[INTJ] Is he going to ignore me?

[johnnyyukon]

In any case it was his birthday on Wednesday. I mailed him a belated bday card this morning, just a silly platonic one. No feelz attached. I don't expect a response. Honestly I'm probably going to reach out to him, sometime soon and see if he would be willing to meet with me in person.

Man, you are tenacious.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I think you can define a real man, or at least some things. A provider, a protector, a lover. Women want to feel loved/wanted, safe, and comfortable, among other things.

The highlighted apply just as well to women, and the underscored just as well to men. We are all just as human as those laser-chasing cats are feline.

Weeeelllll, I don't want my woman protecting me. Nor do I want a sugar mama (or do I?). And sure, I wanna feel loved and cozy and comfortable, but "safe" in regards to my self-preservation from any outside physical or verbal aggression, that's on me. And on me to provide that. Or at least in my vision.

I had a big bad boxing coach with 3 kids and a wife tell me once that when you take on that role of family man, you, in a sense, become their bodyguard. Not that there's people trying to assassinate you, but there are dangers out there.

I don't think that woman=man. Not that one is superior to the other, both genders have unique gifts, and are equal, but in different ways. Sure, you can get a wimpy guy that's dating a female boxing heavy weight, and makes all the money, but I'd say that's the exception.

Virtually all species of animals, especially social ones, have specific roles that are true throughout generations and in different regions. Lions protect the pride from the threat of other male lions, and the lionesses hunt, for example. We're not lions, but that is one of MANY examples. Chimps and bonobos have different gender roles, as do baboons, wolves, jaguars, etc. etc. But within a particular species, it's generally the same.

 

[Coriolis]

Weeeelllll, I don't want my woman protecting me. Nor do I want a sugar mama (or do I?). And sure, I wanna feel loved and cozy and comfortable, but "safe" in regards to my self-preservation from any outside physical or verbal aggression, that's on me. And on me to provide that. Or at least in my vision.

I had a big bad boxing coach with 3 kids and a wife tell me once that when you take on that role of family man, you, in a sense, become their bodyguard. Not that there's people trying to assassinate you, but there are dangers out there.

I don't think that woman=man. Not that one is superior to the other, both genders have unique gifts, and are equal, but in different ways. Sure, you can get a wimpy guy that's dating a female boxing heavy weight, and makes all the money, but I'd say that's the exception.

Virtually all species of animals, especially social ones, have specific roles that are true throughout generations and in different regions. Lions protect the pride from the threat of other male lions, and the lionesses hunt, for example. We're not lions, but that is one of MANY examples. Chimps and bonobos have different gender roles, as do baboons, wolves, jaguars, etc. etc. But within a particular species, it's generally the same.

I suspect you have already been protected by a woman. What do think your mother would have done, had someone tried to hurt you as a child? If you want to find examples in the wild, you will see that some of the fiercest protectors are mothers defending their young. In the modern age, there are far more dangers than being attacked by thugs on the street. Perhaps your wife will be the one to set up the home computer network, with appropriate firewalls and multi-factor authentication for your online finances. Perhaps she will have a security system installed, or network with the neighborhood watch for the family. Women have always been involved in protecting their families, and always will, macho men notwithstanding.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I suspect you have already been protected by a woman. What do think your mother would have done, had someone tried to hurt you as a child? If you want to find examples in the wild, you will see that some of the fiercest protectors are mothers defending their young. In the modern age, there are far more dangers than being attacked by thugs on the street. Perhaps your wife will be the one to set up the home computer network, with appropriate firewalls and multi-factor authentication for your online finances. Perhaps she will have a security system installed, or network with the neighborhood watch for the family. Women have always been involved in protecting their families, and always will, macho men notwithstanding.

When I say "protector" I meant as a grown man, and from possible direct physical harm. I've met a lot of single moms that have bigger dogs in the home.

Of COURSE women protect their children (and even their husbands, in ways) And in many documented cases, without mercy, and at lengths that maybe a man isn't even capable of (searching for a missing child for 20 years).

 

[johnnyyukon]

Btw, I'm going to need some closure on this thread.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Btw, I'm going to need some closure on this thread.

lol


The perfect woman/man combo will complement each other in the exact ways to enable them to become one flesh. God made each man and woman uniquely different, there are as many variations of expression of male and female as their are people on the earth.

When you find the right woman/man all of those concerns will be for naught.


edit: and i'd say the OP has some sort of reactive-attachment disorder, because every time her love interest tried to get close, she pulled away, and when he left, she desired him again.

 

[rayna]

Long story short. I reached out to him and he was pretty much like wtf... He never got the email at all. He said he doesn't even use that email anymore and hasn't in years. He said that when I stopped contacting him he assumed i wasn't interested and that because we were just fwbs that perhaps I had moved on. In any case he said he just started seeing a girl he met last week. So I've learned a few lessons--always track emails to make sure that they are looked at and received, be honest in person and don't play games and communicate better. I still feel that at any rate if he truly felt deeply he would have checked on me to see if I had really moved on. On the otherhand, I should have trusted my instincts and contacted him and asked if he had received it-like I said I was going to do, a few weeks ago. But the one thing I feel good about is that his lack of response wasn't because of anything beyond him not getting it. He's aware of it now though, but since he's dating someone new it's too late. I plan to not contact him anymore and move on. I feel sad somewhat but also feel relief that I've got closure on this. Perhaps in many ways learnin these lessons will help me with the next guy I meet. I always feel like if a situation doesn't work out right, and you feel like you did what you could, that it's because either it was not going to work out the right way and the universe was simply helping to detour that. Also in most cases it's because there is something even better for you.

So with that being said, now that this chapter is closed, I'm ready to move on and feel(surprisingly) okay about it. He now knows how I feel-if he ever reads it, and at least there is that.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Long story short. I reached out to him and he was pretty much like wtf... He never got the email at all. He said he doesn't even use that email anymore and hasn't in years. He said that when I stopped contacting him he assumed i wasn't interested and that because we were just fwbs that perhaps I had moved on. In any case he said he just started seeing a girl he met last week. So I've learned a few lessons--always track emails to make sure that they are looked at and received, be honest in person and don't play games and communicate better. I still feel that at any rate if he truly felt deeply he would have checked on me to see if I had really moved on. On the otherhand, I should have trusted my instincts and contacted him and asked if he had received it-like I said I was going to do, a few weeks ago. But the one thing I feel good about is that his lack of response wasn't because of anything beyond him not getting it. He's aware of it now though, but since he's dating someone new it's too late. I plan to not contact him anymore and move on. I feel sad somewhat but also feel relief that I've got closure on this. Perhaps in many ways learnin these lessons will help me with the next guy I meet. I always feel like if a situation doesn't work out right, and you feel like you did what you could, that it's because either it was not going to work out the right way and the universe was simply helping to detour that. Also in most cases it's because there is something even better for you.

So with that being said, now that this chapter is closed, I'm ready to move on and feel(surprisingly) okay about it. He now knows how I feel-if he ever reads it, and at least there is that.

I feel some closure on this thread.

And you seem to have a clear head about it. Definitely sadness will come, but all part of healing and shit. It'll pass.

Kind of wild that he never got the email. Like you hinted at, could be a sign from the universe. I personally take those things as important signs.

I'm certainly not planting seeds in your head, as you probably already thought of it or it's already happened, but I wonder what his response to the email is.

In any case, glad this chapter is closed or closing. Good luck!

 

[rayna]

Hmm. Yep there is sadness but I'm ok. And yes I do wonder if once he reads it now that he's aware that he should check this email what he will think. In any case him moving on after five weeks of us not talking and being that exclusive means it's serious and that he most likely never felt that way about me since he did not move that quickly with me.

 

[Coriolis]

I always feel like if a situation doesn't work out right, and you feel like you did what you could, that it's because either it was not going to work out the right way and the universe was simply helping to detour that. Also in most cases it's because there is something even better for you.

This has been my experience as well. It sounds like you are being quite reasonable about the whole thing, and learning what you can from it to help you in the future. Good luck!

 

[EcK]

Who said alpha male...don't put words in my mouth. A real man treats a woman good, takes care of her(and I don't mean working long hours . I worked 8-9 hours a day to make sure I spend time with both my son and whoever I am dating

Hey Poki,

Just a quick well, update I guess.
I know we've had some sort of argument a few months back.

Looking back I may have been over aggressive on this one.

To put it plainly I was offended by your applying universals to your own choices. Though I do understand of course what you meant.
I tend to get ticked off when people say 'disguting' for something that disgusts them or 'real man' to define what they want to be.

I know women like protectors and all that stuff, it's kinda biological anthropology/life experience 101.
However I don't think that gives anyone the right to state that somehow makes other men inferior.

Let's face it, women are often not subjected to this sort of things.
Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)

In summary: It's my opinion that assigning belittling tags to a large number of other people of your own gender is certainly not going to resolve anything

 

[Poki]

Hey Poki,

Just a quick well, update I guess.
I know we've had some sort of argument a few months back.

Looking back I may have been over aggressive on this one.

To put it plainly I was offended by your applying universals to your own choices. Though I do understand of course what you meant.
I tend to get ticked off when people say 'disguting' for something that disgusts them or 'real man' to define what they want to be.

I know women like protectors and all that stuff, it's kinda biological anthropology/life experience 101.
However I don't think that gives anyone the right to state that somehow makes other men inferior.

Let's face it, women are often not subjected to this sort of things.
Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)

In summary: It's my opinion that assigning belittling tags to a large number of other people of your own gender is certainly not going to resolve anything

Agree, I have very high standards for men, lesser for women, but still have standards. They actually revolve around caring, loving, helping, time, etc. I guess what it comes down to for me is that a real man puts the woman first and a real woman puts the man first.

I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.

I am just frustrated with alot of men because they put themselves first and you should put the woman first, I see alot of women who put men first and don't get the same. It's all a perception thing based on what I see. Not all men are like this. One of my good friends found an awesome guy. He doesn't make much money, he doesn't know how to use tools, he doesn't really match the "typical guy" but he treats her with respect, kindness, caring, loving, etc. To me that is a real man. He tries his hardest to make sure every minute both are not at work he is with her because he works strange hours. She is the same way as he is.

While I may speak harshly about men in general, I look at each man for what he does based on the woman he is with. I try not to judge an individual man on real vs not without taking the woman into consideration in regard to relationships. I try to generalize...a real man puts forth the effort, now the direction of effort depends on the woman he is with. I hold her to the same standards.

Hope this doesn't offend you. I would rather change the image of what a real man is because it got screwed up along the way and seems to revolve around "its all about me" because that means I am strong and in control.

 

[EcK]

Agree, I have very high standards for men, lesser for women, but still have standards. They actually revolve around caring, loving, helping, time, etc. I guess what it comes down to for me is that a real man puts the woman first and a real woman puts the man first.

I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.

I am just frustrated with alot of men because they put themselves first and you should put the woman first, I see alot of women who put men first and don't get the same. It's all a perception thing based on what I see. Not all men are like this. One of my good friends found an awesome guy. He doesn't make much money, he doesn't know how to use tools, he doesn't really match the "typical guy" but he treats her with respect, kindness, caring, loving, etc. To me that is a real man. He tries his hardest to make sure every minute both are not at work he is with her because he works strange hours. She is the same way as he is.

While I may speak harshly about men in general, I look at each man for what he does based on the woman he is with. I try not to judge an individual man on real vs not without taking the woman into consideration in regard to relationships. I try to generalize...a real man puts forth the effort, now the direction of effort depends on the woman he is with. I hold her to the same standards.

Hope this doesn't offend you. I would rather change the image of what a real man is because it got screwed up along the way and seems to revolve around "its all about me" because that means I am strong and in control.

txh for the answer, im going out now. will answer later

 

[Coriolis]

Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)

This social pressure on men has been even slower to change than the social pressure on women. But then women won't be free of these constraints until men are as well. My brother-in-law ran afoul of exactly what you describe. His wife supported him through a lengthy period of unemployment and then temporary disability, and many in the family looked down on him for being lazy and not pulling his weight. Had the situations been reversed, no one would have thought anything of it. This needs to change so that, as Poki writes, each couple is free to do what makes sense for them.

I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.

Exactly.

 

[INTJ123]

I think enfp turns me off.