[Fi] Rant about Fi

[Diablesse]

Such as?

Well, I have been considering running for President, lately, and now that I know I am objectively, fucking amazing, I have no doubts.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Well, I have been considering running for President, lately, and now that I know I am objectively, fucking amazing, I have no doubts.

And that is the secret to everything.

 

[Diablesse]

One last thing before I go...

 

[giorgaros2]

Most of you havent even read all of my post , maybe you stopped reading after having read the title because you were too butthurt .
If you had read my post you d realise that my rant is directed at unhealthy Fi not healthy Fi.
(Its funny though that Fi doms havent even provided a logical counter argument, they are just angry at me, you kinda prove my point there lol)

 

[Diablesse]

See previous post for future reference

 

[Amargith]

you're not the first Ti-user to bump heads and get frustrated with Fi-users and you won't be the last. Just a thought though - you may want to refrain from giving advice on things to people who have a very different way of looking at the world and who work with things you are a) likely uncomfortable with, b) totally not interested in and c) you will never master due to the previous two - chances are they are at least marginally more effective at those things than you are, if only due to their interest in the matter.

Even if they seem to be bumbling about, the fact that you're not willing to go near Fi (due to it being your blindspot) with a 10 foot pole makes you kind of unqualified to tell them how to conduct their business in that area - so give them their space and let them figure it out

Lastly, while you may find their behaviour irritating and perhaps unnecessary, it might be a good idea to not assume to know their motivations or intentions and draw conclusions based on those. Often, due to the focus on the self, Fi-users who are still fine-tuning their values are oblivious to group stuff. Fe just isn't their focus and there is nothing wrong with that. That, however, can certainly come across as 'superior and selfish' to Fe-users whose focus is most definitely on that part of life. It, however, doesn't mean that the Fi-user is in fact feeling superior or is acting selfishly. They just don't share the Fe-user's focus. Add to that that Fe-users are focused on 'actions revealing what kind of person they're dealing with', aka the bottomline, vs Fi focusing on intention and journey wrt to people and..voila, a misunderstanding and mislabelling is born, with all the animosity it generates for no fucking reason. The same happens when Fi-users feel oppressed and accuse Fe-users of emotionally blackmailing them into compliance to group decisions.

Ime - I've made the same mistake with Ti-users, myself - assumptions like that tend to be way off base and unjust, due to the fact that Ti-Fe and Te-Fi processes and values things in such a different way. Something that screams selfishness to a Ti-Fe user can be the mark of pure selflessness for an Fi-Te user, and vice versa. The difference is often in the execution, due to the group orientation vs individual orientation. If it really bugs you, take the time to figure out how and why the systems differ, even if you will never agree with their pov. It's what I tried to do, in any case. It will save you a lot of misunderstanding and aggravation, while it will save them a lot of head aches in dealing with your disapproval - energy they could use to actually figure things out (and how they work for *them*) instead of (as I often see happen) being hounded until they doubt themselves and their way of life instead.

/2 cents.

That said, I like that you put it in the title that it was in fact a rant - we all need to rant occasionally and let it all out. As long as we realise that a rant doesn't spout Truth, it is in fact quite beneficial and healing to do so.

 

[ceecee]

Extraverted Thinking is also found in the tertiary function of ENFPs and ESFPs. When these types have developed the function more, they are able to quickly make decisions and organize their environment. ENFPs and ESFPs with highly developed Te tend take make good managers and their decision making skills pair well with their strong interpersonal skills.

Extraverted Thinking (Te)

Maybe the next thread can be Fe users saying how much they hate Te due to the two people they know that are Te aux and they suck so the entire function sucks and it doesn't do anything good because it's not Fe.....

I have a hard time understanding how someone can dislike a function, especially when using unhealthy people as your example.

 

[giorgaros2]

I can you use Fi if i want to and i can become aware of supressing it (mostly when i use Ti/Fe not Ti alone), it is difficult for me though because my Fi is actually pretty strong ( i remember using it when i as a little kid too ) and so this has been a problem for me over the years.Thats why lately i am trying to wake up my Fi and stop supressing my self.
How about you Fi users? Are you aware of Ti supression , are you able to see it ?

 

[Amargith]

I can you use Fi if i want to and i can become aware of supressing it (mostly when i use Ti/Fe not Ti alone), it is difficult for me though because my Fi is actually pretty strong ( i remember using it when i as a little kid too ) and so this has been a problem for me over the years.Thats why lately i am trying to wake up my Fi and stop supressing my self.
How about you Fi users? Are you aware of Ti supression , are you able to see it ?

I can, when a friendly Ti-user takes the time to walk me through things, or takes the time to actually explain his pov in depth. I have a hard time trusting it when I use it on my own though my Te getting stronger now helps a little in that department.

That said, I know what the state of my mastery in that department is - and where my limits are. I leave it to Ti-users to actually use the thing on a high level that requires a certain mastery though I'll gladly listen to their thesis if they're willing to give me the time to catch up.

In the end though, Ti doesn't process stuff that is important to me, personally. While it's a nifty toy, it could never do the job that Fi does for me - which is vital to my life.

 

[Diablesse]

Maybe the next thread can be Fe users saying how much they hate Te due to the two people they know that are Te aux and they suck so the entire function sucks and it doesn't do anything good because it's not Fe.....

I have a hard time understanding how someone can dislike a function, especially when using unhealthy people as your example.

Agreed, I can't understand why people participate on typology based discussion boards to learn about different types of people and then complain about others with differing functions, points to a lack of maturity in my eyes. I suppose they need to find a way to keep themselves entertained and occupied.

 

[Poki]

I can, when a friendly Ti-user takes the time to walk me through things, or takes the time to actually explain his pov in depth. I have a hard time trusting it when I use it on my own though my Te getting stronger now helps a little in that department.

That said, I know what the state of my mastery in that department is - and where my limits are. I leave it to Ti-users to actually use the thing on a high level that requires a certain mastery though I'll gladly listen to their thesis if they're willing to give me the time to catch up.

In the end though, Ti doesn't process stuff that is important to me, personally. While it's a nifty toy, it could never do the job that Fi does for me - which is vital to my life.

That's where Ti and Fe come in handy, we can help you do the jobs which are vital to your life . Even though it's done in a different way then you would do it. This where I think a dom Fe more treats everyone the same and can help a group who is similiar and dom Ti is more specific to each individual person instead of a group.

It's funny because I see more extreme back and forth between FiTe and TeFi then I see between Ti and Fi yet this combo gets the bad rap.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Most of you havent even read all of my post , maybe you stopped reading after having read the title because you were too butthurt .
If you had read my post you d realise that my rant is directed at unhealthy Fi not healthy Fi.
(Its funny though that Fi doms havent even provided a logical counter argument, they are just angry at me, you kinda prove my point there lol)

From a logical perspective, your argument is invalid.

Here, let's look at this:

fi judges things based on like/dislike and that is the core aspect of it

There is truth in how you say this. Your underlying premise however is that this is illogical. ime, the gut feelings of like / dislike require time to interpret well, but generally correspond to a very elegant internal logical framework. Fi is a rational function after all; as rational in nature as Ti. You lack the cognitive framework to appreciate the depth of this, but it will work best if you understand Fi doms are looking for as much cohesivness in a value-based structure as you are through Ti. We too are looking for the one simple equation that explains it all.

You sound quite young. Your friends therefore are primarily also young. Everyone is just figuring this out as they go along. Young Fi doms cannot express their internal feeling framework well into words. What's inside is like a masterful painting, and the words used to describe that are like finger-painting by a 5 year old. Fi has Te to express itself, after all. You will only see the crudeness of inferior Te, rather than direct expression from the dominant function. It takes time for Fi to find words to put to these feelings-based value concepts. And, it takes time, years of time, to realize that some of the things that feel somewhat objective as a youth have more shades of grey than initially realized.

This is part of the journey we are all on. So, having patience for each other is paramount. I have no problem with your rant, and no need to convince you of a position, so that's the primary reason why you're not going to have a bunch of Fi doms in here trying to appease your aux Ti.

And welcome to the forum new person. Nice to have you.

 

[Amargith]

That's where Ti and Fe come in handy, we can help you do the jobs which are vital to your life . Even though it's done in a different way then you would do it. This where I think a dom Fe more treats everyone the same and can help a group who is similiar and dom Ti is more specific to each individual person instead of a group.

It's funny because I see more extreme back and forth between FiTe and TeFi then I see between Ti and Fi yet this combo gets the bad rap.

In theory, that is great - in practice, ime, too often the Fe-user gets impatient with Fi's need to dot the i's, so to speak and the Ti-user gets annoyed that the Fi-user has the wrong parameters through which to judge the information, ime

Tbh, I prefer working things out alone with my Fi -that's what it was designed for and ask the help of Te-users or Fe-users once I have everything mapped out with Fi, so I know what to stand firm on and what i can work with in their vision. I like Ti mostly as an alternative way to look at information - my Ne loves extra associations and different ways of looking at something.

It's a perk at times - for the most part though, it actually sets back my work significantly when it gets forced upon me as a system I must adhere (think work situation and the like)

In the end, it comes back to respect for each others povs and actually working as a team and trusting the other's abilities - even in areas that to you seem mystical and perhaps puzzling on how they work. And unfortunately, as it is harder to put Fi into words than Fe, Ti and Te...it tends to piss others who don't see things through an Fi lens off seriously and you're left going: I'm sorry! All i know is that *for me* it doesn't work that way because it doesn't *feel* right.

Which is counterproductive for both parties, ime.

 

[giorgaros2]

I can, when a friendly Ti-user takes the time to walk me through things, or takes the time to actually explain his pov in depth. I have a hard time trusting it when I use it on my own though my Te getting stronger now helps a little in that department.

That said, I know what the state of my mastery in that department is - and where my limits are. I leave it to Ti-users to actually use the thing on a high level that requires a certain mastery though I'll gladly listen to their thesis if they're willing to give me the time to catch up.

In the end though, Ti doesn't process stuff that is important to me, personally. While it's a nifty toy, it could never do the job that Fi does for me - which is vital to my life.

You can better see how you supress your Ti , if you try to apply on something that interests Fi (like friendship or personal relationship) instead of applying to things that Fi doesnt care (like math science , etc).Trying to analyze people and understanding logically what you can take from them and how can they be useful to you is a way to see how Ti works ONLY when it supresses Fi completely.Most Ti users dont supress Fi so much , those who do are called sociopaths.

 

[Amargith]

You can better see how you supress your Ti , if you try to apply on something that interests Fi (like friendship or personal relationship) instead of applying to things that Fi doesnt care (like math science , etc).Trying to analyze people and understanding logically what you can take from them and how can they be useful to you is a way to see how Ti works ONLY when it supresses Fi completely.Most Ti users dont supress Fi so much , those who do are called sociopaths.

I can see it but it goes against everything I stand for, so the only use I have for it is to recognise it in others and protect those in their path/steer clear from them.

Other things that Ti normally is at its best at (mathematics, programming, etc), I use my ruddy Te for as I could care less why it works as long as it works and I know how to use it

 

[Poki]

In theory, that is great - in practice, ime, too often the Fe-user gets impatient with Fi's need to dot the i's, so to speak and the Ti-user gets annoyed that the Fi-user has the wrong parameters through which to judge the information, ime

Tbh, I prefer working things out alone with my Fi -that's what it was designed for and ask the help of Te-users or Fe-users once I have everything mapped out with Fi, so I know what to stand firm on and what i can work with in their vision. I like Ti mostly as an alternative way to look at information - my Ne loves extra associations and different ways of looking at something.

It's a perk at times - for the most part though, it actually sets back my work significantly when it gets forced upon me as a system I must adhere (think work situation and the like)

In the end, it comes back to respect for each others povs and actually working as a team and trusting the other's abilities - even in areas that to you seem mystical and perhaps puzzling on how they work. And unfortunately, as it is harder to put Fi into words than Fe, Ti and Te...it tends to piss others who don't see things through an Fi lens off seriously and you're left going: I'm sorry! All i know is that *for me* it doesn't work that way because it doesn't *feel* right.

Which is counterproductive for both parties, ime.

You speak to to many INTJs who operate on theory. I am referring to real life, not theory. And I have example after example of this. Couple after couple as examples. I am not a theory first, I am a real life stand above and beyond theory.

I do completely see what you say, but Fe is not meant as something to dot the i's and I know way to many times where it's Te in real life who gets impatient with Fi and parameters and Fi who will rationalize away Te as a positive thing. Just my 2 cents from what I see. I can and will play with Te impatience at the flip of a switch when I decide to push buttons. It's the easiest buttons to push and it's a huge issue between ExFPs and IxTJs that have something against each other.

In regard to OP, Gotta love more inferior Fi...this is not unhealthy Fi though. Weak is not associated with unhealthy. The strong can become unhealthy and presents itself in a different way then a weak unhealthy function.


From my experience and living with an Fi and having lived with Fi all my life we are best served operating in parallel side by side as a team accomplishing tasks helping each other when needed. Most of my family is Fi whether it be dom, aux, tert...not many inferior Fi.


Actually me and my GF has went over the whole not feel right and I can explain why it doesn't feel right and why at times. I have made statements and she feels them out...but she can't shake it because it doesn't "FEEL" right even though it is right. It just means she doesn't like it. We had this discussion when I said feelings are nothing more then opinions. Just like thoughts are nothing more then opinion. We have to process and obtain more data and such to find the truths. The issues arise with Fi and other users when it believes it's minimal processing Fi is truth..this happens more with someone who isn't a dom. A dom will question their Fi more then any other because they are after the truth. I personally use my Fi as an input into myself and how I feel. I operate off of Ti though. I don't knock my feelings for being wrong nor do I question it. I look at why and create a mapping of all the details to the feeling. My GF says there are things I know about her that she doesn't even know because it's just the way she operates. It's funny when arguments...more discussions end abruptly because I tell her how she is, how I am and we are different. I refuse to do what she does for reasons XYZ and can explain how it has helped her, but also how it traps her.

 

[Amargith]

Actually, this is going back on my own experience. And I only speak to one INTJ these days and he aint too interested in typology

I'll admit that Te can get really impatient with Fi, too - but the difference is that if I push back, at best, they totally understand where I'm coming from. If not, I'll use Te to halt them and then put them in their place using Fi - and 90 percent of the time, they'll get it and lay off (because they too usually value Free Will) or they'll get that their impatience isn't welcome and at worst they'll toss their arms up in the air and leave me alone, writing me off as a hopeless case. This I can work with.

Fe, instead, starts invalidating you and your judgement, sussing you and treating you like a child that needs placating and just more 'guidance' to do the right thing. And then they start emotionally manipulating you to mold to the version of yourself *they*'ve envisioned, using carrot and stick, with a healthy dollop of guilt. Meanwhile Ti seems to have this thing about hounding you till you yield in exhaustion to their truth, just to get them to go away. The combination of the two is...

That's where I blow up. It's taken me a long time to dare to push back against this, but I'm now at the point where I realise just how much work they will and can cost me if I let them get to me, and it pisses me off royally. Coz once I give in, they go their merry way - and I'm stuck cleaning up the mess and redoing all the work.

Again, Ive also had positive experiences with TiFe users being incredibly supporting and complimentary in our work together - this is especially true if we work side by side, as peers, on the same project but with different departments that support each other in the greater good. And then the cooperation is indeed

 

[Poki]

Actually, this is going back on my own experience. And I only speak to one INTJ these days and he aint too interested in typology

I'll admit that Te can get really impatient with Fi, too - but the difference is that if I push back, at best, they totally understand where I'm coming from. If not, I'll use Te to halt them and then put them in their place using Fi - and 90 percent of the time, they'll get it and lay off (because they too usually value Free Will) or they'll get that their impatience isn't welcome and at worst they'll toss their arms up in the air and leave me alone, writing me off as a hopeless case. This I can work with.

Fe, instead, starts invalidating you and your judgement, sussing you and treating you like a child that needs placating and just more 'guidance' to do the right thing. And then they start emotionally manipulating you to mold to the version of yourself *they*'ve envisioned, using carrot and stick, with a healthy dollop of guilt. Meanwhile Ti seems to have this thing about hounding you till you yield in exhaustion to their truth, just to get them to go away. The combination of the two is...

That's where I blow up. It's taken me a long time to dare to push back against this, but I'm now at the point where I realise just how much work they will and can cost me if I let them get to me, and it pisses me off royally. Coz once I give in, they go their merry way - and I'm stuck cleaning up the mess and redoing all the work.

Again, Ive also had positive experiences with TiFe users being incredibly supporting and complimentary in our work together - this is especially true if we work side by side, as peers, on the same project but with different departments that support each other in the greater good. And then the cooperation is indeed

I am actually working with my GF on how to find good people. She relies to much on her functions which honestly suck at recognizing good. She has created to many correlations and not enough understanding. This is irregardless of type and reading actions and words better. Less running with an idea outside of reality due to correlation.

We got into a discussion the other night about people. To her people are good until proven otherwise. I disagreed and she argued until I said people are neutral until you get to now them and can actually judge them for who they are. Then she said...I can agree with that.

 

[magpie]

Most of you havent even read all of my post , maybe you stopped reading after having read the title because you were too butthurt .
If you had read my post you d realise that my rant is directed at unhealthy Fi not healthy Fi.
(Its funny though that Fi doms havent even provided a logical counter argument, they are just angry at me, you kinda prove my point there lol)

We haven't provided logical counter arguments? Why would I, an unhealthy Fi user, argue with something as paltry and changeable as your opinions and assumptions? You're entitled to think what you want. It doesn't effect me very much, though occasionally you might say something that provides entertainment value, which is lovely. Arguing doesn't seem very logical to me.

 

[Bush]

We haven't provided logical counter arguments? Why would I, an unhealthy Fi user, argue with something as paltry and changeable as your opinions and assumptions? You're entitled to think what you want. It doesn't effect me very much, though occasionally you might say something that provides entertainment value, which is lovely. Arguing doesn't seem very logical to me.

Same. I don't know what the hell this is all even about. I'd asked my question above in earnest, rather than out of sarcasm, because I wonder what the hell this is all even about.