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  1. #21
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    So then what would be the difference with a Fe manifestation of external warmth and understanding? I have noticed that I'm better at and more comfortable with comforting my ESFP friend than at dealing with my INFJ friend's or my ESFJ mother's emotions - I feel ineffective or (at times) held back with them, despite sensing the Fi-ing inside. There's nothing to connect the Fi to. Hmm...I feel like it's empathy (Fi) vs. sympathy (Fe) sometimes.
    Fe makes value judgments based on the external standard, Fi the internal.

    So an Fe user's values will actually change when they're interacting with other people, as the external standard is different. Fe is about appropriateness given the situation.

    Fi's values are validated internally, so they have to match up with the situation for them to empathize.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    Fe makes value judgments based on the external standard, Fi the internal.

    So an Fe user's values will actually change when they're interacting with other people, as the external standard is different. Fe is about appropriateness given the situation.

    Fi's values are validated internally, so they have to match up with the situation for them to empathize.
    Yes, but perhaps a more concrete example of how you as a feeler notice the difference? I stand by my sympathy-empathy thing.

    From Wikipedia: "Sympathy should not be confused with empathy (more than simply the recognition of another's suffering, empathy is actually sharing another's suffering, if only briefly)." I definitely notice this in daily life. Fe is "wide", overt, there for everyone, Fi is "deep", unclear and rarer.

    To me, Fe often feels empty and it always surprises me how Fe users don't "experience the outlook or emotions of another being within oneself" (again from wikipedia) - they can be surprisingly cold.

    Don't take it personally.

  3. #23
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Well, Fe users look obvious to me because there's a sort of chameleon effect -- they WANT to agree with the people around them. They also get mad when someone does something "inappropriate", like doing something that makes the group dynamic worse (someone refusing to compromise for the sake of the group).

  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    What I meant was that I have a comparatively weak Te for an INTJ. And a comparatively very high Ni. I didn't speak about the order of the functions.
    Although I agree with dissonance that an INTJ can have a "stronger" Fi than Te,
    Im going to somewhat pick up from smileyman that ultimately the "correctly built" INTJ will have Te built up at least to the level of Fi and certainly shouldnt be less.

    for example: I have a very good friend who is INTJ in that she is Ni Fi and horrifically defunct in everything else! She has to be INTJ because its Ni Fi and not Ni Ti. However, it doesnt make it "okay". Its like shes a broken type. someone who neglects their auxilary will have some issues.

    For instance, the Ni Fi girl i mentioned is probably the dumbbest and least effective INTJ I know. She analyzes the world through Ni, and then makes judgments on Fi...without any LOGIC (Te)!!!! She simply comes to intuitive conclusions through inner values and she cant explain why she does or believes anything. She cant effectively troubleshoot or deal with the outside world. As an ENFP, my own Te trumps hers...its sad.

    But yes, you dont have to be Ni Te Fi to be INTJ....but you would be a better INTJ if you were Ni Te Fi Se etc....

  5. #25
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I get very frustrated when it does not work.

    Because, when it comes to doing things, it's all I've got.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #26
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    I have weakish Te, imo. I mostly only apply it when I have an idea or goal I feel like I can't be without. But I simply don't use it that frequently. Sometimes I do think I use Ti since I often do more organizing and planning internally, but I feel like tertiary Fi fits, and I think (thought I'm not sure) I use Ni, so if that's the case INTJ is likely my type. Unless I'm an INFJ with stronger Ti than Fe...

    I see my Fe as very weak, but my Te as also weak, so I don't get it.

  7. #27
    Junior Member obogz's Avatar
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    Hi there, here in the 2018s I have an explanation that might help you, if you haven't yet sorted it our yourself.
    Your Te might not be weak. Your Fi might stop you from letting your Te get manifested, it still plans and whats to create order. But your Fi says no ("I'm not in the mood" "That hurts my mind for some reason" "I want to feel good now" etc etc), especially if you are tired, anxious or depressed. Here's a rundown:
    Ni is constantly making associations, coming up with ideas, Te gets those ideas and starts planing setting things in order (ex: To do that I must install that there and connect it to that, I should research that to see if it is correct, check if that is real and it can be done with the current technology, calculate if it is worth implementing that or buying it etc etc)
    All good, BUT! You had a bad childhood, work seems to be monotonous, something in your life is not quite well. You might be depressed, tired, anxious or have some other reason that stops you from functioning properly. So your Fi kicks in to protect you from fear of failure or some other fear or feeling. At this moment tension starts to kick in because one part of you needs to get stuff done the other inhibits the need, leaving you feeling very empty, weird, lost or unbalanced. At that point you might abandon ship and start procrastinating, going in avoidance and trying to escape your Te. But your Te is still there and the need to do is growing. This creates a tension that overworks and creates tension in your mind that tires you very fast. At some point Se kicks in and you start feeling pressured, flight or fight might kick in, you will lash out or run away. Breakdown imminent. Most likely you act like a weak ESFP and you'll desire to live in the moment some other place where you might feel better.

    At some point along you will most likely question your type :P

    The repercussions of this repeating might make you not want to do projects that you don't feel like doing, it might cripple your productivity and halt your progress, get you in trouble at work, appear as a lazy person. You might not want to do anything until you have everything sorted out and you have decided on every aspect, also if you reach something unforeseen while doing you might also give up.

    Solutions:
    - fool yourself into start doing it by telling yourself that you'll just try to work on it 5 minutes
    - ok ok, you can't fool yourself, you are not stupid, just do it, you'll find that after doing the work a bit that it is actually fun, until you hit a road block where you don't know how to proceed
    - think! you are acting like this because you don't know what to do. What do you not know how to do? How can you fix that? Maybe you might need to detail the plan somewhere. Break it down so you can understand better. Anxiety might build up because of fi telling you to run but Te telling you that you need to detail that. But you can detail that because you want to run and you can do that because you don't exactly now what needs to be done and you are blocking yourself from thinking.
    - sleep! relax! meditate! This happens to me when I'm high on coffee and low on sleep
    - and finally! try to ask for help or talk with someone about the problem, ideas will start to come up. You can even use a forum as long you try to explain how to solve your problem to a human being, keeping in mind that that human being must understand what you said. Your Ni Te will kick back into full gear and everything will start making sense again )

    Long term: go to a doctor (brain specialised), he or she will probably tell you to rest more and live healthier. They will tell you about sleep and working mind hygiene, basically the dos and don'ts of living a healthy life with a healthy mind and body. You'll probably start to do that but at some point you'll listen to your Fi instead of your Te again and again build up tension. Cycle repeats itself until you die but you'll still be more productive.
    The end.
    Thanks for reading.
    Likes iNdependent liked this post

  8. #28
    Junior Member 1nquisitor's Avatar
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    My Te is strong. Actually I'm almost an ENTJ, because of this. My Ni is only marginally better than my Te. I score close to 50-50 on the I/E axis. As a result I can use Te for quite a while, but it's true, that after a certain point, I would get tired. Actually, I get tired even by using Ni for more than 1-2 hours. I need a balance in using them, in order to avoid feeling tired.

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