OK ENTPs...

[runvardh]

omg. is a girl involved? this sounds like a love thing.

Eh, that is where the stress is coming from, guaranteed. The issue I was getting annoyed about is more a side issue that has just recently been resolved ^_^

[runvardh]

If someone said that to me I would get frusterated with them. Part of my sloving problems it to tumble it around in my mind simplifying it and organizing as I go. If I am talking to someone it is because I no longer have the capasity to break it down to satisfaction. I can't see an answer and will pry for new info to consider. As others offer their opinions of solution I will tumble their ideas as well and can quickly disregaurd them if A) I have already thought of and discredited the idea or B) it is not relevant to the end I have in mind.

When I am doing this I am trying to fix the problem.

So your statement would make me mad because you didn't realize that I was trying to fix it, and didn't offer any relevant ideas. And "I'm sorry was I bothering you with trying to fix something that you can't see the answer to either?"

Not proud but probable.

Eh, I guess really I've just been tapped out by 6 months of him having girl troubles that this newer issue was a straw about to break the camel's back...

[INA]

My reaction: thanks, I needed that.

[substitute]

Say you are having an issue with something and you have a quiet somewhat supportive roommate who you've been going on about this issue with. Suddenly he turns around and tells you to quit bitching or or solve the problem. What's your reaction?

Firstly I'd be surprised to have given someone cause to say that, since 99% of the time the FIRST thing I do is solve the problem and get precious little satisfaction out of talking about it unless it's with a view to solving it.

The reason I might talk about it prior to solving it might be to bounce it off someone else to see what they can come out with that I might not've thought of before. And also to figure things out and put them into perspective by seeing the reactions of the other person to what I say.

When I have a problem I usually start from a default position of thinking it's "just me", and that my feelings are probably irrational and unreasonable and best just rationalized away. If it gets to a point when I'm talking to someone about it, it's usually because I've been trying to rationalize it but it's not working, so I need to hear another person's view as to whether my feeling that this a) is a problem, b) needs to be addressed and c) can be solved, is actually valid.

I've usually considered every perspective I can think of before I start to talk about it with another person, and am very well aware of the views, feelings and needs of other people involved in the issue. Those awarenesses have been what was holding me back from acting, because my tendency when balancing my emotional needs against those of others tends to be that if someone's gonna make the sacrifice and not be entirely happy with a situation, it's gonna be me because after all I'm the flexible one, I'm the one that can usually find a way to make most situations workable for me whilst others seem to have more particular needs.

So what I don't need is the other person telling me the other people's points of view, and replying to my expressions of my POV things like "but they're probably just feeling like..." and other excuses/whatever for the other people's behaviour. I've already considered all of that. What I'm wondering is whether there's any validity to my point of view. That's what I need help with.

Until I can get some help with that, I'll hold back from acting and just keep trying to rationalize and flex around everyone else, no matter how much anger, resentment or frustration it causes me to have to keep on blocking and bottling up and ignoring. Cos the alternative is to risk creating a hoo-haa and get people changing things or whatever, on account of my feelings, which might not be valid/reasonable/rational. Which is anathema.

If I have completely driven my friend crazy to the point where they have had enough as you describe in the OP, and they actually say that, then I'd think it's time to close off the P functions and make like a J and say "Okay, quit looking for missing bits of info, it's time to act, it really is. Just make a fucking decision and let the chips fall where they may."

[substitute]

PS. Trouble is, if you live with an ENTP, you're gonna have to resign yourself to hearing a lot about their issues because that's part of the whole Ne primary condition... we think by talking, can't really solve our problems without having to bounce them off other people. In the case of the ENTP in particular, I do think that the tendency, at least with me and a couple of other ENTP's I know, is to keep 'bouncing' until you get a clear idea from the cosmos as to whether your feelings/impulses are actually valid and worth acting on; that the decision you want to make, needs to be made.

Best thing if you want the dude to STFU is listen to what he says he thinks he should do and say very firmly, "Yes, I think you should do that. I agree, that's a good plan. That's what I'd do. That's what anyone else would do, go ahead and do it."

Then he will. Don't worry, if it all goes pear shaped he won't blame you for endorsing it... probably

If he still doesn't, then just keep saying to him "you know what you have to do, I don't wanna hear anything else until you've done it!"

[runvardh]

PS. Trouble is, if you live with an ENTP, you're gonna have to resign yourself to hearing a lot about their issues because that's part of the whole Ne primary condition... we think by talking, can't really solve our problems without having to bounce them off other people. In the case of the ENTP in particular, I do think that the tendency, at least with me and a couple of other ENTP's I know, is to keep 'bouncing' until you get a clear idea from the cosmos as to whether your feelings/impulses are actually valid and worth acting on; that the decision you want to make, needs to be made.

Yeah I've figured this part...

Best thing if you want the dude to STFU is listen to what he says he thinks he should do and say very firmly, "Yes, I think you should do that. I agree, that's a good plan. That's what I'd do. That's what anyone else would do, go ahead and do it."

Then he will. Don't worry, if it all goes pear shaped he won't blame you for endorsing it... probably

If he still doesn't, then just keep saying to him "you know what you have to do, I don't wanna hear anything else until you've done it!"

I did this since February, but apparently woman issues don't exactly go away all that easily. The issue I was getting fed up with was actually unrelated to his problem with the opposite sex, but the temptation was there to tell him to actually do something about it.

By the way, what's with walking into my room, standing beside me and looking lost while saying nothing? I don't have a problem with him walking in, the door was open, but standing there lost and quiet kinda feels wierd...

[Little Linguist]

Crying on one shoulder, should be never be annoying, dumbass xD

I mean, seriously!!! NTs have hearts, too. And if he's being an ass rat, tell him where he can go. It's not an NT thing, it's a jerk thing.

Though if he is really stressed....well, he might react in a "Jerky" kind of way without meaning it. So I think the suggestion is good.

My husband usually asks, "Now, think about what you say. Did you really mean what you just said?" Makes any intelligent person shut the hell up and think twice mostly because of the way he says it.

[Shadowrose]

By the way, what's with walking into my room, standing beside me and looking lost while saying nothing? I don't have a problem with him walking in, the door was open, but standing there lost and quiet kinda feels wierd...

I couldn't help but LOL when I read this.. if only because I do that at least once a week to my roommate. I'll also randomly walk into his room, sit down beside him while he's sleeping and smoke. He eventually wakes up and blinks at me.. I think he's used to it. For me, at least, it's either because I actually wanted to say something to a person, but forgot what I wanted to say by the time I got to them (Yeah. That 3 microsecond trip can be mentally exhausting. xD) or because I'm lonely and just want to be around another body.

..I actually do that at work, too. I'll get up and walk over to a coworker's cube and realize I had no idea why and just kind of blink at them. Then I go back to my cube leaving them exasperated and confused.

My short term memory basically sucks.

[substitute]

yeah I see myself in what Shadowrose says

woman troubles, no they don't go away so easily... but then in that case your answer to him is "dump her then". Then he'll tell you all the reasons why he doesn't want to do that, thereby talking himself into not doing so and appreciating his relationship with her more. Put it to him that he has a threefold option: dump her, put up with whatever's bothering you in silence, or talk about it to her and try to find a solution/compromise.

Then again, we're notoriously awful at compromises, us ENxP's...

Rule no.1 in dealing with ENTP's: if you're tempted to say something/tell them something, then DON'T resist that temptation!!! We rely quite heavily on the views and stuff that other people present to us, their reactions and stuff. Witholding your opinion on his behaviour or problem to avoid 'being mean' is as pointless and unconstructive as witholding from an INFP how much it means to you emotionally that they make time to talk to you on a certain occasion and letting them carry on playing WoW whilst thinking you really mean it when you say 'y'know that's fine, it wasn't important' and go away feeling lost and alone... lol

[runvardh]

Eh, I'm pretty sure I just had a burn out moment. Two weeks of being proded by both an ENTP and an ENTJ seems to do that after a while... LOL ^_^

Supposedly the ENTJ is headed home today though, so the ENTP will have his room back and I only have to keep track of 3 discussions instead of 10...