[NT] How rare are NT girls? Does society comdemn this personality type in females?

[Usehername]

If you're looking for INTs in the "party scene", you're looking in the wrong place.

Of course society rewards ESF behaviour in females. Society is largely comprised of ESF females - how could it be otherwise? Why would any society reward individuals who have so little regard for it?

I confess, women are something of a mystery to me. I don't enjoy their company or their conversation (although I don't know any female NTs). We have nothing in common, and I am conscious of their judgment which I find intolerable. When I was younger I was certain I should have been a boy, and all of my close friends are male, but usually men find me intimidating or weird or don't find me at all. And I'm too self-sufficient to be bothered.

If so-called feminine attributes (nurturing, creating harmonious relationships/environments, domesticity etc) predominate in females because they are biologically adaptive, it follows that it is not (or has not been) biologically adaptive to be an NT female, for whom such behaviors are alien. Clearly, it is also not socially adaptive, and therefore we would not expect to see many NT females "running around".

We are an aberration...but we wouldn't have it any other way...

I disagree with this; IMO, xNTxs just do this with... a unique flavour and zeal and point of view?

I wouldn't be surprised if xNTx females were a little less likely to procreate/want to be nurturing, but in my experience and watching, for example, my INTJ Biochemistry prof who is a mom of 4... it's just different. Something a lot of males aren't interested in, no doubt.

 

[ZiL]

Lemme guess, "You just haven't met the right man yet?"

Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, "who's that 'right man' then? You? Forget it, give me the pills."

On a related note, last weekend this guy started hanging around me at the sheesha bar when I was out with my friends and asked me for my number. He was, as I just described in another thread, another member of the "socially anxious but self-righteous and a know-it-all" clan that is all too familiar to me (clan...who am I, you're female cross-cousin? ::tsching:: -bad anthropology joke). I knew early on I knew I wasn't interested (he reminded me strongly of other types I've known who, if you show them any friendliness, get super clingy), but since he was sitting there and I didn't want to ignore him, I talked to him for a while. After we leave, my friends ask me what I thought, and when I told them my opinion, they started telling me that I was probably being too judgemental and that I should get to know him better. It felt like, "ZiL, you got a guy to come right up to you and you're not going to marry him?!!" (exaggeration, obviously).

But anyway, I've noticed that whenever I show decisiveness about my intention to not date a guy who has given me attention, I always get chided for being too cold. I haven't seen a lot of guys get that sort of response for being decisive about a girl.

 

[Orangey]

Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, "who's that 'right man' then? You? Forget it, give me the pills."

On a related note, last weekend this guy started hanging around me at the sheesha bar when I was out with my friends and asked me for my number. He was, as I just described in another thread, another member of the "socially anxious but self-righteous and a know-it-all" clan that is all too familiar to me (clan...who am I, you're female cross-cousin? ::tsching:: -bad anthropology joke). I knew early on I knew I wasn't interested (he reminded me strongly of other types I've known who, if you show them any friendliness, get super clingy), but since he was sitting there and I didn't want to ignore him, I talked to him for a while. After we leave, my friends ask me what I thought, and when I told them my opinion, they started telling me that I was probably being too judgemental and that I should get to know him better. It felt like, "ZiL, you got a guy to come right up to you and you're not going to marry him?!!" (exaggeration, obviously).

But anyway, I've noticed that whenever I show decisiveness about my intention to not date a guy who has given me attention, I always get chided for being too cold. I haven't seen a lot of guys get that sort of response for being decisive about a girl.

Ha! Yeah, I remember this incident a couple of years ago where I was asked out by someone who I just really didn't find attractive...nor did I know him. I was working and he came up to me and asked for my number, if I'd like to do anything and blah blah blah, and I rejected him flatly (not in a mean way, but with the stern voice of resolution). After he left, my co-worker came up to me and asked "what's wrong with you? You know that getting asked out is a good thing, right?" It's as though I should have thanked my lucky stars that some guy was paying attention to me.

 

[redacted]

Most girls I seem to meet are SF's, as well as E's. The party scene is literally littered with them. Not that there aren't a lot of cool ESF's, but I sure wouldn't mind more INT's or NT's in general running around.

Do any of you think society rewards female ESF behavior over that of the INT? I am also wondering how rare they are in reality, I haven't found any stats on the issue.

I don't know any stats, but I've barely met any NT girls. (And I have crushes on most of them, lol.)

My ex is ENTP, my roomate is ENTP, and one of my best friends, who was my friend's girlfriend for a while, is INTJ. (I shadily hooked up with her a few weeks ago )

Haven't met any INTP girls since high school, and I don't know if I've ever met an ENTJ girl.

 

[Haphazard]

Well, under every NT, there's an SF shadow...

 

[Fiver]

Well, I am an NT female and it's no news to me that there are very few of us or that we are definitely oddities by society's standards.

I can say that as a young girl I was a straight up, unself-conscious NT. As a teen and young woman, I definitely maintained two personalities. I hung around with the intellectuals who liked to think, but I also wanted to be part of the football games and social groups. In college, I always got the feedback that I was just too intense. Although, one of my sorority (yes sorority!) sisters said to me, "If other people got to know you, I think they'd like you."

Now I have many women friends, but I enjoy conversations with men much more. They are just more likely to engage in a conversation about something other than children and families. I have always felt that my personality was half feminine and half masculine.

I have always struggled with being too direct and too deep -- two things that put off most people. Accordingly, I have learned to consider almost every word I say. I value my independence and freedom to be myself, but not if it hurts other people (even if they are being overly sensitive for god's sake!).

I love being an NT mom. I am not hovering or overly nuturing, it's true, and I am more likely to tell my kids they can make that sandwich themselves! They are both competent and have had to learn to be independent.

Since I enjoy being a leader and being around other people, I have developed strategies that allow me to be more successful. I always try to make sure that when I am leading, I have more empathic people there who can give me input on the touchy feely side of the meeting. I have come to value their skills.

So I would say, yes, NT females are rare. Yes, we sometimes go in camouflage. No, we can't totally hide NTness. Yes, we are considered odd and different. Yes, at least I feel I have a lot of masculine qualities. Yes, we're pretty interesting.

 

[Bougal]

I grew up in a home with a disgruntled and fairly overbearing ESFJ mother. From a very young age, my brash style of communication made her explode emotionally, so I learned to avoid these out lashes by acting more passive, and superficially caring about other’s emotions, even though I have never seen them as being very valid. Because of this change, my true personality was fairly suppressed for a good portion of my childhood. I developed a façade of being a social ENFJ to soften my outspoken, opinionated tendencies. A couple of years ago I became a trial attorney for Mock Trial, and my true personality resurfaced, but I am in awkward state of being a natural ENTJ that has be nurtured to be a feeler.

I think that society’s expectations and stereotypes of femininity make life hard for most NT women, but even more so for an ENTJ women . When a man is an ENTJ, he is respected as a strong leader; when a woman is an ENTJ she is seen as being a domineering bitch. I must say, this stereo typing has always really bothered me. Has anyone had a hard time coping with it in their activities?

 

[Fiver]

Yes, Bougal, I have.

 

[Uytuun]

This week was rather heavy on the socialisation in the uni milieu and I have to say I thought it was hilarious the way women are reduced to their femininity there...and clearly E behaviour (and trying to get and maintain the attention of a male) was what was expected.

The contrast with my courses (I think mostly INs - mainly reduction to brain there ) was huge!

 

[TickTock]

Society is dumb as s**t, and generally misinformed. Prone to mas hysteria and sheep like mentality. Often with views founded on rumor and hearsay, somewhat akin to the blind following the blind. It's not really a good idea to use society as a measuring stick.

 

[runvardh]

Society is dumb as s**t, and generally misinformed. Prone to mas hysteria and sheep like mentality. Often with views founded on rumor and hearsay, somewhat akin to the blind following the blind. It's not really a good idea to use society as a measuring stick.

Nope, too bad so many people or at least a very (extremely) vocal minority are that society.


Edit: by the way, I wouldn't mind an ENTJ woman if she has the right value set and will hold me every so often; but that goes for any woman, really

 

[PurpleCloud]

The other thing is that people (in my experience, xSFJ females) can get super clingy when they hear you make a wry comment or very non-standard observation about something... they treat you like a new toy and ask you questions you don't want to answer, or constantly will contrast your opinion with a "normal person's opinion" and will choose contrary to whatever position you hold because they see you as "not normal."

That's just a headache I hate dealing with.

....
Or is this just me?

Hehe, it's not just you. I, according to most people I meet, haven't a single "normal opinion" in my brain. Objectivity (subjective objectivity) in a female is not viewed as the norm, which is why NT females sometimes have a "tough time".

 

[Venom]

NT

INTJ – Female: 0.8% ; Male: 3.3%

INTP – Female: 1.8% ; Male: 4.8%

ENTP – Female: 2.4% ; Male: 4.0%

ENTJ – Female: 0.9% ; Male: 2.7%

Source: Myers Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) Personality Traits


Never trust one source though however (this one happens to be old, from 1998), different sites tend to vary in their statistics. However, there is a general trend in most of them that there are significantly less NT females than NT males. It has to do with the differences in male and female brain structures/wirings.


**EDIT**: Jackpot:

Estimated Frequencies of Types - CAPT.org

so basically in a room of 20 chicks (a descent size 40 person class) theres good odds that not more than one are NT.
NTs females might run the risk of being thrown out with the bathwater if a guy quickly sizes up that no one in his class stands out as a possible NT.

 

[Kasper]

Prolly depends on the environment but yup

 

[animenagai]

I grew up in a home with a disgruntled and fairly overbearing ESFJ mother. From a very young age, my brash style of communication made her explode emotionally, so I learned to avoid these out lashes by acting more passive, and superficially caring about other’s emotions, even though I have never seen them as being very valid. Because of this change, my true personality was fairly suppressed for a good portion of my childhood. I developed a façade of being a social ENFJ to soften my outspoken, opinionated tendencies. A couple of years ago I became a trial attorney for Mock Trial, and my true personality resurfaced, but I am in awkward state of being a natural ENTJ that has be nurtured to be a feeler.

I think that society’s expectations and stereotypes of femininity make life hard for most NT women, but even more so for an ENTJ women . When a man is an ENTJ, he is respected as a strong leader; when a woman is an ENTJ she is seen as being a domineering bitch. I must say, this stereo typing has always really bothered me. Has anyone had a hard time coping with it in their activities?

that is one heck of a story. no doubt society tells the sexes to act in a particular way. ENFP male here, we get the other end of the spectrum. as a child, i wanted to do the artsy stuff, participate in interesting intellectual pursuits (philosophy, even if i didn't know the term for it back then). however, we live in a world where you're not a boy if you don't play sports. it didn't completely change me into a jock or anything, but i did hold back. was quite shy for a big part of my life. it's particularly hard when you're EN too because your natural tendency is to be true to yourself and scream it to the world.

Society is dumb as s**t, and generally misinformed. Prone to mas hysteria and sheep like mentality. Often with views founded on rumor and hearsay, somewhat akin to the blind following the blind. It's not really a good idea to use society as a measuring stick.

i call INTP.