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[INTP] INTPs and lack of memory for details

CitizenErased

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I've been thinking about my everyday problems and came up with the conclusion that I'm totally oblivious to things other people always remember. I don't mean the usual "I put the keys somewhere I'm not used to and now I can't find them". I forget details about things I've heard 5 seconds ago, and I'm certain I'm going to be able to remember them in about 5 years. I remember phrases and faces of people I haven't seen in 10 years, but I can't remember I have to buy bread when I enter the specific shop to buy bread (and I buy something else instead).

I know in most descriptions of INTPs, we're depicted like the people who don't remember names or specific "banal" info about a person, but does this happen with objects, appointments, words said seconds ago, etc?

Is it just me having early symptoms of Alzheimer's or does this happen to all INTPs (or is it related to any function)?

i know there are forgetful people from all types, I'm just curious to know if INTPs (or NTs) have a "natural predisposition" to forget things.
 

Totenkindly

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I've been thinking about my everyday problems and came up with the conclusion that I'm totally oblivious to things other people always remember. I don't mean the usual "I put the keys somewhere I'm not used to and now I can't find them". I forget details about things I've heard 5 seconds ago, and I'm certain I'm going to be able to remember them in about 5 years. I remember phrases and faces of people I haven't seen in 10 years, but I can't remember I have to buy bread when I enter the specific shop to buy bread (and I buy something else instead).

I know in most descriptions of INTPs, we're depicted like the people who don't remember names or specific "banal" info about a person, but does this happen with objects, appointments, words said seconds ago, etc?

Is it just me having early symptoms of Alzheimer's or does this happen to all INTPs (or is it related to any function)?

i know there are forgetful people from all types, I'm just curious to know if INTPs (or NTs) have a "natural predisposition" to forget things.


Well it gets worse when you get older, probably.

I'm in my 40's now, and I find I'm getting more forgetful of even the random trivia shit that used to pop straight into my head; I can struggle with names and places now, to the degree of feeling frustrated. I thought it was just me, but typically everyone experiences some degree of this? However, I still don't forget faces or places I've seen/been; I might not come up with the name, but I KNOW whether I have seen a particular person before. I'm really good at watching movies and picking out some extra immediately and recollecting that I saw them in some random TV episode years before, for example. Or I can hear a song and know what else I've heard it in, even if it was a long time ago.

As far as what information I don't retain well:
  • Information that is not interesting or directly pertinent in some way
  • Information that I immediately generalize into a concept

For that second part, it's how my mind works. I've realized over time I have a hard time holding on to particular detail, because my brain is trying to work efficiently, and reduce globs of detail into short useful concepts from which I can construct understandings. So basically I grab this big ball of data with the goal of making an idea/concept out of it, and then what I do is store the concept and pitch much of the detail.

This can be frustrating when I have to reverse-engineer -- like if I have to support an argument. I do great with rebuilding logical/conceptual steps to support an argument but have a hard time presenting nitty-gritty detail that I originally examined to draw the conclusion in the first place.
 

CitizenErased

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As far as what information I don't retain well:
  • Information that is not interesting or directly pertinent in some way
  • Information that I immediately generalize into a concept

For that second part, it's how my mind works. I've realized over time I have a hard time holding on to particular detail, because my brain is trying to work efficiently, and reduce globs of detail into short useful concepts from which I can construct understandings. So basically I grab this big ball of data with the goal of making an idea/concept out of it, and then what I do is store the concept and pitch much of the detail.

This can be frustrating when I have to reverse-engineer -- like if I have to support an argument. I do great with rebuilding logical/conceptual steps to support an argument but have a hard time presenting nitty-gritty detail that I originally examined to draw the conclusion in the first place.

I see! That's what happens to me most of the time. If someone tells a story, I can summarize it in a word or two, but five seconds later, the details are blurry. I may only remember them precisely after a long time, probably when the person that told the story has already forgotten about it.

I don't remember what I had for breakfast but I remember with tons of details (colours, smells, textures) things that happened long ago, as if my memory took its time to process it into a well-defined memory.

But yeah, uninteresting information disappears as it's being heard.

I was starting to freak out, because I'm in my early 20s and I had the sensation that I was going to forget how to talk by age 50. Thanks for your response! ;)
 

Luke O

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I'll go to the top of the stairs and wonder why I'm there, it's nothing new though.
 

Totenkindly

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I see! That's what happens to me most of the time. If someone tells a story, I can summarize it in a word or two, but five seconds later, the details are blurry. I may only remember them precisely after a long time, probably when the person that told the story has already forgotten about it.

I don't remember what I had for breakfast but I remember with tons of details (colours, smells, textures) things that happened long ago, as if my memory took its time to process it into a well-defined memory.

But yeah, uninteresting information disappears as it's being heard.

yeah. See, now I feel a bit better too. It can be frustrating, but... ehhhh.

Weirdly, I used to be in Bible release programs when I was young, and I was very capable of memorizing 20 verses in about ten minutes, going in, and rattling them all off. In fact, STORIES stick in my head as far as narrative points, even if I forget some of the specific words; I will also remember specific dramatic phrases from stories, I guess because they impacted me.

I was starting to freak out, because I'm in my early 20s and I had the sensation that I was going to forget how to talk by age 50. Thanks for your response! ;)

haa... along those lines, I also tend to mix up words sometimes now. I feel like a machine where the wires are rubbing a bit raw with age. SO I'll go to type one thing but especially if I am thinking of something else at the same time, I'll either insert a word from what I was thinking about, or I will insert words that sound similar in some way to the word I wanted but completely the wrong word -- perfectly spelled, just not even close to the right word in definition. It's kind of hilarious and eerie, and I was wondering if I was going aphasiac.

I'll go to the top of the stairs and wonder why I'm there, it's nothing new though.

I bet you forgot what thread you are in now!
 

CitizenErased

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[MENTION=24524]Luke O[/MENTION]

Ah, yes, that happens to me since I was a child. I sometimes carry with me detailed notes of the circuit I have to do and what things I have to do at easch stop, otherwise I go out of home and forget 75% of the to-do list.

[MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION]

Yeah, it's frustrating! The problem of writing words that belong to another "branch of thought" is also common for me. i tend to multitask, so sometimes I type what I'm hearing and reply to someone what I should be writing... or the typical:

- What do you want to do this afternoon?
- Yes.

It also happens that I'm typing something and my mind gets stuck in an idea, but still keeps thinking of what I should be typing, so when the idea is gone, my fingers start typing again, so my writings frequently have sentences with a missing beginning or end. Ooooh, and about the spelling and words that sound the same: my native language is Spanish, so I sometimes go too fast for my fingers to realize I should write in English, and I end up writing the word as it sounds but with the Spanish phonetics (e.g.: I may... = Ai mey). It's sad :cry:
 

Ghost

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I relate to this a lot. I'll walk into a room to get or do something and forget why I'm there. What's weird is that I'll remember which room or area to go to but not the specific reason for being there. My mom (ESFJ) also easily forgets what she wanted to do.

Over the last few years I've learned to track back to remember the thoughts of the last few minutes. It's literally re-thinking my thoughts until I stumble across the right one. I either rewind my mind or list the possible things in that room that I could need, and it'll come back to me.

I think what happens is that my body goes into automatic while I think of more interesting things. It's not entertaining to think, "Wallet, wallet, wallet" as I go upstairs. (Although it sometimes helps to make a mental note for emphasis before I space out and forget.)

My memory has always been garbage. The situational stuff is getting worse, but I used to have a problem remember specific words. It would derail entire conversations as I struggled to pull the exact word I was looking for out of the dusty corners of my brain. I don't have that problem so much anymore. It's gotten easier with age to recall those words or find suitable substitutes. I still have a problem recalling names or errands because those things are pretty low priority for me.

I also learned about the doorway effect on QI. It seems relevant.
 

CitizenErased

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I relate to this a lot. I'll walk into a room to get something or do and forget why I'm there. What's weird is that I'll remember which room or area to go to but not the specific reason for being there. My mom (ESFJ) also easily forgets what she wanted to do.

Over the last few years I've learned to track back to remember the thoughts of the last few minutes. It's literally re-thinking my thoughts until I stumble across the right one. I either rewind my mind or list the possible things in that room that I could need, and it'll come back to me.

I think what happens is that my body goes into automatic while I think of more interesting things. It's not entertaining to think, "Wallet, wallet, wallet" as I go upstairs. (Although it sometimes helps to make a mental note for emphasis before I space out and forget.)

My memory has always been garbage. The situational stuff is getting worse, but I used to have a problem remember specific words. It would derail entire conversations as I struggled to pull the exact word I was looking for out of the dusty corners of my brain. I don't have that problem so much anymore. It's gotten easier with age to recall those words or find suitable substitutes. I still have a problem recalling names or errands because those things are pretty low priority for me.

I also learned about the doorway effect on QI. It seems relevant.

This is so interesting!! Thanks for the link!!

I agree with everything you wrote. I always forget words, even silly ones, and I always say I'm in autopilot. I walk down the street, turn the autopilot on, and the only clear thing is the path I have to make not to hit people (I do anyway, but that's another story).. the rest is all blurry, unless it's interesting, like a man wearing only one shoe, so it sort of.. lights up. Maybe it's that autopilot thing that distracts me from the goal. I should try to be more attentive during the "trip" to see if I remember what I'm supposed to do or not, geting to know if the autopilot thing is to blame or not! ... Now I have to see if I'll remember to test this...
 

VeniVidiVertigo

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I usually remember what i thought about something rather than the thing itself. Or i remember my "judgement" so to speak. If something is irrelevant i neglect it. This is usually. Cause when i'm not in my thoughts i remember stuff without to much discrimination. I guess from an evolutionary standpoint, it's an advantage to be able to quickly make judgements without to much thought so your energies can be spent on solving future problems. So when you go into a store and forget to buy your bread you unconciously know that food is no problem. but what you think about might be? i suspect you would not forget to buy bread to your family if your children were starving :)
 

rmrf

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I think the fact I'm replying to this thread having barely read it, is a manifestation of quite a distinctive cognitive style INTPs have. The most clear way to describe it is "using Ni as Si".The way we take in information is primarily through building the set of principles and parameters associated with a system and trying to construct a schema which will be the general pattern rather than the specific implementation. this results in NI and SI potentially having quite a conflicting relationship. Something that happens quite a lot with me is I often can forget a quite familiar word but still 'know' exactly what is I'm trying to say; the Ni of "knowing" the word as a 'whole' is the reversal of the mental process of breaking something down and describing the individual parts.

So what I'm trying to say, we have Si, but it's Si of knowing these individual boxes of stuff we can't easily express. I quite often have musings about JCF stuff like this thats quite interesting but in the typical INTP style, it usually just a cool thought that is forgotten.

I still know very little about it, so would be quite curious if anyone has any background in Socionics as it is these functionalist and 'debugging' parts of personality provide a lot practical insight to seeing how your mind functions and what leads to the many 'bugs'. The particular insight about "Inverting Ni for Si" is probably the primary contributing cause to why so many INTPs under perform at academics
 

CitizenErased

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I usually remember what i thought about something rather than the thing itself. Or i remember my "judgement" so to speak. If something is irrelevant i neglect it. This is usually. Cause when i'm not in my thoughts i remember stuff without to much discrimination. I guess from an evolutionary standpoint, it's an advantage to be able to quickly make judgements without to much thought so your energies can be spent on solving future problems. So when you go into a store and forget to buy your bread you unconciously know that food is no problem. but what you think about might be? i suspect you would not forget to buy bread to your family if your children were starving :)

Yes, I understand. It's sort of asking oneself "what's the core info I can get from this?" and neglecting everything else (i.e.: the datails). That's pretty much what I always do! I usually keep the raw info (or its concept) in a separate box from my judgements because I change my judgements all the time, according to the data I receive. If I keep my initial points of view as the true thing, I'm taking the risk of analyzing future info based on erroneous information (INTP logic problems, haha)

Regarding the not forgetting to buy bread for starving family, you don't know me, haha I forgot to do paperwork for my own health insurance. Remembered 10 months after it was due, and said "meh" and didn't do it until another 6 months, when I remembered again.

I think the fact I'm replying to this thread having barely read it, is a manifestation of quite a distinctive cognitive style INTPs have. The most clear way to describe it is "using Ni as Si".The way we take in information is primarily through building the set of principles and parameters associated with a system and trying to construct a schema which will be the general pattern rather than the specific implementation. this results in NI and SI potentially having quite a conflicting relationship. Something that happens quite a lot with me is I often can forget a quite familiar word but still 'know' exactly what is I'm trying to say; the Ni of "knowing" the word as a 'whole' is the reversal of the mental process of breaking something down and describing the individual parts.

So what I'm trying to say, we have Si, but it's Si of knowing these individual boxes of stuff we can't easily express. I quite often have musings about JCF stuff like this thats quite interesting but in the typical INTP style, it usually just a cool thought that is forgotten.

I still know very little about it, so would be quite curious if anyone has any background in Socionics as it is these functionalist and 'debugging' parts of personality provide a lot practical insight to seeing how your mind functions and what leads to the many 'bugs'. The particular insight about "Inverting Ni for Si" is probably the primary contributing cause to why so many INTPs under perform at academics

This is interesting, having an abstract knowledge of something we can't make "tangible", so to speak (e.g.: a memory or a word). When I describe my "epiphany" process (how I come up with ideas), I always describe it as invisible balls (previous concepts I can't tell which they are) colliding in a dark room (therefore not being able to anticipate when they're going to collide = when I'm going to have an idea).

About the underperforming, I can relate to this. I mean, I always have high grades because I'm so perfectionist that I'd die of shame if I had low grades, but I always had trouble with history, especially when it came to wars and such. For me it was all just gossip material: A told B to kill C because A liked the sister D of C, but D liked E, who was brother of B, so B didn't kill C, etc etc etc. My summary would be: "and then, for a conflict of interest, war was declared". Or in Architecture school, I'd do things instinctively but couldn't explain how I had gotten to the conclusion. "According to what we learned, it seemed logical, the WHY I can't tell".

I don't know anything about Socionics, let's wait and see what others have to say about that!
 

Pionart

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You're about 5 seconds away from God level.

Pardon if that was blasphemy.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Day planners might be good. Unless you forget to take it with you, which I can easily imagine an INTP doing.
 

Lia_kat

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This happens to me all the time. Sometimes people have to explain what they said twice because I barely remember what they said the first time. My husband (ENFJ) has an amazing memory and remembers details about every little thing.. names, numbers, what he smelled two weeks ago(lol), etc. I'm the total opposite. He says it's selective memory but I blame it on my constant daydreaming. :D
 

CitizenErased

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Day planners might be good. Unless you forget to take it with you, which I can easily imagine an INTP doing.

Exactly. My parents would always buy me planners/agendas (don't really know the term in English) and I would:

a) forget to take it with me
b) forget to write in it
c) if I had written something, forget to check it

So my parents decided it was a waste of money and bought me tons of Post-it pads, so I could make lists and stick them in visible places. Now, for college assignments and such, I print a HUGE 6-month calendar and write all the tasks I know I'll have to do and how much they will take me with different colours. It helps to have ALL tasks in front of me instead of having to turn pages or check a notebook. The calendar covers half a wall.

This happens to me all the time. Sometimes people have to explain what they said twice because I barely remember what they said the first time. My husband (ENFJ) has an amazing memory and remembers details about every little thing.. names, numbers, what he smelled two weeks ago(lol), etc. I'm the total opposite. He says it's selective memory but I blame it on my constant daydreaming. :D

Aaaaah, yes, it's frustrating. When a person stops talking and you only remember the last part, so you don't understand where the question/conclusion comes from.

I'd say I have a selective memory, but I'd fail to state what are the concepts my mind uses to select the things I do remember:

The colour of the jacket of a character of a movie I haven't seen in years? Check.
Having to pay electricity bills, or put the milk back in the fridge? Nope.
The name of a movie I've only glanced in a trailer four months ago? Yep.
Going to the hospital, stopping in the middle to buy a book, getting out of the shop and remembering I still have to go to the hospital? N-n.
Calling my friends by their nicknames but still remembering their real names? Definitely not.
Remembering "today" is my birthday? I've been reminded of my own birthday more times than I've been aware of it.
Relative's birthdays, deaths, anniversaries? No idea.
Where can I find a flower shop with a salesman that has a scar on his face? Definitely yes!
 

Virtual ghost

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It can happen, furtunately the more important the info or task it is less likely that I will forget about it.

Also having some kind of order greatly helps me to remember or process things. If it is a random thought it will probably evaporate in a blink.
 

Forever_Jung

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Not an INTP myself, but here, have some of my anecdotal evidence:

One of my best friends is an ISTJ dating an INTP. Ms. ISTJ is obsessed about documenting and reviewing past details and glorying in all that has already happened. And so every anniversary, she will ask her INTP boyfriend what his favourite memories of their last year together were, and he never remembers anything. If she suggests specific moments and describes them for him, he can sort of vaguely remember enjoying them. I don't think she is particularly sensitive, but I do think she is always a little hurt that he doesn't remember all the little details of the time they have spent together.
 

narcissistic

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I tend to remember the small/minute details, but forgetting about the overall picture.

Though it doesn't mean those small/minute details are to be important.
 

RobinSkye

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I'd wager that it happens with all NP types. It's the weak Si. It's obvious in my INFP (?) dad, as well. He's about the slowest person on Earth. I think my Si kicks me more by not being able to regulate normal bodily functions, particularly sleep and nutrient intake. It's pretty much my largest weakness, in my view. But that could be because of the fact that INPs view Si as more valued than ENPs. If I were ENP, I would probably try to push Se and Fe more than Si and Fi. I value my surroundings being secure and pleasant more than being able to quickly jump into action, and I'm more likely to reflect inwards for guidance whether it be logical or emotional.
 

CitizenErased

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I'd wager that it happens with all NP types. It's the weak Si. It's obvious in my INFP (?) dad, as well. He's about the slowest person on Earth. I think my Si kicks me more by not being able to regulate normal bodily functions, particularly sleep and nutrient intake. It's pretty much my largest weakness, in my view. But that could be because of the fact that INPs view Si as more valued than ENPs. If I were ENP, I would probably try to push Se and Fe more than Si and Fi. I value my surroundings being secure and pleasant more than being able to quickly jump into action, and I'm more likely to reflect inwards for guidance whether it be logical or emotional.

Could be!! My ENFP brother notices all abstract things happening around him, but he can't recall anything, not even what he did 10 minutes ago. Indeed, INPs value more the Si security than extroverted types. My Si works better as Ne's sidekick (bringing some memories to the surface, so Ne has more material to work on its randomness) than alone.
 
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