[MBTI General] N v. S

[alicia91]

Very well said Proteanmix. I agree completely.

I find most people are willing to engage in "abstract" or "deeper" topics when they feel comfortable with you or when they're gathered specifically to discuss that kind of stuff. Those subjects tend to expose people deep held beliefs, thoughts, or feelings and most people don't want those exposed right off that bat

That's a large part of it for me. Recently I was at my mother's birthday party in Canada where I was in the kitchen mixing up some margaritas. Along comes my new INTP step-father and as I'm blending, asks me what I think of Obama and McCain's ideas about Iraq. I barely know the guy, I'm focused on something else, and that's not party conversation IMO.

Is it because you need to be in a certain mindset to want to discuss such things? Or is it because you would rather focus on the present than be distracted with discussion?

Both. If it's an NT, who wants the conversation, I need to prepare myself by going to the library or on the net, and getting my facts straight, so I don't make a fool of myself. ha ha Also, many times with NTs the reason they want to discuss it in the first place is because they have strong opinions and either want to convince you of something or debate. That really drains me, and I rather dislike it. I'm not a debater - you've got your opinon, I've got mine= nuff said. I also make it a point to stay in the present and while stimulating conversation about all sorts of things can be part of that....still, you've got to read people and see what they are in the mood for and what's going on around you.

ISTPs can be really annoying. That "SP Rage" drives me up the wall. Sorry, alicia! That's every ISTP except you, but including my roommate.

I've heard of this 'rage' on these MBTI forums but I know lots of SPs and only a couple of them have a temper. Much, much less than the NT rage. I can honestly say that I'm over 40 and have only lost my temper twice and both times I was drunk.

 

[Usehername]

However, if you even dare start talking about the weather I will just .

K?

I warned you.

Anything else is fine, but that "subject" is totally off limits.

Actually, some of us live in places where it is sunshine and blue skies, hailing, raining and snowstorming all within the same day. Where we swap the "AC Max" function on our car dashboard to trying to pump as much heat out of there as possible in the same car ride.

The weather isn't always boring. Where I'm from, everyone enjoys talking about the weather every week or two.

 

[runvardh]

Actually, some of us live in places where it is sunshine and blue skies, hailing, raining and snowstorming all within the same day. Where we swap the "AC Max" function on our car dashboard to trying to pump as much heat out of there as possible in the same car ride.

The weather isn't always boring. Where I'm from, everyone enjoys talking about the weather every week or two.

And it's not just your part of the country, there are a few places (I'm in one of them) where the joke is, "if you don't like the weather, wait 5 minutes."

 

[01011010]

Eh, I don't have this problem so much.

Not with Se anyway, Si is boring though.

Same here. I don't mind sensors as long as they don't try to have deep conversations with me.

 

[Simplexity]

I just think that theres a lot of unintelligent sensors who think they're smarter than they are IRL and can't understand anything remotely abstract or have discussions in that area. Those are annoying but in general I just think that the frustration from dealing with people like that just spills over and thats how certain stereotypes are formed. With that said however I think N's sometimes really are painfully oblivious to the fact that you do actually have to take the situation in account sometimes. Ive realized that more and more that greasing the groove is really important if you do want to have discussions of that nature and it can be sort of grounding hearing an S's perspective once you get into the discussion.

 

[alicia91]

Aimahn, I agree with you, but I think there are intelligent and unintelligent ones on both sides and I feel this issue is mostly a communication/interest problem and not one of intelligence. I've heard plenty of Ns around here saying that they can't deal with S-style conversations (and I'm sure that would frusterate the Ss). When I try to talk to my NT husband about interior design (lines, symmetry, balance, flow, mood, negative space, color theory ..etc.) I don't think he really 'gets' it either but that's OK he just contributes what he can but I certainly don't think he's dumb.

It does get easier as you get older IMO, and everyone moves towards the center.

 

[darkmoon]

Have any of you had similar experiences?

Oh yeah! I have lots of friends who are Si. Sometimes I find them draining because I like to listen and they like to talk about a lot of detail in their lives and after a while I find my head is full of data.

iNtuitives always seem so shallow to me...

I think sensors and intuitives can appear shallow to each other even though in reality they are not. They just have a different focus. For example when my Si friends are talking to me often it just sounds like lists of facts with not a lot of meaning:

- I just fed the cat and put it out
- The baby is crying
- My dinner tastes nice
- I'm typing a letter
- It's raining
- I'm cold
- I'm drinking coffee
- The sugar tin has ants in it
- ...
- ...

After about 2 hours I start to wonder if there is any point to what we are talking about.

By contrast to my Si friends probably think I sound like this:

"In part vision states that nature is rationally ordered and that cats eating nice tasting dinners outside cause babies to cry. Thus if A B C and A' B' C' are similar then AB/A'B' equals BC/B'C' and the theorum in question is therefore proved by the very definition of ants in sugar tins. Typed letters are protagonists of the power of coffee drinkers and are a cross section of rain on a reflected cold surface."

So they are equally non-plussed. I am exaggerating of course.

I find most people are willing to engage in "abstract" or "deeper" topics when they feel comfortable with you or when they're gathered specifically to discuss that kind of stuff.

I find that some of my Si friends aren't really ever able to, or want to talk about abstract or "deep" stuff so I don't bother to talk to them about things like that. I talk about what ever they want to talk about. Which is OK but I sometimes wonder how come they never think to ask me about what I would like to talk about. So it can be a bit one sided. But maybe I have particularly selfish friends in this case?

 

[alicia91]

I find that some of my Si friends aren't really ever able to, or want to talk about abstract or "deep" stuff so I don't bother to talk to them about things like that. I talk about what ever they want to talk about. Which is OK but I sometimes wonder how come they never think to ask me about what I would like to talk about. So it can be a bit one sided. But maybe I have particularly selfish friends in this case?

I think that many people shy away from talking about subjects that they know nothing about and can't offer an intelligent response. Maybe you just haven't found the right subjects? If my husband wanted to talk about theoretical physics with me, I'm afraid the conversation wouldn't go to far but if I want to talk religious philosophy with him - he'd be clueless other than offering his view on his religion, so it would go far either. So try to find common ground.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

You know what I am sick of... All these intuitors getting their pantys all in a bunch.

Having the ENFP's low self esteem is great, because it drives us to read about and know a little about every topic under the sun, which allows us to talk to anyone about anything (I just noticed that I didn't say why it drives us to learn things, because of my intuition, I assumed everyone would understand that we do this to be able to pretend we know everything or be able to connect with others on any topic so they can accept us, damn you intuition).

Even though I really rather not talk about Bret Farves stats or his current dellima, I can if need be.

PS: Sensor does not equal stupid, so please get off and step away from the soap box carefully, or you might bump your head while doing it because your chasing butterflies again.

 

[darkmoon]

I think that many people shy away from talking about subjects that they know nothing about and can't offer an intelligent response. Maybe you just haven't found the right subjects? If my husband wanted to talk about theoretical physics with me, I'm afraid the conversation wouldn't go to far but if I want to talk religious philosophy with him - he'd be clueless other than offering his view on his religion, so it would go far either. So try to find common ground.

Well, I do find common ground in the sense that I let them choose the topic for discussion. I mean I can talk about details and here and now things without any problem. But to me those things are often just the starting point for thinking about things more seriously (especially questioning stuff that may not be true). It has occurred to me that they often state facts but don't really wonder much about why things are the way the are.

I have an ISTJ friend who is a bookworm like me and very intellectual. We both like things like Psychology and History. But in a discussion we talk very differently. I read, question whether what I am reading is true or not, look for alternative opinions and also come up with my own theories. She reads and then repeats what she read verbatim without testing if what she read is true or coming up with new ideas. So she is good at remembering details. If I want to know about some historical event she is an expert on that and can deliver the details she remembered without fault. But she also states things as fact when there is a possibility they are not even true. She would never say something like "I read the other day that the peasants in 16th century Germany accused each other of witchcraft because there was a change in the weather that caused the crops to die. What do you think about that? Does that sound feasible?". She would say "the peasants accused each other of witchcraft because of the weather". Full stop. No questions asked because it came out of a book. So we are interested in the same subjects but approach them in different way.

 

[proteanmix]

This thread is going nowhere fast.

 

[Jeffster]

This thread is going nowhere fast.

You're right. We should do some roleplay or some crap. One of you N's whining about not being able to have a convo with S's, post your conversation starter and I'll respond, and let's see if we can have a conversation.

 

[proteanmix]

Also, please start it off with the cadence of a nursery rhyme so it'll be easier to figure out.

Thanks!

 

[Angry Ayrab]

I have an ISTJ friend who is a bookworm like me and very intellectual. We both like things like Psychology and History.

For a second, I was like WTF, I better stay away from this person, because I read history as histology for some wierd reason, and all I could think was, who the fuck likes reading things about histology.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

Jeffster, if you think about it, If God is dead, then there exists no reason for us to act in a civil manner when we can get away with it.

What do you think... I am just role playing.

 

[proteanmix]

Jeffster, if you think about it, If God is dead, then there exists no reason for us to act in a civil manner when we can get away with it.

What do you think... I am just role playing.

But you know what's interesting? People always use religion as being a go-to "deep and philosophical" topic. It's like impossible to find something abstract in talking about the weather.

 

[alicia91]

It has occurred to me that they often state facts but don't really wonder much about why things are the way the are.

Huge generalization or it's just specific to your friends. I think I'm done with this thread because it's really based on egotistical assumptions ---again.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

But you know what's interesting? People always use religion as being a go-to "deep and philosophical" topic. It's like impossible to find something abstract in talking about the weather.

What on earth makes the winds shift the way they do? It is just amazing, we know that clouds shading an area can cause the air to cool down and an unshaded area may be heated causing a local pressure system to develop, but what on earth started all these shifts in the winds?

 

[Angry Ayrab]

But you know what's interesting? People always use religion as being a go-to "deep and philosophical" topic. It's like impossible to find something abstract in talking about the weather.

Well by nature, a deep and philosophical topic is usually a discussion of an untangible or abstract thing, Religion fits this criteria. On the contrary, You can find many stimulating discussions about the wheather, they don't have to be philosophical, they can be scientific and still intuitive.

 

[Jeffster]

Jeffster, if you think about it, If God is dead, then there exists no reason for us to act in a civil manner when we can get away with it.

What do you think... I am just role playing.

But God isn't dead.