[MBTI General] As an NT, do you care about logic?

[á´…eparted]

Not NT, but honestly, who wouldn't care about logic?

 

[skgarcia]

In my very humble opinion, there are times logic does not and cannot apply. Comprehending and actually trying to visualize what space and time "are" leads most hyper-logical minds scratching their heads.

I don't believe in a good or bad "God" other than the captains of our own boats, however with the world in its current state could anyone be sane and logical simultaneously?

 

[skgarcia]

It's reaching a point where I almost feel as if terms like "logic" should be done away with just for being plain crappy. Reality, and thus its lack or total acquisition of rationality, is the ultimate subjective state. How do you judge your neighbor's logic when you aren't quite sure your own makes sense?

 

[INTP]

In my very humble opinion, there are times logic does not and cannot apply.

Agreed(at least partially), but that doesent mean that one couldnt care a lot about logic or being mostly logic oriented person. Imo logic can be induced in anything, the problem is that with some cases there isnt enough info to figure out the logic and if you try to do that, you just end up hitting your head on the wall..

 

[Coriolis]

In my very humble opinion, there are times logic does not and cannot apply. Comprehending and actually trying to visualize what space and time "are" leads most hyper-logical minds scratching their heads?

Logic is always applicable, but often insufficient.

 

[skgarcia]

Agreed(at least partially), but that doesent mean that one couldnt care a lot about logic or being mostly logic oriented person. Imo logic can be induced in anything, the problem is that with some cases there isnt enough info to figure out the logic and if you try to do that, you just end up hitting your head on the wall..

That is when you realize what I posted above you--there are times when it cannot apply logically (hehe). If we waited for all our questions to be answered only by science and logic, we'd be waiting (and frankly already have been) forever.

An example would be pointillism artwork. In this type of art, the artist makes thousands of tiny, separate dots, that from far away make a legitimate picture. Physics is the same way. The closer you inspect the tiny details, less and less makes sense. The further away you look at things, the image becomes more orderly and able to be interpreted, edited, added onto, etc. Likewise, if you continued to inspect any single dot in a pointillism piece searching for the deeper meaning behind its existential make up, you'd hit a proverbial brick wall. It's just a bunch of circles, orchestrated into perfection by a creator looking at the image from a much further-away view. The creator lacks logic, creating and manipulating objects as he sees fit; the interpreter seeks how and why based on principles their own minds have constructed, logic.

 

[Opal]

I value the use of logic in decision making, execution and persuasion, but often find it insufficient for understanding others' meanings and motivations.

 

[skgarcia]

^ What you had said.

 

[INTP]

That is when you realize what I posted above you--there are times when it cannot apply logically (hehe). If we waited for all our questions to be answered only by science and logic, we'd be waiting (and frankly already have been) forever.

An example would be pointillism artwork. In this type of art, the artist makes thousands of tiny, separate dots, that from far away make a legitimate picture. Physics is the same way. The closer you inspect the tiny details, less and less makes sense. The further away you look at things, the image becomes more orderly and able to be interpreted, edited, added onto, etc. Likewise, if you continued to inspect any single dot in a pointillism piece searching for the deeper meaning behind its existential make up, you'd hit a proverbial brick wall. It's just a bunch of circles, orchestrated into perfection by a creator looking at the image from a much further-away view. The creator lacks logic, creating and manipulating objects as he sees fit; the interpreter seeks how and why based on principles their own minds have constructed, logic.

Yea, but its logical to not try to analyze things with logic past a certain point.

Just an example of how art what seems to be irrational by nature can be done rationally via logic. What comes to art in general, well there is a logic in circles orchestrated into perfection(i have done enough photography and graffiti to figure out what makes a good composition and the rules of composition also apply between the dots in pointillism). There is also logic when you are making some art work to send a message to receiver(which i cant be arsed to list). When art strikes people especially strongly it usually evokes some complex with most likely quite strong archetypal origins. When making art and putting your heart and soul into it, it is most likely that you are projecting complexes and/or archetypes onto it. Now when you are making the art piece and you recognize what you are doing and what you want viewers to see on the work, you can point to certain details and areas by using shadings and such and you can boost the overall theme of the work by using proper colors and shapes. Often great artists do this sort of things without putting any conscious effort in it just by looking at what fits according to some unconscious principles, but one can do the same thing(and maybe figure out how to put even more to the art) consciously.

 

[Obsidius]

Yes, it is a very valuable tool.

 

[Passacaglia]

It may seem strange, but does logic matter?

NTs are supposed to be the rational MBTI, but IMHO logic is a spent force, and seldom existent in humans. I think only dopes "act logically".

I used to be a logic dope.

But at some point I realized that most people revel in their illogic, so logic dictates that the best way to get what I want from people is to indulge them.

 

[BadOctopus]

Hells yeah, I do. To quote Sherlock Holmes, "My brain has always governed my heart."

However, I am learning to appreciate the value of letting logic work in tandem with emotion. While I believe it's a terrible idea to make decisions based solely on emotion, it can be just as foolish to approach everything with cold rationality. History has shown that logic without compassion can produce scary results.

 

[Obsidius]

I agree with the above, logic without compassion is dangerous. That being said, logic still needs to be the primary faculty used when it comes to decision making, I think.

 

[Paris34]

Well, it depends what logic means.

Are we talking about, logic based in fact or logic as personal reasoning and analytical abilities. Two very different things. The analytical logic of asking why is central to who I am, but fact based logic I always question, because what if . . . and it would be foolish to think we as humans have even scratched the surface of knowledge.

And I'm aware of the pitfalls of logic, as not all emotions can be logic'ed through, but say I'm confused in a relationship, instead of obsessing and stewing in my feelings, I'll probably have an open conversation with my partner because thats the only way you can really make sense of whats going on: kindness, honesty, and vulnerability... but I did just use logic. I make an effort to be kind to others and show them compassion and empathy, because I understand the importance of feelings and emotions as human being. I want to be treated kindly and with respect, so I treat others in a similar manner, yet there does seem to be a logic to my understanding of emotions . . .

Although if you get into therapy tools like CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) its basically logic'ing your way through emotions using your own subjective logic to have a clearer understanding of your emotions and other's emotions...

 

[Coriolis]

I agree with the above, logic without compassion is dangerous. That being said, logic still needs to be the primary faculty used when it comes to decision making, I think.

The logic that runs amok is typically working from flawed inputs, particuarly values inputs that keep goals consistent.

 

[Obsidius]

The logic that runs amok is typically working from flawed inputs, particuarly values inputs that keep goals consistent.

That is true, it's important that even logic void of fallacies can still be inapplicable in reality due to factual errors. As you said, flawed inputs, which is why a lot of people misconstrue logical arguments for the existence or ones that bolster the veracity of particular claims as truth, whilst ignoring some obvious flawed inputs. Takes a lot of practice to identify these flaws though.

 

[Bknight]

Absolutely. It frustrates me enormously when people act irrationally or illogically, especially in arguments ( i.e. "that's not true, that's not true, la la la, can't hear you!").

Rhyme completely unintended.

 

[Chthonic]

I think everyone has logic irrespective of type, but the type of logic also differs. I care about being able to follow someone's logic because otherwise I can't understand them or get their meaning. Social logic is one that's problematic for me, no matter how closely I study it I just can't discern a pattern that makes sense and in many cases social logic runs counter to my internal values too. A lot of social logic requires that internal values take a back seat to group values in order to maintain group harmony. This is where I struggle as often I can't understand why my internal value is at odds with the group one. And often I am angered by group values which seem off to me. The explanation of many values or customs seems to because thats not nice. Which says absolutely nothing to me at all.

 

[BlueScreen]

Logics are overrated and are not always the best approach to solving problems.

 

[AOA]

Strangely, yeah I do. Sadly even, actually. :/

Hopefully, it'll die away with my purpose from God now.

Gods actually possess Intelligence not to need to be frankly logical. Instead, we exist in super fantasies.