ENTPs and Developing One-Pointedness

[Ilah]

Since when you are iNTj @Ilah ?

You are so iNFj and what have we talked about not thinking too much about oneself, if not wanting to become crazy ?

I think I was born this way. And I tested INTJ on 4 tests I took. I thought I was INTP for a little bit though.

What makes you think I am F, not T? I have never been very good at the emotion stuff, though I do make the effort. And I try to be polite so I don't scare too many people off.

Actually, I only scared one person away from a webgroup (not this one) - that I know of - and she had some major self esteme issues.

Ilah

[entropie]

well you think too much, to test as an F. But from what I have seen from your posts you get fairly deeply into the human soul (your human soul) and some posts were really touching.

Cant give you a definite answer to your questions, but my bet is you are iNFj. That's what fits you well

[booya moon]

I used to be pretty unfocused, but I have really improved since I got a more responsible job (by that I mean more people depending on my ability to finish things)

My secret is the little black notebook (Moleskin to be more exact). I usually get lots of ideas while working on a project and I have a great urge to investigate these new things, but of course that means not focusing on the original project, ... you get the idea
So when I get a new idea, instead of pursuing it immediately, I write it down in my notebook for later time - so I can deal with it when I finish the current project(s).

Also you have to find out what your limits are. For example, I found out I can work on (and finish) up to three projects at the same. If I go above this limit, things usually do not turn out too good

Hope this helps

[Wrath Mania]

The key to finishing projects for me is to have feedback and interaction with others. I wrote a long story back in the day, and the only reason I finished it over one summer was because I had people constantly critiquing and reading it. It was exciting to see how they saw my ideas and plot devices. I could tell you the best way for an ENTP to work is to hone their Introverted Thinking, but that would be a lie and ultimately a fruitless statement. The best way to get stuff done is to make it more than just an exciting concept: make it a dialogue with others who are interested.

[Ilah]

well you think too much, to test as an F. But from what I have seen from your posts you get fairly deeply into the human soul (your human soul) and some posts were really touching.

Cant give you a definite answer to your questions, but my bet is you are iNFj. That's what fits you well

Spirituality seems to be based of my N. I am not saying it works that way for other people, but that is how it works for me. Sometimes I can sense a spiritual presence or energy. Often I am drawn to specific spiritual or metaphyscial things. If I had to put this into MBTI terms it seems to fit most into N.

Ilah

[Ilah]

An amendment to my previous post. I just took a cognitive process test on line. My top results were Ni, Ne, Te, Fi in that order. However, the numbers for the tope 4 were very close, Ni was within 3 points of Fi. Te and Fi were almost tied at 41 and 40.8. Assuming the test was correct and that the top 4 scores were close to tied, I could be almost anything that didn't have an S. Well not quite anything, but I see 4 possibilities, ignoring things not allowed by MBTI like NiFi and NeTe.

NiTe = INTJ
TeNi = ENTJ
NeFi = ENFP
FiNe = INFP

Not INFJ though because my Fe was really low.

Ilah

[Samuel De Mazarin]

. . . . If you plan the abstract finish line farther than the concrete one, it's easier to cross the concrete one before you decide the abstract one isn't worth your while any longer.
. . . .

Hmmm... that's not bad at all... feed your ambition all the fantasies it wants (in twenty years I'll get the Nobel Prize), but while you're dangling that carrot in front of your impulsive side, you get down to the details... (that's how my mind interprets what you wrote!!!)

. . . .
The pure, raw "focus" you seek only happens to me when a task or project bears a very, very REAL sense of urgency. Meaning, serious consequences if it's not done. The moment I find out the so-called "urgency" is contrived from someone pushing my buttons my mental focus starts to cloud with static.

YES! I need to keep reminding myself of why something is important... that's something I'll keep in mind... why I am I doing this? I'm amazing (albeit very stressed) when I have deadlines imposed from outside... I have to get this paper done by x time or I'm maxing out with a B in this course... no matter what, I get it done and I'm typically happy with the result...

URGENCY... a good word...

As an ENTP the way to finish what you've started is basically to let thinking come in and slap intuition around whenever it wants to start a new project or just give up.

. . . .
Stick with it until the end and don't give up.

"Hey wait something really cool just came up, and I want to do that too." No! *smack* Don't do that. Don't give up your goal. Even if you aren't interested in it anymore don't give up. Even when it gets painful don't give up. Let me tell you it will get painful. Don't...give...up!

This is why it's important to focus on only one project at a time. It would be too stressful to try to do this for more than one thing. You've got to focus on that one thing and don't give up.

That is also why thinking is important. Your intuition is impulsive. Thinking will remind you of the reward at the end of the project. It may not feel fun anymore, but thinking can tell you that you'll actually get something by seeing it through til the end. Thinking is ultimately what lets you finish projects.

Yes... this is so in sync with the concrete, with the urgent... and my Fe is loving the fact that you've caught on something really key for me...

IT'S PAINFUL... psychologically painful... when I have to keep doing the same project for a long period of time... it's something I have to suffer...

You'd be a great motivational speaker, LL... you really got me intense about finishing my projects with the way you wrote here...

I have found that the best way to do this to forget thinking in terms of a means to an end. In fact forget the end completely. Nothing is ever finished because with each step the information changes and new possibilities present themselves in which one thing can lead to another. However if you stop something before it is finished you gained nothing and the possibilities for growth are limited.

After years of feeling like I kept repeating life with no growth, except maybe a reasonable knowledge, to show for it I began to focus on the levels of actualization. By keeping the bigger picture in mind it has helped me to realize that all the things I must complete now are not indefinite but necessary. Without an immediate end in sight my goals have become larger and my interest necessary for the bigger picture.

I get shit done.

I'm confused... I thought you said to forget the end, but then you say to keep the bigger picture in mind... I'm going to work this in with the prior posts somehow...

On second thought you get to a point where you know how stuff works and you start to focus on where this goes.

I get it... but it's the motivation to stick to it which gets me...

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Today I mainly try to stay focussed by destroying my world. If there is an important thing to be brought to an end, I firstly measure, how good I am at it, in comparing me to others. On this part I was not really good, cause I have always thought of me being just not good enough. Some day that changend and I lost track of the others. Pretty entered some world of my own. Today there are only few times, I get to compare with others and mostly it is by accident or because it is not avoidable. To say the least, I have grown independent from people's opinions. That firstly sounds bad, but it helped me in getting down with my goals.

The second thing I do, when faced with too much input, I go crazy about it. I cut everyone unnecessary off and pull off everyone that wants to get near me, to start lamenting about my lone existence. When then I reach the point, I get bored of lamenting, I start focussing on the things I do under the tragic premisse, what other things are left ?
. . . .

Ah... I empathize... you've hit on something crucial here... the need for approbation... in lucid moments I understand why it is I want to do certain things for themselves, but most of the time I get immersed in the expectation of how the world will see me and my work... and then I get frustrated, because I see everything else the rest of the world has accomplished and is accomplishing even as we speak and I get completely overwhelmed by negativity... and I shut myself in a room... I need to think about why it is that I want to do something... maybe envision myself in a deserted island and understanding what it is that would make me happy under those circumstances... then try to fit it into the real world... which might make me focus less on others and more on my self... because in the end no one can help me realize my projects...

I am INTJ and I have problems with this too.
. . . .
One thing I have done is to tell myself that I can still do everything I want to do. I have a couple little note books and when I see new things that interest me, I write it down and tell myself it is on the list of things to do or study. Even though it may be years before I get to it, telling myself later, rather than no, makes it easier. I don't know if I will get to everything on my list. I started it this month and there is already about 10 to 20 years worth of stuff on it.

I also allow myself small exceptions to the keeping focused. For example, I choose personality types as the 2 year focus for my study. So all the non-fiction books I read in the next 2 years will be on this subject. However, I still read internet articles on various subjects that catch my interest. If it looks intreging I will put it on my list of things to study more in depth.

Ilah

This is a great idea, Ilah! I mean, I write a lot... but I generally get very antsy about listing what it is I like and want to do... in a more Benjamin Franklin sort of way... and I can see how it would be extremely helpful in putting things into perspective... frankly, when it's swimming around in my head, I find it easier to procrastinate on any one thing and to pretend that everything will somehow get done... I get caught up in magical thinking and forget about the practicalities of life and work... since one has to work hard to get things done... which goes back to LL's point about the pain (for people like us) of actually focusing on one thing..


Though I imagine that after one crosses a certain threshold, habit takes over and allows us to get over the pain of monotony and to appreciate the growth that's constantly taking place as a result of our consistently putting in more and more effort into a single task... which becomes something different... the reward comes, I gather, often when one's completely forgotten about it....

I used to be pretty unfocused, but I have really improved since I got a more responsible job (by that I mean more people depending on my ability to finish things)

My secret is the little black notebook (Moleskin to be more exact). I usually get lots of ideas while working on a project and I have a great urge to investigate these new things, but of course that means not focusing on the original project, ... you get the idea
So when I get a new idea, instead of pursuing it immediately, I write it down in my notebook for later time - so I can deal with it when I finish the current project(s).

Also you have to find out what your limits are. For example, I found out I can work on (and finish) up to three projects at the same. If I go above this limit, things usually do not turn out too good

Hope this helps

Yes.... it does help! Ilah and you have reinforced each other's excellent strategy... something that I've been loathe to do... but I am going to start doing that...

And how very awesome of you... Moleskin notebooks... I had one of those and it was fantastic.... but imagine this... I scrawled tons of stuff on ten pages and now I have no idea where it is!

I'm going to definitely try this... it'll certainly make things more concrete and allow me to better understand my limits, since I'll actually be having to account for my progress on paper as opposed to simply thinking away 'results' by pushing them into the fog of a hundred ideas...

The key to finishing projects for me is to have feedback and interaction with others. I wrote a long story back in the day, and the only reason I finished it over one summer was because I had people constantly critiquing and reading it. It was exciting to see how they saw my ideas and plot devices. I could tell you the best way for an ENTP to work is to hone their Introverted Thinking, but that would be a lie and ultimately a fruitless statement. The best way to get stuff done is to make it more than just an exciting concept: make it a dialogue with others who are interested.

That's good... I actually wanted to get an e-mail list going back in college with friends, where we'd bat around ideas from any discipline, people would give each other feedback... an e-mail creative workshop, but the range was anywhere from ideas for novels and short stories to experimental rock bands and quartets... I got totally derailed by drinking...

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Thank you all! Of course, this thread isn't only for me... it's for everyone... there's a lot of people out there with this problem... and I'm sure I'll be coming back to this thread in a few months with positive feedback on the aids... let's see how I do... college is starting up in a couple of weeks, so there'll be plenty of things for me to juggle and I'll see if I can keep up with schoolwork while still giving into some of my wayward projects... we need diverse stimulation, our kind...

[LucrativeSid]

Here are some random thoughts on the subject:

If you're not interested in something anymore, why do you want to keep going with it? The experience and knowledge knowledge from your last expedition will help on your next. Are you worried that you're just not reaching your potential? What do you think you're missing that you're trying gain?

If you like creating businesses, you might build them, sell them, and move on. It's always fun and challenging this way. Is this perceived as a bad practice? You're actually doing one thing, it just looks very jumbled in the real world.

You could always start a project that never ends, but that always challenges and inspires you. My website is an example of that.

Question your motive for doing something. If you foresee that what you're seeking will be easy to obtain, then perhaps you've got the wrong approach. For example, if you play basketball to impress chicks. Skip the basketball, skip impressing the chicks, and just build your self-esteem, cus that's what you're really after.

I'm pretty scattered myself. The main problem is that I usually quit doing something right before I'm able to get the maximum benefit from it. Like if you roll a rock up a hill 90% and then quit. All it takes is another 10%, then the downhill will be easy. I guess it all depends on what you want out of it.

I've started and quit a few things, including sports, websites, and small businesses. Nothing too special so don't ask me to explain them.