have a buddy relationship with my house doctor, from past times.

When I was in puberty I was somewhat not in the world. I choosed german and english literature in school. And I graduated in those. I also choosed biology and religion, keeping in my mind that doctor thing, but I really wasnt into it anymore. I read alot of good books by this time. My favourites are still Franz Kafka and Hermann Hesse, german writers, who were a bit off. That probably initiated my third phase.

After school I went for like 2 years on a professional drug abuser + dealer career. I never did anything except pot. We tried mushrooms once and it was great but I am nowadays to afraid of loosing my mind to repeat it. I made no money by this time, it was all on a personal friendship base. But I got deeply involved in the business and before it was too late I pulled the strick. I needed the first 2 semester of my university career to recover from that time. Mentally and souly aswell.

I choosed to become an engineer in university. I needed like 4 semester to brush up on anything I missed in mathematics and physics and my knowledge is highly fragmented still, but I am getting there. I got deep into it and I love the profession, I can spent hours at my work bench nowadays developing all sorts of mechanical and electrical gadgets. When I was younger, there was a time I experimented with electrical equipment and really dug deep into the matter. So I had a little bit of experience. I eventually ended it back then, because I electrocuted myself .

I finally choosed to become an engineer, because physics was the only thing I really could claim as a constant interest in all my life. So I thought this one to be the logical decision.

---

You see, this waywardness is a thing that is emphazised by alcohol that is true. You can experience that sometimes first hand in the forums, when I am post when I drunk . I pay no proud in that.

But it is not the only issue. The problem waywardness is a issue I had all my life

 

[Domino]

@Pink , Thanks for the lovely quote. May I use it as a forum signature ?

Certainly.

 

[ThatGirl]

you're bored then engaged. Without external focus we get far too introspective.

find a hobby or a constant level of stimulation.

What I mean by that is focus on a constant and get excieted about it. Thats how you get out of the rut.

 

[entropie]

thx

 

[INTJMom]

I feel for you.
I'm a 4w5 and I used to sabotage all my relationships when I was younger.
My self esteem was terribly low, and I was afraid that people were going to reject me.
In order to be in control of the rejection, I sabotaged myself.
I knew I was doing it at the time, and I couldn't stop myself.
It gradually went away as I matured, and also as I healed from some of the childhood pain that caused the fear of rejection.

 

[substitute]

I've had a tentative theory for a while that one possible motive for the 'Joker' type of character being the way they are, perhaps ENTP as the archetypal shit-stirrer, could be that there aren't many outlets really in life for Ne primaries to really feel useful and fulfilled longterm.

What I mean is that the question an employer or careers advisor asks is "what can you do?" And the Ne primary's response is "whatever you give me to do". That's just not good enough, that's not what they want - they want you to tell them what you want to do, and they help you find a way to do it in a way that's mutually beneficial to you both. ENxP can't do this... it's stifling and whichever of your skills and abilities you're using in any one life situation, you're conscious that you've many others, real and potential, that are being neglected and not given expression.

This goes for both work and interpersonal situations... however happy and accepted you feel in any group of friends, you're conscious that you could get along just as well with another group of totally different people with a whole different vibe, interests, activities and stuff... lots of ENxP's have different groups or scenes that they hang out in, and it can become a balancing act and one can become overextended in keeping up with them all.

What we do best is handle chaos and newness; adapt and thrive. In order to do which, we need constant new challenges and changes of scene, because most things become old and easy in a fairly short space of time.

So it's kinda inevitable, according to my theory, that, if not given any opportunity to do this in a constructive milieu, we tend to go around kicking over tables randomly... to create the chaos we need in order to be useful...

There's also this from here:

ENTPs value their ability to use imagination and innovation to deal with problems. Trusting in their ingenuity to get them out of trouble, they often neglect to prepare sufficiently for any given situation. This characteristic, combined with their tendency to underestimate the time needed to complete a project, may cause the ENTP to become over-extended, and to work frequently beyond expected time limits. Complicating this situation is their predisposition to experiment with new solutions. This makes them eager to move on to the next challenge when things get boring. ENTPs become stressed when their improvisational abilities are ineffective and they will avoid circumstances where they might fail.

If stress continues, ENTPs become distracted and their "can do" attitude is threatened. Feelings of incompetence, ineptness, and inadequacy take over. They need to escape situations that are associated with anxiety is more prominent for the ENTP than for any other personality type. Doubtful of whether they will have what it takes to accomplish a task, they displace their fears onto situations they can elude. Panic, fear, and anxiety then block the expression of their creativity. Defensive phobic reactions cause the ENTP to circumvent achievement in other areas and prevent the success they strive on.

If you bear in mind that the work-focused vocabulary, especially in the first paragraph, can be replaced with interpersonal vocabulary to make the same point...

Actually the way I've begun to conquer this is to realise that in fact, staying put produces as many challenges and new situations as changing scene...

 

[SonnyCheeba]

Until my 30's I felt very much similar to you. I was convinced that I was doomed to go in cycles of success followed by a dismantling of it. Seemed like say every four years. Figured I just had very bad luck and timing. Sabotaging personal relationships, police run ins, alienating my parents, interwoven with wonderful achievements and wonderful friendships.

While I think that this trend will always have a minor role in my life. I recently had a two very interesting changes in my life. I thought hard about my approach on life, and went down a path of trying to change first how I see myself. I realized I hate the thought of failure, and rejection. I realized that they had too much control over my life for my liking, and set out to correct it. It became a odd hobby to be honest, It was something so difficult it was right up my alley lol. There had to be a way to fix this problem I thought. It was a great but hard experience, I would put myself in positions I absolutely hated, and realized failure and rejection still arent my cup of tea, but in all honesty its out there, and the fear of it, limits what I actually look to achieve and the fear of it goes against logic, which most likely is why I feared it to begin with. Its odd, now that im over that I can use my intuition and thinking to easily identify and communicate with my new ISFJ partner without feeling, well stupid? So after that point I decided non-suprisingly to pack up from home with what fit in a truck and move to virginia. I stayed at a weekly and was very by myself, away from my kids and friends and people that would normally bail me out. I soon thought that I would run out of money and have to come home with nothing. Eventually I found a job, had to get organized, task myself to lists and found myself I suppose growing. My partner called and asked if she could come stay. In short things are well again, and I have a position that I am very happy. My kids stay with me, and my partner is wonderful to them. I am back in college, and enjoying odd things, volunteering at work, budgeting, reading and lotsa of little things. When I do get depressed its very obvious what and why and think its normal, and immediately seek out stimulation, either go play hold em somewhere with some new people, daydream about a car I would like to work on and the possibilities, or even go to the bookstore, or something of that nature. Over time things will pan out, It took me a long time in life to feel in place with things so to speak, but once worked out, is a great state of mind to be in with work. Also alot of good statements and such on life in here as well. Anyways, sorry if I rambled or ran on, at work.

 

[Synarch]

This is a tough one. I think we ENTP's get so much from the external world of people and ideas that we depend on it. I think it helps to #1 slow down #2 Try to not think in such absolute terms #3 Work on regaining your confidence. Not a compensatory shallow confidence but a confidence that comes from sorting things out. Stay connected with people. When you start to feel bad, try working those empathy muscles for others. It can help maintain perspective.