[MBTI General] E-S Rant...

[Provoker]

Well, I just got home from a family gathering and would like to expose a few of the MB variables that irritated me tonight. I'm not sure if other INTJs share the same view but here it is.

Let's start with E. My grandma (E*FP) and aunt (E*FJ) are both Es to an overwhelming degree. My grandma in particular never stops talking and will go into 20(30?) minute story-telling sililoquys at times. In effect, it takes work just to listen to her sometimes. Basically, as I entered this particular environment (my dad's house which isn't very big) I shook hands and kissed every person I walked passed as I made my way from the front door to the kitchen. Within seconds of entering the house I was bombarded with questions, etc. In particular, my sensor-literal aunt asks if I would like anything to eat and I respond absent-mindedly "no I had some pizza on the way here to tie me off for a bit". Then she starts correcting me saying "tide me over" and I said "you're right and smiled" and continued what I was physically doing (getting coke from the fridge) and then she commented again on how "atleast her kids think she's funny".

Then my cousin asks how university is going and my stupid grandma chuckles in her British (I was born with a better pot to piss in) condescending laugh. This was just plain rude. To be sure, I'm not harping on sensors or extraverts in this case, but people who cannot be happy or proud of others. I am always quiet around this side of the family because they have a hidden contempt for what I'm trying to do in life. I am sorry that my wanting to get into a prestigeous law school makes you feel shitty about your situation - it's not my problem.

Moreover, a few days before this my grandma made dinner and I was just trying to be polite by saying "thanks grandma this looks really great" before eating it and she responds seriously "sometimes you have to taste things before making judgements" to which I gave a stale facial expression. The moment I let my guard down and just try to be a nice person this is the kind of bullshit I have to deal with. But when I keep my guard up, the EFs will try to pick at me to get an emotional response.

 

[6sticks]

It's "tide me over".

/smartass response

 

[Isb]

Rant is ok...

I don't know about the context that you are in or anything, but your relatives' responses would likely have been pretty incomprehensible to me..

My dad is a E*FP as well and actually my best friend is E*FP. They are truly great and supportive people in my perspective [but then, I am a INFJ].

But then there are always people who cannot be proud of others, whatever types they are. I am in law school myself. I do at times notice some sort of contempt for intellectual/academic pursuit [especially in North America; this generalization may not be accurate, but being originally from Taiwan I've seen fewer instances of this type of contempt there].

ivory tower..."you think too much"...etc.

But being an INTJ yourself, I suppose you may just march ahead toward your testination and valiantly push aside those useless, negative attitudes. [My march is more sluggish; it might be the "F" thing..] Anyway, best of luck to you!

Feel free to ask me questions about law schools. I am studying law in Canada though, so I am not sure how much of a help I may be.

 

[Provoker]

I don't know about the context that you are in or anything, but your relatives' responses would likely have been pretty incomprehensible to me..

My dad is a E*FP as well and actually my best friend is E*FP. They are truly great and supportive people in my perspective [but then, I am a INFJ].

But then there are always people who cannot be proud of others, whatever types they are. I am in law school myself. I do at times notice some sort of contempt for intellectual/academic pursuit [especially in North America; this generalization may not be accurate, but being originally from Taiwan I've seen fewer instances of this type of contempt there].

ivory tower..."you think too much"...etc.

But being an INTJ yourself, I suppose you may just march ahead toward your testination and valiantly push aside those useless, negative attitudes. [My march is more sluggish; it might be the "F" thing..] Anyway, best of luck to you!

Feel free to ask me questions about law schools. I am studying law in Canada though, so I am not sure how much of a help I may be.

Hey bud,

I appreciate the feedback. I'm in Canada too...I'm taking the LSAT on Oct 4th and I'm going to be applying to most (if not all) schools in Ontario. I'll private message you so we can get a dialogue going on this.

I think you're spot on about North American culture having a contempt for intellectual/academic pursuits. In a nutshell, work tends to be seen as more honorable than intellectual pursuits. In my case, my mom's side of the family values higher education and is really proud of me for choosing this route and always encourages me and provides me with support.

On my dad's side, all I get is opposition and negativity. They'd have more respect for a chimney sweeper then a P.h.D. student so long as the chimney sweeper is working (note I have nothing against chimney sweepers). My grandma has gone into stories about how education is not what it used to be - meaning any idiot can get a degree now (not that she got one). Her carnivorous chuckle that I mentioned before can be interpreted to mean (he goes to school...he does fuck all). When I say there is underlying contempt - this is the closeminded mentality I'm talking about. My gf came over around my birthday and my dad was going on about how he can't see the value in what I'm doing (even she notices it).

Then, when I show up at these family gatherings it's trench warfare. I try to just stay quiet and smile so I don't get frustrated but this is the type of family that will poke and goad a person until he or she finally snaps.

For these people, spending 7 or 8 years in school is only meaningful when I am pulling up in a Lexus or Porsche. That is to say, success is not measured by intellectual accomplishment but by sheer materialism, and I think this is rather tragic. I consider myself to be a post-materialist: I value things in life such as self-actualization. In fact, I consider people caught up in a purely materialist mindset something to be pitied and I remind myself that I never want to become like that.

 

[Isb]

Feel free to private message me. I study law in BC but I applied to Ontario schools before as well. So I suppose I may be able to give you some info on that. Feel free to ask me about LSAT too (though I confess I didn't get very high scores on LSAT). Hope you successfully conquer that ugly LSAT beast;-)

I agree with you on your point about sheer materialism. I've met people at law school who are driven much more by their materialistic desire than intellectual thirst, and I've found it difficult to talk with them. I guard myself against that kind of mindset and try not to let my frustration show when I have to interact with those kinds of people. But then, as long as they are happy with what they aim for, I guess it's fine-- If I keep in mind “you go your way and I go my way, and I wish you well” this kind of attitude, the frustration is less. But I suppose family gatherings are much harder to manage, since one “has” to be there.

But I do notice that my SP dad and friend are more materialistic than me. It’s quite understandable, though, and they have other values and qualities that make them very supportive people. However my SP friend has been getting more materialistic lately. I wonder if this is a stress sign though, since I know she has become somewhat disillusioned with her career path and she is not getting recognition for her work at the workplace. It might be that she is trying to get substitute satisfaction from materialistic things so as to avoid facing her problems head on. She has a rather difficult situation though and I do hope she can find some ways to try to resolve it.

Btw, now I just wonder why North American culture has a contempt for intellectual/academic pursuits (if you are still interested in this topic). Can the answers be found in historical developments (economics, social structure, cultural trans/formation, etc)? My own theory is that Chinese culture values academic achievements [and, regrettably and unjustifiably, devalues other types of achievements] maybe because of the history of standardized national examinations for posts in the imperial government of ancient China. But even in this case, academic pursuits might not have been motivated by intellectual curiosity, since they led to prestige and wealth that came with the government posts..

I don’t mean to criticize materialism; I am only frustrated when it becomes excessive-

 

[booyalab]

Then she starts correcting me saying "tide me over" and I said "you're right and smiled" and continued what I was physically doing (getting coke from the fridge) and then she commented again on how "atleast her kids think she's funny".

My ESFJ mom is attention-deprived like that, except she can't get me to laugh at her jokes most of the time, so she saves them for all of the poor sales clerks she comes across whenever we go shopping. I even tell her that they're only laughing to be polite, but she doesn't care.