[INTJ] About a supposedly INTJ...

[Forever]

So I'm in college, and one of my classmates has identified himself as an INTJ.

His main beliefs are:
* that reason is the only way to understand life, any other way is wrong or silly.
* he will refuse to talk to anyone who is not willing to reason.
* you can learn a lot from anime in terms of the themes that they teach.
* believes that society would work best if hyper-masculinzed (sorry if that is not a word).
* find it funny that no one would want to imagine the situations he has given them (catastrophic attacks as an example)
* black and white thinking. Either it is or it is not.

So I guess here is the thing:

Do you INTJ's agree with his thinking? I sure don't. I mean I am more concerned about Fe in general with things. Do you think he is an INTJ? Other types are welcome to pitch in with this though. However, this is not necessarily a debate is what I want to get started really, you're free to express your opinion if you wish to.

Thank you.

 

[BadOctopus]

He sounds like an extremely immature INTJ. They are very black and white in their thinking, and are so obsessed with "reason" (or at least their own personal version of it) that they are unwilling to entertain any opposing viewpoints. Ironically, they end up sounding just as irrational as the so-called "emotional" people they so often deride.

And no, I don't agree with him. I value reason and common sense very highly. But I also recognize that emotions have value, and are just as valid. And to ignore or deny them would be, well... illogical.

 

[Forever]

He sounds like an extremely immature INTJ. They are very black and white in their thinking, and are so obsessed with "reason" (or at least their own personal version of it) that they are unwilling to entertain any opposing viewpoints. Ironically, they end up sounding just as irrational as the so-called "emotional" people they so often deride.

And no, I don't agree with him. I value reason and common sense very highly. But I also recognize that emotions have value, and are just as valid. And to ignore or deny them would be, well... illogical.

Exactly! Thank you [MENTION=23115]BadOctopus[/MENTION], I'm glad to hear that as that is a very satisfying answer. That just clicked so well in my mind. I see him contradict himself because he gets offended by my opposing viewpoints and just ignores me rather than giving me more logic/reason which he is no longer "objective."

I would too value those very highly. Especially I'd see you INTJ's value emotions even more because of Fi (introverted feeling) which are definitely your own and emotions clearly reflect on your worldview. So yeah, it is essentially denying your own logic.

 

[Opal]

Sounds STJ.

 

[Forever]

Sounds STJ.

Possible. Just more open to theories than an STJ would?

 

[Opal]

Possible. Just more open to theories than an STJ would?

I don't really know. Ni doms are usually entrenched in personal fantasy/subjective conceptions of reality, which they trust more than and prefer to currently established understanding... so when you say he supports masculinity, it makes me skeptical of Ni dominance.

Second-hand typing is almost pointless, though.

 

[Forever]

I don't really know. Ni doms are usually entrenched in personal fantasy/subjective conceptions of reality, which they trust more than and prefer to currently established understanding... so when you say he supports masculinity, it makes me skeptical of Ni dominance.

Second-hand typing is almost pointless, though.

Interesting. You make a good point though. He is a very grounded person, he says sometimes he feels like he's in both worlds, but it always appear outwardly more grounded like he knows what he is talking about when talking. He sometimes doesn't even notice me and complains that I don't notice him, when clearly I wave at him and doesn't pay attention, so I just reciprocate being the easiest route haha.

 

[Forever]

Anyone else? How would a healthy INTJ view the world?

 

[BadOctopus]

Anyone else? How would a healthy INTJ view the world?

I would say a healthy INTJ would exhibit these traits:

• Would have a realistic view of themselves, rather than thinking they are superior to others
• Would engage in the world around them, instead of being stuck in the inner world of their head
• Would recognize and listen to their own emotions, rather than denying or suppressing them
• Would not take criticism personally, but would be open to other ideas and opinions
• Would not be overly critical of others, but would realize that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses (including themselves)
• Would be able to control their temper (This is an important one. You wouldn't think of INTJs as being hot-headed, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen an INTJ become volatile, impatient, and downright nasty when they don't get their way.)
• Would have good social skills, and be able to converse with others

That being said, INTJs are always going to be rather serious, reserved, analytical, and independent people. That's just the way they are. But if they are healthy INTJs, those tendencies won't be taken to extreme levels.

Hope that answers your question!

 

[ceecee]

Anyone else? How would a healthy INTJ view the world?

There is a big difference between healthy and mature. He sounds immature. This is what a mature INTJ thinks...

* that reason is the only way to understand life, any other way is wrong or silly. - No. There is no one way to understand life and the more life you live, the more obvious that becomes.
* he will refuse to talk to anyone who is not willing to reason. - I can understand this but, is the reason he using sound? Probably no because refusing to talk to people because of <insert reason>.
* you can learn a lot from anime in terms of the themes that they teach. I've never watched any anime and I'm sure you can learn plenty without it.
* believes that society would work best if hyper-masculinzed (sorry if that is not a word). - <laughs>
* find it funny that no one would want to imagine the situations he has given them (catastrophic attacks as an example) Lots of people don't want to imagine a catastrophic scenario for lots of reasons. I guess more info on what he specifically meant and why would be helpful.
* black and white thinking. Either it is or it is not.
- Again, the more life you live, the more you see that this is almost never the case in any situation.

 

[Rambling]

I would say a healthy INTJ would exhibit these traits:

• Would have a realistic view of themselves, rather than thinking they are superior to others
• Would engage in the world around them, instead of being stuck in the inner world of their head
• Would recognize and listen to their own emotions, rather than denying or suppressing them
• Would not take criticism personally, but would be open to other ideas and opinions
• Would not be overly critical of others, but would realize that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses (including themselves)
• Would be able to control their temper (This is an important one. You wouldn't think of INTJs as being hot-headed, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen an INTJ become volatile, impatient, and downright nasty when they don't get their way.)
• Would have good social skills, and be able to converse with others

That being said, INTJs are always going to be rather serious, reserved, analytical, and independent people. That's just the way they are. But if they are healthy INTJs, those tendencies won't be taken to extreme levels.

Hope that answers your question!

Well, that's a good list. And several points there I still need to work on.

Now, at what level of health and maturity are you going to take away my death stare and my bookcase, replacing them with deprecating smiles and noisy parties?

 

[Forever]

I would say a healthy INTJ would exhibit these traits:

• Would have a realistic view of themselves, rather than thinking they are superior to others
• Would engage in the world around them, instead of being stuck in the inner world of their head
• Would recognize and listen to their own emotions, rather than denying or suppressing them
• Would not take criticism personally, but would be open to other ideas and opinions
• Would not be overly critical of others, but would realize that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses (including themselves)
• Would be able to control their temper (This is an important one. You wouldn't think of INTJs as being hot-headed, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen an INTJ become volatile, impatient, and downright nasty when they don't get their way.)
• Would have good social skills, and be able to converse with others

That being said, INTJs are always going to be rather serious, reserved, analytical, and independent people. That's just the way they are. But if they are healthy INTJs, those tendencies won't be taken to extreme levels.

Hope that answers your question!

Yes, I have seen some growth over a period of time in him where in some areas he is maturing, such as meeting new people. It's just it doesn't last long if it's going to get serious. Any steps to help him grow?

There is a big difference between healthy and mature. He sounds immature. This is what a mature INTJ thinks...

* that reason is the only way to understand life, any other way is wrong or silly. - No. There is no one way to understand life and the more life you live, the more obvious that becomes.
* he will refuse to talk to anyone who is not willing to reason. - I can understand this but, is the reason he using sound? Probably no because refusing to talk to people because of <insert reason>.
* you can learn a lot from anime in terms of the themes that they teach. I've never watched any anime and I'm sure you can learn plenty without it.
* believes that society would work best if hyper-masculinzed (sorry if that is not a word). - <laughs>
* find it funny that no one would want to imagine the situations he has given them (catastrophic attacks as an example) Lots of people don't want to imagine a catastrophic scenario for lots of reasons. I guess more info on what he specifically meant and why would be helpful.
* black and white thinking. Either it is or it is not.
- Again, the more life you live, the more you see that this is almost never the case in any situation.

Okay [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION], here's your response *again* (@BadOctopus ), I definitely agree that there are many ways to understand the world. I don't think he only uses anime, but it is one of his own favorites. On the catastrophic things was only one example I think, however he is primarily interested in different forms or modes of government. People are too relaxed with the government these days and depend on it for certain things, sounds very un-Ti like. With that hyper masculinized theory, he just stopped talking about it like it never happened.

 

[BadOctopus]

Yes, I have seen some growth over a period of time in him where in some areas he is maturing, such as meeting new people. It's just it doesn't last long if it's going to get serious. Any steps to help him grow?

Everyone matures in different ways and at different paces. I don't think you can make anyone grow up.

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to help this guy? From the way you describe him, he sounds like a total tool.

Also, I'm so sorry, but I accidentally edited your last post instead of quoting it! You might want to reply to ceecee's post again. So sorry about that. I'm a dope.

 

[Opal]

I would say a healthy INTJ would exhibit these traits:

• Would have a realistic view of themselves, rather than thinking they are superior to others
• Would engage in the world around them, instead of being stuck in the inner world of their head
• Would recognize and listen to their own emotions, rather than denying or suppressing them
• Would not take criticism personally, but would be open to other ideas and opinions
• Would not be overly critical of others, but would realize that everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses (including themselves)
• Would be able to control their temper (This is an important one. You wouldn't think of INTJs as being hot-headed, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen an INTJ become volatile, impatient, and downright nasty when they don't get their way.)
• Would have good social skills, and be able to converse with others

That being said, INTJs are always going to be rather serious, reserved, analytical, and independent people. That's just the way they are. But if they are healthy INTJs, those tendencies won't be taken to extreme levels.

Hope that answers your question!

Would, or (in your opinion) should?

Ni-doms trust their abstract conceptions above those offered by others. As they socialize, they will learn to mask this.
Fi is the INTJ's weakest (non-shadow) function. Being out of touch with emotions and ethical opinions is normal.
Most INTJs never develop the Fe and Se necessary to have "good social skills."

 

[BadOctopus]

Most INTJs never develop the Fe and Se necessary to have "good social skills."

It's true, I'll never be the life of the party. How about "adequate" social skills? I'd be content with being adequate, at least.

 

[Opal]

It's true, I'll never be the life of the party. How about "adequate" social skills? I'd be content with being adequate, at least.

Aw, you seem pretty charismatic, based on what I've seen of you.

 

[Coriolis]

Well, that's a good list. And several points there I still need to work on.

Now, at what level of health and maturity are you going to take away my death stare and my bookcase, replacing them with deprecating smiles and noisy parties?

Never!

Besides, that would be at odds with having a realistic view of ourselves, and even perhaps of listening to one's own emotions.

 

[chubber]

So I'm in college, and one of my classmates has identified himself as an INTJ.

His main beliefs are:
* that reason is the only way to understand life, any other way is wrong or silly.
* he will refuse to talk to anyone who is not willing to reason.
* you can learn a lot from anime in terms of the themes that they teach.
* believes that society would work best if hyper-masculinzed (sorry if that is not a word).
* find it funny that no one would want to imagine the situations he has given them (catastrophic attacks as an example)
* black and white thinking. Either it is or it is not.

So I guess here is the thing:

Do you INTJ's agree with his thinking? I sure don't. I mean I am more concerned about Fe in general with things. Do you think he is an INTJ? Other types are welcome to pitch in with this though. However, this is not necessarily a debate is what I want to get started really, you're free to express your opinion if you wish to.

Thank you.

young Ti-Dom, provoke his Ne.

 

[Pionart]

I thought ESTJ because of focus on reason, but idk

 

[Forever]

Everyone matures in different ways and at different paces. I don't think you can make anyone grow up.

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to help this guy? From the way you describe him, he sounds like a total tool.

Also, I'm so sorry, but I accidentally edited your last post instead of quoting it! You might want to reply to ceecee's post again. So sorry about that. I'm a dope.

So, he's one of the few who actually approaches me, (I think I have resting bitch face syndrome/*just learned* asshole resting face for us men!) and I'm usually a lonely guy anyway, it'd be nice to make a friendship with him if possible, a friend is a friend after all. *smiles, rainbows, unicorns and whatnot*

young Ti-Dom, provoke his Ne.

I have thought that seriously, because he does love thinking, laughs heavily at the notion of conspiracy theories, makes a face when someone doesn't make sense or can't use an analogy right. So that could be inferior Fe, as he also does too try to be a gentleman with everyone. Makes me wonder if his Fe is better than mine, but he lives a very lonely life too. Tells me to express my feelings and let it not hide and don't care what people think about it. It seems his own logic seems to be personal (Ji) He hides his own feelings of course. Ne-wise, he seems to keep jumping from new things and theories, he's actually quite bored of MBTI and Carl Jung (made me sad, because that's like one of the only things I care about in life) loves politics (isn't that more of an Ne-orientation?)
However he says he quite respects authorities and rules and hates it when people try to do their own thing.. so could be xSTJ too (@Legion)?