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[ENTJ] Why do ENTJ's bully

Xander

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i have terrible aim, I'll have to practice. actually most of them leave me alone now. i don't think i hit the nose, i think its more of they gave up. which is also completely fine with me.
Well with my gaffer and my father, if you have the nuts to stand up to them and say flat out that they're wrong and this is how....you might not win the argument but they'll respect you. If you avoid the confrontation it's almost like a red rag to a bull as they feel that they have to chase you down to solve the problem which to their mind means you're halting progress.
 

SD45T-2

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I don't see what many ENTJs do as "bullying", so much as "bull-dozing". They can be unstoppable juggernauts when they have an object in mind, and heaven help you if you're in their path.
 

prplchknz

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Well with my gaffer and my father, if you have the nuts to stand up to them and say flat out that they're wrong and this is how....you might not win the argument but they'll respect you. If you avoid the confrontation it's almost like a red rag to a bull as they feel that they have to chase you down to solve the problem which to their mind means you're halting progress.

yeah except that i'm not. and them chasing me down halts progress even more. believe it or not there's like 3 or 4 people my life effects and they are usually not one of them.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Well with my gaffer and my father, if you have the nuts to stand up to them and say flat out that they're wrong and this is how....you might not win the argument but they'll respect you. If you avoid the confrontation it's almost like a red rag to a bull as they feel that they have to chase you down to solve the problem which to their mind means you're halting progress.
See, I might not respect someone who shies away from confrontation like this, but I cannot be bothered to chase them down. I'll just write them off, and deal with them later if they return (and after I have had plenty of time to decide how to handle them).
 

violet_crown

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Well with my gaffer and my father, if you have the nuts to stand up to them and say flat out that they're wrong and this is how....you might not win the argument but they'll respect you. If you avoid the confrontation it's almost like a red rag to a bull as they feel that they have to chase you down to solve the problem which to their mind means you're halting progress.

Aww. That's just a little bit of the ol' prey drive kicking in. If you don't move, we'll generally lose interest. Our visual acuity being based on movement and all...
 

Xander

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See, I might not respect someone who shies away from confrontation like this, but I cannot be bothered to chase them down. I'll just write them off, and deal with them later if they return (and after I have had plenty of time to decide how to handle them).
Perhaps that's why INTJs aren't accused of being bullies. Anyone you do have a problem with is quietly gotten rid of at the end of a well planned and executed mission to bump them off. :)
 

violet_crown

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Perhaps that's why INTJs aren't accused of being bullies. Anyone you do have a problem with is quietly gotten rid of at the end of a well planned and executed mission to bump them off. :)

I was thinking on the ENTJ/INTJ divide and have found two clips that I feel summarize both sides pretty eloquently.

ENTJ Bullying


INTJ Intimidation

 

Siúil a Rúin

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There's a Buddhist concept "Grant the victory".
When a conflict is petty enough, and the opposition overly invested, the most logical course of action is to just grant the victory. It means more to them than to me, so why waste any more time? If you know your own internal power, there is no need to prove it externally in all cases. If you can live with perceived defeat, with nothing to prove externally, then you are unconquerable.
 

Bush

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There's a Buddhist concept "Grant the victory".
When a conflict is petty enough, and the opposition overly invested, the most logical course of action is to just grant the victory. It means more to them than to me, so why waste any more time? If you know your own internal power, there is no need to prove it externally in all cases. If you can live with perceived defeat, with nothing to prove externally, then you are unconquerable.
Seriously. Why even bother to play such a game? If someone's looking to scrap.. well, they can get their sense of self-satisfaction without me having to waste my time or energy.
 

Jaguar

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I was thinking on the ENTJ/INTJ divide and have found two clips that I feel summarize both sides pretty eloquently.

ENTJ Bullying


INTJ Intimidation


If you see those characters as NTs, there's a problem.
 

violet_crown

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If you see those characters as NTs, there's a problem.

I think the type of the characters in and of themselves is besides the point, really. The clips are interesting because of the point of view expressed, and how they juxtapose two differing displays of aggression. Could an ENTJ make Vito's quiet threat? Sure. Is an INTJ capable of Col. Jessup's jingoistic bluster? Why not. We're pretty much talking in stereotypes, anyways.

But, since we're on the subject, Jessup is more likely than not ETJ, and Vito is pretty solidly INTJ. I'd still be interested in your arguments to the contrary, though.
 

Jaguar

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I think the type of the characters in and of themselves is besides the point, really. The clips are interesting because of the point of view expressed, and how they juxtapose two differing displays of aggression. Could an ENTJ make Vito's quiet threat? Sure. Is an INTJ capable of Col. Jessup's jingoistic bluster? Why not. We're pretty much talking in stereotypes, anyways.

But, since we're on the subject, Jessup is more likely than not ETJ, and Vito is pretty solidly INTJ. I'd still be interested in your arguments to the contrary, though.

I see two authority-centered SJs hungry for the respect of others. If they can't get it, maybe they'll just kill you. Big thinkers, eh? Hardly visionaries, or knowledge-centered individuals.

Col. Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Kaffee: Did you order the Code Red?
Col. Jessep: I did the job I...
Kaffee: *Did you order the Code Red?*
Col. Jessep: *You're Goddamn right I did!*

Screams ESTJ.

And Vito is as abstract as a brick.
 

violet_crown

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I see two authority-centered SJs hungry for the respect of others. If they can't get it, maybe they'll just kill you. Big thinkers, eh? Hardly visionaries, or knowledge-centered individuals.

Jessup, I'll cop to being ESTJ. But if you think that Vito Corleone is a man with any inclination towards "authority" then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of that character. Corleone was exceptional because he was unwilling to accept society's expectations for him or his family. He adopted the rules old world to the circumstances of the new one and built an empire. The man saw a way where there was none. That's a visionary.

As for being hungry for respect, I mean, that's just about it being better to be feared than loved.
 

Jaguar

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Jessup, I'll cop to being ESTJ. But if you think that Vito Corleone is a man with any inclination towards "authority" then you have a fundamental misunderstanding of that character. Corleone was exceptional because he was unwilling to accept society's expectations for him or his family. He adopted the rules old world to the circumstances of the new one and built an empire. The man saw a way where there was none. That's a visionary.

As for being hungry for respect, I mean, that's just about it being better to be feared than loved.

If you don't put a friend of mine in your movie, Mr. Director, I'll just order your horse's head be cut off. Damn, that's a visionary.
 

violet_crown

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If you don't put a friend of mine in your movie, Mr. Director, I'll just order your horse's head be cut off. Damn, that's a visionary.

Huh. Never would have taken you for the guy who would have asked Mrs. Lincoln about her thoughts on the play, but I stand corrected.

Ask me sometimes to explain the difference between tactics and strategy to you. I think you'd get a lot out of it.
 

Mademoiselle

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Not all ENTJs bully, they have more chances of doijng it, but really..
I don't accept this insult.
 

Jaguar

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Huh. Never would have taken you for the guy who would have asked Mrs. Lincoln about her thoughts on the play, but I stand corrected.

Ask me sometimes to explain the difference between tactics and strategy to you. I think you'd get a lot out of it.

And if you think cutting off a horse's head is a strategy or a tactic, stay away from a chessboard. Or would you consider it strategic to pick it up and bash it over someone's head? The brilliance . . .
 

violet_crown

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And if you think cutting off a horse's head is a strategy or a tactic, stay away from a chessboard. Or would you consider it strategic to pick it up and bash it over someone's head? The brilliance . . .

None of the above. But your enthusiasm for the subject matter is appreciated. :)
 
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