[MBTI General] INTJ: How do others see you? (ISFJ mom's opinion of me)

[Kalispo]

Lolz... My mom (erm, I don't know her type) always says that I need a lot more socializing... and she just hates my brain of ideas. Guess moms aren't usually INTJs.

Even more so, I think my ESTP sister is becoming 'me'... She says she loves my way to everything... and she copies everything I do. (I faint!!)

 

[Amethyst]

My mom says I need a heart...or a soul, or something.

I mean, we're only one letter off (ENTP vs. ENFP).
I get that a lot from most Fs though.

 

[Blossom500]

I like INTJs.

I do think that some of the things he's said in the past were very sad--things like you describe about not having friends and not wanting them. (He's not like that now.) It's sad because he obviously did need friends. He needed approval of people he cares about and admires; he needed their intelligent discussion; he needed to learn how to act appropriately in social situations so he could use those situations to his advantage; he needed to become a whole person and develop all sides of himself--not just the ones that come easily.

Of course, it's not very nice to tell someone else that their thoughts and views are "sad". Rather patronizing and unkind.

When I met my INTJ BF his ex was an ESFP who had told him he was "sad" and cold for 20 years. By the time I met him he was a crushed man but with all the lovely things about an INTJ. Myers Briggs was a great start for us to talk about what we mean by what we say and do. It opened up the opportunity to talk about language (I have a background in linguistics and mediation). It makes sense to him and we are looking at how to communicate with ESFP's so he does not have to sell himself short. Sometimes he has to fake the social stuff nut that is ok because I know his heart is always in the right place... and if it has a purpose for good not evil it's all good.

I've come to the notion that it's not necessarily the Introverts that have trouble functioning socially, but the iNtuitives, and especially iNtuitive Thinkers, since they tend not to care what other people think.

I've met Sensors that were also Introverted, but they didn't seem very unusual, but iNtuitives, regardless of whether or not they're Extraverted, always seemed to be outcasts, or at least had a unique aura about them that stood out. Extraverted iNtuitives are gregarious like any other Extravert, but they're also perceived as weird, and thus, despite being Extraverts, are still not accepted as much as the Sensors due to their unconventional way of seeing things.

I have a similar experience and I think that is why my partner and I get on so well. Sometimes I do wonder though if analyzing how people talk/think is even possible for us because we are so outside the cultural "box"/norm.

And I sometimes catch myself laughing and thinking of witty James Bond-like puns when I watch prime time television.

yes, but my ENFP friend (Hexis on here) and his ISFJ girlfriend both do also

I don't think I've ever had so many evil laughs as when I just watched Mr. Brooks.

I love my INTJ's morbid and dry sense of humour. I can say something in a group of people that flies over their heads but from him is get a subtle smirk.

His daughter thinks our humour is also lame at times... "dad humour as they call it" but it might just be our similar aussie/english backgrounds. Which most second + generation Australians do not get.

I'm another female INTJ, and I have been told that I "think I'm better than everyone else" and "talk down to people" by people who don't know me very well, or that I'm "approachable but intimidating," especially on a subject I'm familiar with. My close friends and family will often exasperatedly lament my fierce independence and perceived lack of tact, but accept it with begrudging amusement. I tend to run into the "tact" problems with my "F" friends and family most often.

Edit to add: I'm not sure how I managed to get into this three-month-old thread.

I get similar all the time as ENFP female but because of the "E" I tend to get called opinionated rather than arrogant and that "I think I know better than everyone else." But my interest in so many different things means I do know a lot but I never think I know it all and am open to change. That is why I like INTJ's because they are open to change if it means a better way of doing things. Mixed with my optimism I think we have the chance to do amazing things. Ok I sometimes have to drag him kicking and screaming (in the silent INTJ way of locking himself away for a week to think about it) but if it makes sense to him he is the one to make it happen. I have to ideas and he works out how to make them happen usually with improvements or detail that I have missed.

I'm dating an INTJ, and I think very highly of him. I feel like he's more observant and analytical than most people, and I like that in him. He's independent, which is important to me. I can't stand dependent people. Basically, I see him as "That smart, shy one who's obviously thinking harder than anyone else in the room." He fascinates me.


Both of them share one trait that I really like: they both take direct, utilitarian approaches to things. "Will this conversation accomplish anything? If yes, have it. If no, don't." I'm this way, and I get annoyed when people don't operate this way.

OK sometimes when I want to talk about my feelings this is annoying but I try to get him to humour me.. I tell him that he does not have to actually listen but he has to pretend he is lol. Most of the time he will as his heart is actually one of the softest I know. My mum is an INTX and once we learnt how to communicate without me feeling offended I also began to realise just how sensitive she is. I actually think that INTX often feel more deeply but it is kind of overload so they disassociate in self defence.

 

[Luet]

I can't believe what some of your mom's are saying to you.

I know I brought my mom to dispair when I was in puberty, withdrawing from family- and social life. Not taking any direction and not sharing options before making choices.
I made very clear to her I wanted no questions, no advise and no meddling. And she respected that and she consistently showed her love for me.

She told me later, in my twenties, how it had made her feel (powerless): She didn't know what the was going on, and I was not going to tell her.

So we had or fights in those days: not anything unusual. But she never was judging my personality. I was just fine.
She still often doesn't understand me. She gives me advise she knows I am not going to listen to. But I appeciate her care.

Like all, I have the experiance of being weighed and judged (negatively) by people. It usualy ends up with the same response: I turn around, walk out and don't look back.
But I am thankfull that it was never my mother doing that.

 

[hilo]

But it made me think: how do you see INTJs? What do you think of their abstract ideas and depth of soul? What do you think about INTJs and feeling?

I have had a lot of experience with an INTJ, so this comes from the perspective of a close relationship for many years.

I see INTJ-types as a little bit mechanical. Like a long-running computer program with many subroutines (including "execute have fun for the next 2 hours, then back to work", etc). I don't mean that to sound derogatory - I admire INTJ ability to stay on task, with an eye on the big plan, immensely. But it is rare to see them cut loose and improvise.

Certainly the emotions they have run rather deep, and only those that are naturally attuned to subtle cues or have spent time studying people (particularly INT's) would see the evidence of them. However, even though deep convictions are naturally a part of the type, they don't use feelings as a primary reason - everything is backed up with logic (which isn't always faultless), so this kind of gives them the appearance of being "robotic" or hyper-logical.

As far as ideas, abstractions, that kind of thing, INTJ can hang with anyone. They have a very good "engineer's mind" with the added bonus of being practical and farsighted enough (back up plans within back up plans) to see something through. In the realm of more philosophical or religious themes, it's very hard for me to extrapolate off of my one close relationship - I found his ideas to be rather child-like and not fully examined. I often got the feeling that he chose all his ideology at about the at 16 and never revisited anything seriously. But I have a feeling this is not typical. In terms of a project or problem you could completely define, he was unparalleled in achieving an understanding and then executing a solution. But in terms of open-ended theorizing requiring a lot of synthesis, he was usually not very keen and sometimes openly hostile to the "what-if" process.

In feeling, I find INTJ at least avoid the pitfal of many INTP of thinking feelings are not important. They are generally well aware of how they feel about something, and don't have as much of a problem letting it guide them (especially when it can be backed up logically). Showing feelings or vulnerability of course is not really done, and this is where I think INTJ females get the most grief, because such behavior is much more acceptable socially in a male.

I would never think, however, that an INTJ is "shallow" or uncaring. They just have a different cognitive setup, like all of us do.

 

[Coriolis]

I think to my mother (likely ESFJ) I was a bit of an enigma growing up. She was continually surprised by the things I came up with and what I could do. On the whole, she seemed to strike a reasonable balance between providing structure and stability, and letting me develop in my own way. She was always telling me that I could do anything I put my mind to, and encouraging me to aim high. She seemed to enjoy providing me with the practical things of life, which I probably took advantage of as a teen, but deeply appreciated. She also provided emotional support that I didn't realize I even needed. This helped me through the ostracism and occasional bullying of my school years. I sometimes despaired that I had no friends, but it was almost more because I thought I was supposed to have them, rather than feeling an actual lack. When I remembered to view it from that perspective, I realized that I wasn't missing much, since most of my peers at that time had such dissimilar interests and outlook. My mother thankfully never pressured me to have more friends, or to spend less time alone; she just commiserated if it ever got to me, and told me things would improve when I got older. She was right about that.

On the downside, my mother was one of the most illogical people I have ever known, and I quickly learned to go to my father (likely ISTJ) if I wanted to argue for something using facts and reason. This occasionally precipitated an argument between my parents, but often enough, got me what I wanted. I sometimes was surprised what I was able to persuade adults to do. I think they might have worried more about my stubbornness and independence if I hadn't been an exemplary student, pursued reasonable hobbies and activities, and never got in trouble with school, drugs, the law, etc.

My mother's most annoying habit was to critique my behavior after almost every social event we attended. She wouldn't say anything during the event, leaving me with the impression that I had behaved acceptably, only to start in on the way home. I was often puzzled by her expectations, and by how this or that thing that I had done could be considered wrong. All the same, I find I have internalized many useful scripts from this upbringing -- not that I always choose to run them.

 

[Nicodemus]

I mean, we're only one letter off (ENTP vs. ENFP).

Well, there are four letters to encompass all the basal differences between all people on this planet.

 

[Nicodemus]

My mother's most annoying habit was to critique my behavior after almost every social event we attended. She wouldn't say anything during the event, leaving me with the impression that I had behaved acceptably, only to start in on the way home. I was often puzzled by her expectations, and by how this or that thing that I had done could be considered wrong. All the same, I find I have internalized many useful scripts from this upbringing -- not that I always choose to run them.

It was only yesterday that my mother told me how nice it was of me to come by, attend her garden party, but how not-so-nice to grumble over the gruesome music.

 

[Lucas]

I like INTJs. They are kind of like well-ground lenses; they keep me focused and realistic when I go on theoretical thinking sprees (I.E reject normative truth claims to collapse the state), but can be willing to join me in them as well.

 

[ez78705]

This thread is fun to read. You will see a difference between an INTJ who has been hugged recently and an INTJ who has not been hugged recently or ever before. And INTJ is probably the type that is the least likely to get hugged. Not only because other people might not feel like hugging weird robot INTJs, but also because some INTJs themselves do not realize how much difference intimacy could affect their life and so they continue to rely on their unusual ability to be alone for many years.

 

[Coriolis]

This thread is fun to read. You will see a difference between an INTJ who has been hugged recently and an INTJ who has not been hugged recently or ever before. And INTJ is probably the type that is the least likely to get hugged. Not only because other people might not feel like hugging weird robot INTJs, but also because some INTJs themselves do not realize how much difference intimacy could affect their life and so they continue to rely on their unusual ability to be alone for many years.

Unusual, perhaps, but definitely useful. And please don't hug the INTJ.

 

[Unique]

Yeah she could say that you are lacking something your brother has

But she fails to see the good qualities of the INTJ and thats just unappreciative

 

[Tallulah]

I'm pretty sure my mom is an ISFJ. She's a great person, but it's very hard for her to understand that people are different and have different preferences. She's always been pretty good about allowing me to be my own person, though. Sometimes we butt heads because she sees my way of approaching things as being lazy or making excuses. Also, because of her I have a much stronger-than-typical awareness for an INTP of what is socially acceptable. It's annoying.

 

[Coriolis]

Also, because of her I have a much stronger-than-typical awareness for an INTP of what is socially acceptable. It's annoying.

It certainly is. Most people don't understand why, though. (My mother was likely ESFJ, so similar influence.)

 

[nonsequitur]

My mom is an ENFJ, and she's always thought that I'm strange... and has commented more than once (in a negative way) that I'm a hermit. But my relationship with her is not typical; I'd say that most of my friends know me better than her.

My ISFJ friend thinks that I'm "great" in my logical, analytical perspective that considers even people's emotions as variables. She likes that I can explain why she feels the way that she does, and why people do things, in a "reasonable" fashion. At the same time, she cares about me... and gets that when I care about other people, I tend to be a bit gruff and show it in a "helpful" way. I get concerned about her tendency to be bullied and try to make her grow a spine, but that doesn't seem to have been effective. She doesn't expect me to be demonstrative with how I feel, and likes that I don't show emotion willy-nilly. When I do show emotion though, she takes me seriously and offers me a listening ear without trying to solve my problems or give me advice. I think although we don't completely "get" each other most of the time, we don't step on each others' toes and our relationship is symbiotic.

 

[Blossom500]

This thread is fun to read. You will see a difference between an INTJ who has been hugged recently and an INTJ who has not been hugged recently or ever before. And INTJ is probably the type that is the least likely to get hugged. Not only because other people might not feel like hugging weird robot INTJs, but also because some INTJs themselves do not realize how much difference intimacy could affect their life and so they continue to rely on their unusual ability to be alone for many years.

I love to hug my INTJ!

 

[Tdore]

First off if people aren't treating you fairly then forget them.

People who hate me see me as: annoying, arrogant, obtrusive, and a weirdo. People who love me (because it's always one or the other) see me as: strong, confident, tough, smart and a bit annoying.

And hugs are good, but understanding and listening are much better.

 

[Nicodemus]

You can hug yourself:

 

[Blossom500]

And hugs are good, but understanding and listening are much better.

He gets that too in spades

 

[OrangeAppled]

That sounds a lot like me. When I was a child I was always talking to anyone who would listen to my many wonderful insights about the world, but I could be alone a lot as well. I think adults indulge you by thinking it's cute, but as you get older they just don't get it. In high school I always hung out with artsy/abstract people and was surprised the first time someone said, "Hey, you're really funny!" I think I was a sophomore in High School.

I think your cousin withdrew because he was tired of all the judgement. A lot of times INTJs don't mean to be jerks, it's just that we don't usually get offended and we're always surprised when a family member (Usually a SF) asks us increduously, "Does ANYONE really find what you talk about even remotely interesting?" Or a co-worker says, "Geez! This is the break room! Give it a rest!" (Even though you weren't talking to them). We're just awfully bad at small talk it seems like a waste of time!

Yes, I think as a child, his Ni was more apparent. He seemed more imaginative and playful. I don't see the SFs stunting him with the kind of responses you suggest - they're not that dismissive. My ISFJ mom was married to an ENTP for years and 3 my ESFJ grandma's kids are Ns. My grandma has the hardest time with Ns, but she comes around if you make even a little effort. So they genuinely liked him as a child, especially because he was affectionate (and that's the end-all be-all for them).

I do know he had a childhood trauma where he was pushed off a high wall by school bullies & broke some bones, and I guess he has never been the same since. My aunt claims he is super huggy & warm , but all we see is this Te cold front. He has absolutely no manners, which I admit, horrifies me also. I don't see MBTI type as an excuse for lack of gratitude or displaying a sense of entitlement. The intellectual superiority attitude does not charm anyone either - most of us are smart, even the SFs are very book smart. So he's smart - big deal. Join the club - or the family I should say. I think everyone would be thrilled if he wanted to chat about weird, nerdy stuff - it's the rudeness that offends them. Hey, he could even sit silently as I used to - just say thanks every now & then, especially when people spend money on you, especially when you ASKED them for something. I think he frustrates me because a tiny bit of effort from him to be even remotely cordial would ease up on the negative judgments. It's like he's making a bad name for INXXs .

I'm so glad your cousin has you!

Well, I empathize with him, but his personality does not exactly delight me either.... I'll also defend my INTP uncle (especially since I get compared to him so much...), but he's admittedly hard to like at times also. I don't think they see me as much easier to grasp though. I had lovely conversation recently where my mom told me I was "unusual" (in a bad way) & basically criticized me for not using Fe.