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[MBTI General] Do INTXs have trouble putting thoughts into words?

Natrushka

Pareo cattus
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,213
MBTI Type
INTJ
"?" pretty much hit the nail on the head. In my personal estimation, part of an INTJ's "individuality" comes from having attempted countless times to communicate what he has in mind, only to be met with smirky aren't-you-forgettings, what-abouts, and you're-just-assumings. Perhaps other INTJs have had different experiences.

No, you've hit that nail squarly on the head as well.


(And for those of you clever enough to catch the omission, I have personally known two other INTJs in my life, and they were both woefully underdeveloped, bitter little people.)

Young, maybe? Age does seem to mellow us. Hell, I'm living peacefully with an ISTJ, something I know I couldn't have done 10 years ago!

I lived alone for years and had very much the same reaction you describe. I was never bored, rarely lonely and felt very much at peace. I do really well on my own, I still think of it as what feels 'right' or 'natural'.
 

Ariadne

New member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
3
MBTI Type
INTJ
I do have problems communicating with people, especially face-to-face or on the phone. I prefer to talk to people online, so I can think of a decent answer... But sometimes, it takes me a while to even do that.
 

TinyCerebellum

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'd just like to add that, in my personal experience, the request I get most often when I try to explain my ideas is "can you give me an example?" ... and this, of course, is the hardest thing to do for me. Even though I am quite aware of this issue, I often seem to forget about it until I get hit with the request, and then follows the long pause where I desperately try to search my thoughts for a concrete and relevant example, which would illustrate my point more effectively. In the meantime, my mind gets bombarded with a million comparisons and metaphors, and yet none of them seem to be relevant enough. In the end I just choose one of them and go with it, hoping that the other person will pick out the inconsistencies and then focus on the relevant bits, further developing the example on their own with other related examples.

This whole process can be quite frustrating sometimes ...
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I find it's nice coming from a family of farmers and tradesmen. I have been fortunate enough to see real world procedures most would recognise and I use those to augment my metaphors.
 

TinyCerebellum

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTJ
I find it's nice coming from a family of farmers and tradesmen. I have been fortunate enough to see real world procedures most would recognise and I use those to augment my metaphors.

That makes sense. You've been lucky in that respect. My parents are both intellectuals in the nuclear physics field, but I think that'd be a rather poor excuse ... :) I've already learned not to blame others for my shortcomings.
 
O

Oberon

Guest
For me it depends on whether what I'm saying is difficult or not.

I know that seems like a trite answer, but what I mean by it is that normally I have ZERO trouble talking to people. The only time I struggle is when I am working on an idea that is hard to articulate, and in those cases I'm better in print than in person. Writing gives me time to gather my thoughts and edit drafts. When you talk, it's just...you know...out there.
 

Cindyrella

New member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
98
MBTI Type
INFP
The INTJ I knew could write eloquently, but was a perfectionist who mulled over phrasing and word choice to the point where writing a paragraph was an incredibly long process. Verbally he often said things very directly (which can be blunt and harsh to an F like me). And when I did get offended, he really took it hard on himself, meaning he was actually angry at himself for saying something the wrong way, almost as though he felt he was incapable of expressing himself effectively. Again, though, he was talking to me...and I'm just sensitive. I had to learn to tone down my reactions to some of the things that came out of his mouth.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
INTP's don't necessarily have any more communication difficulties than any other type. In fact I'd say that most are very good communicators since they can make use of Ne to get their points across to the listener and Ti to ensure that their thoughts flow together logically.

INTJ's and INFJ's are the two types that have the most difficulty communicating. Their Ni gives them amazing insight, but most INJ's don't have a well developed function that they can use to effectively communicate those insights. With INTJ's I've found that it takes several tries before they can precisely state what they mean. With INFJ's (the very few I know) I've found that they just use words like "thingy" or "stuff" or maybe just invent their own vocabulary to express what they mean. I actually believe that this communication difficulty is why INFJ's are sometimes described as psychic. They can have amazing insights into human emotions and psyche, but they don't usually have an effective way to communicate those insights, so people just say they are psychic. (Insights without explanation)

Often with an INTJ what I will do is ask him/her to clarify or elaborate on his/her thoughts, or sometimes I simply try to reprase their thoughts into my own words. Then they can tell me if I understand them correctly or they can try again to say what they mean. Not only does this help communication, but I find in doing this it helps the INTJ give some concrete detail to some of the "fuzzy hard to explain parts" of their thoughts. Also in this process they often change some of the details in their thinking. INTJ's are actually very flexible mentally; they only appear rigid outwardly. Once you get to know them you will find they will readily change their opinion on something in order to get the most logical or efficient result.
 

Mycroft

The elder Holmes
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
1,068
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Often with an INTJ what I will do is ask him/her to clarify or elaborate on his/her thoughts, or sometimes I simply try to reprase their thoughts into my own words. Then they can tell me if I understand them correctly or they can try again to say what they mean. Not only does this help communication, but I find in doing this it helps the INTJ give some concrete detail to some of the "fuzzy hard to explain parts" of their thoughts. Also in this process they often change some of the details in their thinking.

One of my very close friends is an ENTP, and I enjoy discussing things with him for this precise reason. Whenever I have a new theory that I can't quite put into words, I discuss it with him; 9 times out of 10 he'll say, "Oh, so you mean [...]", and he hits the nail on the head. I then use his explanation in subsequent discussions related to the topic with other people.
 

meanlittlechimp

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
338
MBTI Type
ENTP
Actually, somewhat on that note, I'm curious: do INTPs tend to have difficulty putting their thoughts into words? ENTPs seem to have nooooooo problem with this, but I've been chalking it up to the E more than anything else. Now I'm curious - is it in fact that Ti lends itself to expressing complex concepts more readily? I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.

I've always found INTPs to be better verbally than ENTPs, written or oral. I think ENTPs are good at dumbing down complex subjects in laymen's terms (if they understood the subject to begin with) but I've generally found INTPs to have the most concise use of language. ENTJs, a close second, but still ahead of the ENTP.
 

Metamorphosis

New member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
3,474
MBTI Type
INTJ
I think my problem is that I might skip over what I consider to be stupid details, expecting that the listener will understand what I am saying.

Basically, I think that our problem isn't that we have trouble putting our thoughts into words, it's that our speaking manner can only be understood by Ns.

Edit to add: I have noticed some weird problems at work, though (I'm a waiter at Chili's). Sometimes I will walk up to a table without having any idea what I am about to say, and just start talking. Normally, this works out ok, but occasionally some random crap bursts out that doesn't make any sense. I'm past caring, though.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I have a lot of trouble putting my thoughts into adequate verbal communication. I can understand a lot more things than I can express in words.
 

Ferrus

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
69
MBTI Type
INTP
No, not usually. At least not typing. My ability to express myself is perhaps what I aim to hone most.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
INTJ's and INFJ's are the two types that have the most difficulty communicating. Their Ni gives them amazing insight, but most INJ's don't have a well developed function that they can use to effectively communicate those insights. With INTJ's I've found that it takes several tries before they can precisely state what they mean. With INFJ's (the very few I know) I've found that they just use words like "thingy" or "stuff" or maybe just invent their own vocabulary to express what they mean. I actually believe that this communication difficulty is why INFJ's are sometimes described as psychic. They can have amazing insights into human emotions and psyche, but they don't usually have an effective way to communicate those insights, so people just say they are psychic. (Insights without explanation)

Actually, I have very little difficulty verbalizing my thoughts. The biggest problem I face is that I tend to be considered boring by many people because they believe my thoughts are too complex, and they have short attention spans. In fact, I usually get excellent grades on my English essays. In most tests I've taken, language is considered to be my primary skill set. I would even go so far as to say that I usually think in words rather than pictures. The other oddity is that I find it easy to keep a conversation going for several hours, despite the fact that I'm an Introvert. It's as though I always have something in the back of my mind to bring up as a new topic. Additionally, I enjoy studying language, and believe that I have no deficit in that particular area.

In other words, I believe that if you can correlate language skill to type, only INTJ's suffer from this difficulty communicating verbally. Since I am supposed to be an INFJ, I would assume that most other INFJ's are similar.
 

BlackMita

New member
Joined
May 25, 2007
Messages
53
I have a lot of trouble putting my thoughts into adequate verbal communication. I can understand a lot more things than I can express in words.

Ditto. The only way I can be concise and articulate is if I have a chance to think beforehand or if my mood has been built up to allow me clarity (like during a verbal debate). Sometimes I can get lucky and hit the nail on the head, but then if you later ask me to repeat myself, I'll flounder.
 

amber_rk

New member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.

Yup, I definitely agree on this. I also have a hard time putting my thoughts into words because it takes ALOT of time looking for the right word.

I obsess on the precise expression, the profound meaning of vocabulary, the exact prepositions, etc.

So when people read my writings or hear what I say, they think I'm saying something very complicated or professional. Sometimes I think that my ideas are less complicated than how I express them.

On my writings, I hear 'abstruse', 'esoteric', 'difficult to understand', etc.


BTW, I laughed on "Human as a second language":D
 

spartan26

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
189
MBTI Type
INTP
In theory, this post should be muuuuch shorter...

I've generally found INTPs to have the most concise use of language. ENTJs, a close second, but still ahead of the ENTP.
I've had other people mention this to and about me. Someone will ask whatever reason I don't talk much, like if I'm not feeling well or shy and they'll say, "No, he just doesn't waste words."

When it comes to writing I can babble with the best of them. If it's something like an e-mail I have to send for work then I may really choose my words carefully. It can be real senator-speak. Appease people w/out really promising anything. Just yesterday someone was asking me "How do I say this [...]" For some reason I really enjoy people edit. I've even made a buck or two off of it but will often find that there isn't enough pure content there and coming up with new ideas or material should be at a premium rate.

But, I digress.

I find talking to SJ to be much more difficult. It's very hard for me to talk with them sometimes. Haven't really analyzed why. I just tend to clam up. It's easier for me to talk to NT's. Even when talking to NF's, I'll feel self conscious if I go on to a third sentence w/out an exchange unless explaining a concept. With NT's I either don't need to or don't mind to. I don't know why this is or how I could break people's type down because I certainly can't do it otherwise. It's just some people I have a real ease with (some whose types I've later learned) and others not so much.

I like it when I'm able to say just one or two words and the people or person I'm talking to really "get" what I'm trying to say. There was one lady I met at a bar last year that I would've been so curious to know her type, we had the best verbal volley going. It got down to one word back-n-forth for like six exchanges. Then of course we'd completed all we needed to say.

Organizing thoughts in general or trying to convey an idea or emotion I find rather easy in the overall sense. I sometimes struggle for the precise word that best describes my feeling or pov. In speaking I like to know what I'm saying before letting words fly out my mouth. I really hate saying "Oh, I really didn't mean that" because it sounds so insincere. I've even played out full conversations in my head and not just difficult, "I don't think this is working" type ones. Just all the time talking to people about possible subjects that may never come up. How weird izat?! :wacko:

I wish I had that same ease in talking as I do in writing to where I can sit down and let the words flow. I often sound old and slow because there's like the same 7 second radio delay going on in my brain so I can stop words from broadcasting. I have no idea why it's in place. It's not like constantly get in trouble over things I say, nor do I feel internally relieved from like 'Oh, good thing I didn't let that slip.' That's the main thing I wish I could get over.
 

ShyINTP

New member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
10
MBTI Type
INTP
My husband is an ISTJ and I've had problems trying to explain to him why I have problems explaining things to him.

This is so funny, my wife is an ISFJ, and I have exactly the same problem.
 

mippus

you are right
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Messages
906
MBTI Type
Intp
Enneagram
5w6
Actually, somewhat on that note, I'm curious: do INTPs tend to have difficulty putting their thoughts into words? ENTPs seem to have nooooooo problem with this, but I've been chalking it up to the E more than anything else. Now I'm curious - is it in fact that Ti lends itself to expressing complex concepts more readily? I'm pretty sure other INTJs will back me up on this, but putting our thoughts into words is really, really difficult. I often feel like I've learned to speak Human as a second language.

If I read type descriptions well, this might be a difference between INTP and INTJ. Putting abstract and complex ideas into understandable explanations is one of the qualities of INTP. e.g. they are the archetypical philosophy professors.
We do struggle with it because of our obsession to use exactly the right words to express our thoughts, but that does not have to imply that we have trouble doing so.
Does that make sense? :happy:
(I like this metasmiley a lot)
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
7,263
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
You can never be too precise. I'm always searching for the better word. Also, it takes a while to organize sentences and ideas.
 
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