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[NT] How rare are NT girls? Does society comdemn this personality type in females?

Spartacuss

wholly charmed
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Messages
677
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
People want you to be softer, less opinionated, less sarcastic, more supportive and maternal. They want you to care about concepts less and social activities more. They want you to spend your whole life dreaming of marriage and children, and pity you if you don't.
:yes: But it goes beyond pity. It is as if just being yourself is an affront to them and their values. So you need to be fixed.

the only time i'll consciously morph into who i'm talking to is when i'm in a business situation, or any other similar situation, where it's to my benefit (or a loved one's benefit) to play along and my detriment not to. i just do my best to keep those situations at a minimum for happiness' sake.
Ditto. It's too taxing to do it a whole lot more than that.

We never talked about crushes or relationships or fashion. We basically just tried to make each other laugh by mocking things/people and taking the weirdest or most perverted or meanest conversational tangents possible. We knew nothing of each others personal/emotional lives and we didn't care.
Sounds very familiar.
My work appreciates my N but the T clashes with peoples expectations of females.
I don't know if it's just when coupled with N, but the T over the F is definitely the source of gender-based friction in my experience. I doubt, e.g. that ISTx women have a greater advantage over INTx women than INFx do in the "fulfills gender expectations" race.
 

norepinephrine

New member
Joined
Jun 10, 2008
Messages
402
MBTI Type
INTP
I've only met only two other NT females that I could type. Both were coworkers. Both were hard to get to know. In fact, were we not forced to be together day after day I doubt I would have befriended either.

That has given me some insight regarding how I probably come off to others.

But it was a relief to move into a job where I wasn't automatically "the bitch" because that slot was already taken. In contrast, I was all sweetness and light.

And I have trained myself, over the years, to remember and revisit the events occuring in other peoples' lives. As in, "So how was your daughter's first day in middle school."

Regarding being a parent...I spent a large portion of pregnancy digesting volumes of literature telling me how to parent - particularly that involving a single mother raising a male. And eventually said 'screw it, I'm not raising a boy, I'm raising a human.'

He grew into an entp. Quirky, stubborn, often irritating, and endlessly amusing. Worth having a conversation with. And has informed me (often when I was on the verge of leaping off the proverbial cliff) that I am the most independent person that he's ever known.
 

563 740

New member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
294
MBTI Type
ENTP
One of my male friends, he's an ISFJ, still doesn't believe I really am who I am. He thinks I'm just temporarily deluded from the true path of womanhood, and that I'll get back on track eventually. Doesn't matter how many times I tell him he's an idiot :D.

Lemme guess, "You just haven't met the right man yet?"

:rolleyes:
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
I was lucky to have a core group of NT/NF girls as friends in high school. I never have been a "hang with the guys" girl, b/c I don't like to do guy things, and I hate sports, etc. But several of my very closest friends over the years have been guys, individually. But it's true, as an NT woman, I really don't naturally think to ask about others' personal lives, and I always find it invasive when strangers or acquaintances ask about mine. Also, I never know how to answer stuff like that. I don't spend a lot of time in the present moment, so I have to stop and think about what's actually, physically going on in my life to answer their questions.

I know I'm not easy to get to know, and I'm okay with that. I don't have the energy to spend getting to know every person I come in contact with. I figure if we don't hit it off right away, who knows? Maybe months or years later, we might come up with some common ground. Why force it? And it's okay if we don't. Basically, if we don't hit it off right away, how about we just let each other be? I won't try to fix you, and you won't try to fix me. Why can't people be happy with that?
 

Orangey

Blah
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
6,354
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
6w5
I've only met only two other NT females that I could type. Both were coworkers. Both were hard to get to know. In fact, were we not forced to be together day after day I doubt I would have befriended either.

That's how it is for me. In fact, when I graduated from high school, I remember many of my "friends" telling me (in the form of yearbook signing) that I was a nice and funny person, and that they wished they had gotten to know me better. And these are people I was constantly around for four (and for some, eight or more) years.

I think people expect you (especially if you're female) to be more personable and self-disclosing, even if it's not in a maternal or bubbly sort of way. If you just really aren't good at dealing with people -

(and by this I mean the following: it doesn't naturally occur to you to ask people if they need help with something, you are unable to console others in their times of emotional need, conversation is awkward unless you're discussing something impersonal, general reticence when it comes to divulging personal information, lack of smiles, unable to rain warm regard on other people, even if you feel it, and so on)

- then it's like you're a worthless person, or that anything else you do well is worth less because of it. It's like "well, Orangey, you are really smart and have great ideas, but you should really work on your people skills." And I think that while everybody who is not naturally social experiences this to a degree, I do think that it's worse for women. A guy can get away with compartmentalizing their talents (i.e., "well, he's kind of an asshole but he's really good at X, Y, Z), but women are judged on a kind of total level, where it's not their skill at any particular thing that's important, but their overall worthiness as a person (which their particular skill may adorn, but could never determine).

This is just my perception BTW, so none of it may actually be true :).
 

Uytuun

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,633
MBTI Type
nnnn
Today - when I was in the shower (personal detail!) - I realised how effing impossible I must be to many people due to my very independent nature. It simply doesn't occur to me to ask for help or communicate any issues I might have or communicate about other people's personal details. :peepwall:
 

Turkish_Cats

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
12
MBTI Type
INTJ
How hard society is on an NT female depends entirely on who she associates with.

I have a feeling that it'd be hardest on INTP females. INTJs... not so much.

INTJs are crackpots,all facts which don't fit their theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.Especially INTJ females,only a few people could bear them.

I haven't meet any INTJ females as far.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Um what :huh:

"INTJs are crackpots... Especially INTJ females"
"I haven't meet any INTJ females"

Kay.
 

bluebell

New member
Joined
Apr 30, 2007
Messages
1,485
MBTI Type
INTP
INTJs are crackpots,all facts which don't fit their theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.Especially INTJ females,only a few people could bear them.

I haven't meet any INTJ females as far.

:shock:

So, uh, why did you write this exactly?
 

Uytuun

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,633
MBTI Type
nnnn
INTJs are crackpots,all facts which don't fit their theories are just wrong. The more all-encompassing and less applicable to reality the theories, the better.Especially INTJ females,only a few people could bear them.

I haven't meet any INTJ females as far.

Oh I see what you're doing there, clever mise en abîme of your INTJ (female) theory!

Or maybe you're being cynical.

Must know...which fact to ignore.
 

01011010

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
MBTI Type
INxJ
I am primarily in science. This seems to attract more NT XXs than other fields. Cliche, but for a reason. There are quite a few that gravitate towards the subject matter. This is the only area I've met other NTs.

People can find it strange for women to not conform to the standards that this gender is conditioned to. It doesn't matter as long as an NT XX knows how to fake social grace when necessary in order to achieve their goals. There is no reason to feel demonized for not being typical.
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
A lot of my girl friends at school are NTs. Then again, I am a science major and thus spend a lot of time with other science majors, so that may skew things.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
1,941
MBTI Type
INTJ
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512
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm INTJ, and I find that I have close to nothing to talk to other people (in society) about. No one's interested in my interests, and they're mostly horrified that I don't dress up, don't care for personal contact and am obsessed by various academic topics. I don't go out of my way to offend other people, so I'm more or less accepted by the general population (if they actually see me up and about). Exception being my family, which still can't figure out how I ended up so... "independent" and "stubborn". I guess as Booya said, the advantage to being an NT female is that we are Ts, and don't really care about what others think of us. Work is a completely different story.

About 40% of the females at my workplace are NTs. That's probably because it's a university biochemistry department. At first I thought that (based on Aussie stereotypes) it would be a really relaxed and slack working environment. But I was proven wrong, probably because there are a TONNE of NTs in the department. It seems like 95% of the conversation is actually about work and sharing ideas. NTs, male or female, are very accepted. Independence of thought and action is also encouraged. I feel like I'm a genuinely respected part of the group, which is a feeling that I've never had outside the lab before.

There is another female NTJ in my lab, and I completely admire her for her competence. We crack silly jokes with an INTJ postdoc (male) and get along really well - and we all respect each other and don't take criticism personally. There are 2 INT females in the lab next door, one is pretty competitive and uptight. The other is probably closest to me in personality and interests than anyone else at work. We like the same music, the same movies, the same sports... We'd practically be the same person in another universe. The amusing irony is that if either of us weren't INT, we'd probably have a much closer friendship.

The NTs, male and female, usually get along really well in that environment. So yeah. Just jump into a biological sciences department in any university and you'll land on a tonne of NT females, most of whom feel accepted.
 

animenagai

New member
Joined
Aug 22, 2008
Messages
1,569
MBTI Type
NeFi
Enneagram
4w3
sciences eh? maybe i shoulda kept my maths major. fuck. maybe i'll just jump on that philosophy of science course next semester :D.
 

Usehername

On a mission
Joined
May 30, 2007
Messages
3,794
sciences eh? maybe i shoulda kept my maths major. fuck. maybe i'll just jump on that philosophy of science course next semester :D.

That's an Arts student science class to meet their science requirement. (Or, at least at my school.)
 

IlyaK1986

New member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
481
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I know a very VERY smart INTJ (or that's what I'd describe her as...maybe INTP). My favorite professor I'd also describe as an xNTJ.

The most amazing woman I've ever known (from high school) as far as I can tell is an ENTJ if there ever was one.
 

runvardh

にゃん
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
8,541
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Rare enough to make them hard to find, persecuted enough to make then even harder to find. Thankfully the somewhat congregate.
 

Ism

New member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
1,097
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w1
The only 'NT' girl I think I've seen and can recall (she sits right across from me in class) seems fairly consistent with the norm of a socially integrated individual.

You can tell there's something more, though, beneath the surface, especially when she starts to speak when the more abstract questions are asked in English or History. I remember when we were presenting our summer assignments, one kid did his on Arestotelianism in relation to a book, and it's overall concept. When it came to one of Aristotle's ideas on something about God or life or whatever (I can't remember, exactly), she pipes up with this question in relation to the subject, which demanded more than a one or two sentence answer, and it was well worded and quite inquisitive of her to ask. Whether or not she was just doing it for theatrics or out of honest, intellectual curiosity, it kind of came out of the blue. You don't hear stuff like that very often, especially when it's not commanded or required by an instructor. Everyone in my classes either follows an inquiry or idea the teacher asks and tries to grasp and question it (though not to as great an extent), or just tries to scrape up facts to prove it, since the concept kind of goes over their head, despite their higher grades. (The latter tend to be the more studious, though intelligent, concrete thinkers.) She's also a cheerleader, member of the student council (I think), and some other things that aren't typically applied to the 'NT' stereotype.

So, yeah, I think a lot of the time the NT girls floating around tend to bend with the standards of society, if only to project a more welcoming persona, and to appear less cold or uninviting to the majority of other people, who don't exactly work the same way, mentally.

Then again, there are those girls--probably because they're younger-- who broadcast the fact that they're so different and society is corrupted and that they're cool and wierd and, essentially, smarter than everyone else. Some of it might be true, but the mostly negative feedback towards their behavior either fuels or subdues them.
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Most girls I seem to meet are SF's, as well as E's. The party scene is literally littered with them. Not that there aren't a lot of cool ESF's, but I sure wouldn't mind more INT's or NT's in general running around.

Do any of you think society rewards female ESF behavior over that of the INT? I am also wondering how rare they are in reality, I haven't found any stats on the issue.

If you're looking for INTs in the "party scene", you're looking in the wrong place.

Of course society rewards ESF behaviour in females. Society is largely comprised of ESF females - how could it be otherwise? Why would any society reward individuals who have so little regard for it?

I confess, women are something of a mystery to me. I don't enjoy their company or their conversation (although I don't know any female NTs). We have nothing in common, and I am conscious of their judgment which I find intolerable. When I was younger I was certain I should have been a boy, and all of my close friends are male, but usually men find me intimidating or weird or don't find me at all. And I'm too self-sufficient to be bothered.

If so-called feminine attributes (nurturing, creating harmonious relationships/environments, domesticity etc) predominate in females because they are biologically adaptive, it follows that it is not (or has not been) biologically adaptive to be an NT female, for whom such behaviors are alien. Clearly, it is also not socially adaptive, and therefore we would not expect to see many NT females "running around".

We are an aberration...but we wouldn't have it any other way...
 
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