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[ENTJ] Why do ENTJ's bully

Raffaella

bon vivant
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
945
It's interesting how you've worded this, putting effect before cause. It points to our differences in focus which most likely correlates to the differences in our functional stacking. You don't have your type in your profile but based on our interactions, it's possible to guess two letters.

And, I thought I could hide - good pick-up, I am a feeler (INFP). So far, do I understand ENTJs?
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
And, I thought I could hide - good pick-up, I am a feeler (INFP). So far, do I understand ENTJs?
Guessed as much based on the focuses in your posts!

More than others, although I do caution against viewing ENTJs in such a positive light. The two ENTJs you referenced, notice how you're in their inner circle? This impacts on how they choose to behave towards you.

But I will say that with your positive and respectful focus, it can cause a return of same from ENTJs. Notice our positive interactions? Nicely done.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Yes. It's true. ENTJ's are very loyal creatures and if you are in their inner circle you may either receive undying gratitude or severe anger displacement depending on what they had to bite their tongue on about at work.

ENTJ's ironically are not confrontational to authority if that authority provides them with a means of rising through the ranks so they will unconsciously take it out on their loved ones - a product of inferior FI they must struggle with in life. So they may actually take a lot of abuse from their bosses if they see no other way to be free until they finally snap.

EDIT: They actually don't realize they are victims until days later when they understand the subtle dynamics of what has occured...so this is why they are so hard and reluctant to expose their underbellies.

Sometimes this anger displacement is simply shutting down and being remote when the other needs you to be open and sensitive and sometime they are sudden outbursts.

It's because the ENTJ feels oppressed by routine yet conforms to it as a means of control and furthering one's own freedom. It's a matte of "if you can't beat them join them," and also changing the system by conforming to it.

The gravity of routine ways down on the ENTJ but they gain energy from goal achievement so it's a catch 22 in their lives until they tap into NI-SE-FI and even go in to the shadow to retrieve the gold.
 

Raffaella

bon vivant
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
945
Guessed as much based on the focuses in your posts!

More than others, although I do caution against viewing ENTJs in such a positive light. The two ENTJs you referenced, notice how you're in their inner circle? This impacts on how they choose to behave towards you.

But I will say that with your positive and respectful focus, it can cause a return of same from ENTJs. Notice our positive interactions? Nicely done.

Haha, thanks. You're right, I should be more balanced however I find it hard to generalise that they're all bullies. Some are (as other types) but we need to understand why they are or appear to be.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Yes. It's true. ENTJ's are very loyal creatures and if you are in their inner circle you may either receive undying gratitude or severe anger displacement depending on what they had to bite their tongue on about at work.

ENTJ's ironically are not confrontational to authority if that authority provides them with a means of rising through the ranks so they will unconciously take it out on their loved ones - a product of inferior FI they must struggle with in life.
Only unhealthy ENTJs will take out their anger on loved ones. Quit misportraying ENTJs.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
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Messages
11,655
Haha, thanks. You're right, I should be more balanced however I find it hard to generalise that they're all bullies. Some are (as other types) but we need to understand why they are or appear to be.
Yeah, sometimes we're bullies, other times portrayed as bullies due to misinterpretation and lastly, portrayed as bullies by individuals with victim mentality. It's rare you'll find an ENTJ who's consistently a deliberate bully.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Only unhealthy ENTJs will take out their anger on loved ones. Quit misportraying ENTJs.

this thread is about unhealthy ENTJ's since bullying is considered mentally unhealthy so it's implied in every post that we are speaking of a minority or select few of unhealthy ENTJ's.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
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Messages
11,655
this thread is about unhealthy ENTJ's since bullying is considered mentally unhealthy so it's implied in every post that we are speaking of a minority or select few.
Bullying is of itself, not emotionally unhealthy. It's like every other human behaviour. It's magnitude that defines healthy or unhealthy, at least based on psychological parameters.

You personally felt victimised by other ENTJs who didn't believe you were an ENTJ. Frankly, I agree with them. Your posts come across as very un-ENTJ like, far more EN?P.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Bullying is of itself, not emotionally unhealthy. It's like every other human behaviour. It's magnitude that defines healthy or unhealthy, at least based on psychological parameters.

You personally felt victimised by other ENTJs who didn't believe you were an ENTJ. Frankly, I agree with them. Your posts come across as very un-ENTJ like, far more EN?P.

You do realize that the notion that bullying is unhealthy or healthy is subjective but there is empirical evidence which demonstrates it isn't healthy?

Just out of curiosity you are aware that attempting to type someone over the internet in itself is a demonstration of inferior TE?

Maybe you're the one who isn't an ENTJ? Perhaps you are the issue?
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
2,770
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ENTJs can be bullies or misinterpreted as bullies. It really depends on their motivation behind the behaviour. But one thing that I find curious, is the belief that we don't know what we're doing. We do know but just don't care, since there are people who are relevant or irrelevant to us. Inner circle people are relevant, in terms of caring about their feelings. These are the people who can hurt us. The next circle would be people who we're neutral towards, respect or are friendly with, whose feelings matter to us to some extent although they can't hurt us. Outside these two circles, others are largely irrelevant unless they become useful to us.

Seriously not trying to make this a me! me! ENTP! thing, but I know for a fact I've hurt people with words that just came out. Wasn't trying to. And in fact, I didn't even know I said them, or I forgot, thinking nothing of it, until it was brought up.

Just sayin', I can relate.

I do think ENTPs are a little less cognizant about what they say than an ENTJ (and obviously these are ALL generalizations).
 
Joined
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Messages
2,770
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ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You do realize that the notion that bullying is unhealthy or healthy is subjective but there is empirical evidence which demonstrates it isn't healthy?

there's tough love, and then there's bullying. there's a big difference.

I never learned shit from ANY bullies when I was young except fear.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
You do realize that the notion that bullying is unhealthy or healthy is subjective but there is empirical evidence which demonstrates it isn't healthy?
Magnitude. If two people disagree, who's the bully and who's the victim?
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
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1,648
MBTI Type
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there's tough love, and then there's bullying. there's a big difference.

I never learned shit from ANY bullies when I was young except fear.

I agree. Tough love. But bullying is bullying. Someone who thinks that they are showing tough love when they are really bullying though is harming instead of helping.

- - - Updated - - -

Magnitude. If two people disagree, who's the bully and who's the victim?

Circumstantial. It will be self evident.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Seriously not trying to make this a me! me! ENTP! thing, but I know for a fact I've hurt people with words that just came out. Wasn't trying to. And in fact, I didn't even know I said them, or I forgot, thinking nothing of it, until it was brought up.

Just sayin', I can relate.

I do think ENTPs are a little less cognizant about what they say than an ENTJ (and obviously these are ALL generalizations).
It depends on the ENTP and the situation. Some ENTPs deliberately provoke emotional responses for curiosity sakes.

But ENTPs are more governed by emotion than ENTJs because of their tertiary Fe. This doesn't mean that the F function = emotions. But something about values violations evoke stronger emotional responses.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
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Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
It depends on the ENTP and the situation. Some ENTPs deliberately provoke emotional responses for curiosity sakes.

But ENTPs are more governed by emotion than ENTJs because of their tertiary Fe. This doesn't mean that the F function = emotions. But something about values violations evoke stronger emotional responses.


This is false. Inferior feeling and extroverted feeling are not related to affect or emotion. There are psychopaths of all mbti types.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
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Messages
11,655
Circumstantial. It will be self evident.
From whose perspective? From an objective perspective, two people with similar intelligence going head to head in a thread =/= the winner being the bully where the loser cries victim.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
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Messages
1,648
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From whose perspective? From an objective perspective, two people with similar intelligence going head to head in a thread =/= the winner being the bully where the loser cries victim.

you have quite an imagination. Are you sure your primary cognitive function is thinking?
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
This is false. Inferior feeling and extroverted feeling are not related to affect or emotion.
Orly? Ask any feeler if they believe their strength is in emotional management whether of themselves or others.

There are psychopaths of all mbti types.
Can you explain the relevance of this comment to our discussion?
 

Raffaella

bon vivant
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
945
Yes. It's true. ENTJ's are very loyal creatures and if you are in their inner circle you may either receive undying gratitude

That’s true but you should show your appreciation to ENTJs. Despite their lack of complaints, it hurts them deeply when their hard-work and loyalty is taken advantage of.

or severe anger displacement depending on what they had to bite their tongue on about at work.

No, only severely unhealthy ENTJs, very, very rare.

ENTJ's ironically are not confrontational to authority if that authority provides them with a means of rising through the ranks

Yes, that’s true. You need to give them the opportunity to rise through the ranks otherwise they feel agitated, underused and misplaced. They’re natural leaders, they despise inefficiency and incompetency and will challenge people and leaders that are.

so they will unconsciously take it out on their loved ones - a product of inferior FI they must struggle with in life. So they may actually take a lot of abuse from their bosses if they see no other way to be free until they finally snap.

Again, only severely unhealthy ENTJs - actually, it’s not even type related, any type can do this.

They actually don't realize they are victims until days later when they understand the subtle dynamics of what has occured...so this is why they are so hard and reluctant to expose their underbellies. Sometimes this anger displacement is simply shutting down and being remote when the other needs you to be open and sensitive and sometime they are sudden outbursts.

Since I disagree with the above, I will tell you of times when subtle dynamics do hurt them. This is dependent on how close you are to the ENTJ, if you’re in the outer circle, they’re sharp and recognize manipulative tactics quickly. In the inner circle, it’s different; it took a while for my father to realize that his brothers were using him for his wealth because he loved them deeply. He was very affected and this manifested in displaced anger because he wasn’t sure how to cope with the hurt feelings.

It's because the ENTJ feels oppressed by routine yet conforms to it as a means of control and furthering one's own freedom. It's a matte of "if you can't beat them join them," and also changing the system by conforming to it.

That’s true but they don’t hurt those they love. They challenge the system until a resolution is achieved.
 
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