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[NT] Politically Correct

rogue350

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Do you all concern yourselves with being politically correct? I wonder if feelers are more concerned with being politically correct. I think people need to be offended every once in a while and changing every word I say to not offend people is a pain. I don't think it is that big of a deal. Thoughts and opinions?
 

The Ü™

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I see political correctness as condescending, a waste of time, and most of all, a waste of brain power. Who honestly wants to watch how they say things when they're trying to get their thoughts across? And there's nothing worse than saying "You people" and someone out there takes it out of context.

I think it's exactly an SFJ thing to be politically correct, because the nature of it seems very safety- and niceness-oriented. Safety because being politically incorrect upsets the order of things, and niceness because they're trying to make everyone happy. Good luck with that.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Mostly, it makes me think of Michael Scott. I used to concern myself with it, I don't do so any longer.
 

skylights

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"Political correctness" is a distasteful term to me. I don't like sugarcoating for the sake of it. That term inspires thoughts of red tape and uninformed bureaucracy, too - like being officially "correct" but not successfully achieving anything.

I do try to be conscientious of how my communication impacts other people. While there is some value to shock, people are also affected by confirmation bias, and sometimes a few minor tweaks in wording can get a message through successfully where it wouldn't get through otherwise. Generally the more "distance" between myself and another, be that culture, age, gender, or any other factor, the more I try to be aware that there may be gaps in the way we communicate. I don't consider rewording my thoughts a personal responsibility, though, not any further than trying to be conscientious of others.

On the subject of NTs, my INTP father is surprisingly affected by communication at times. He gets upset if I curse because he "doesn't want [his] daughter to talk like that". He struggled to understand why I winced when he called our cat "pussy" but got extremely offended by me using the word "fuck", because apparently it used to be extremely offensive. I found this curious. I try to respect it around him.

The Ü™ said:
Who honestly wants to watch how they say things when they're trying to get their thoughts across?

Well, I feel like I choose all of my words, all the time. No exact set of external words ever corresponds perfectly to my internal cognition. To me it seems like a balance of choosing the most precise and most effective wording possible. Language is a two-way street... if the word I'm using doesn't mean the same thing to me as it does to someone else, then my idea isn't being conveyed as accurately as possible. So to me it's a matter of idea integrity as well.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I do try to be conscientious of how my communication impacts other people. While there is some value to shock, people are also affected by confirmation bias, and sometimes a few minor tweaks in wording can get a message through successfully where it wouldn't get through otherwise.

I agree with this part, but this is also part of what bothers me. It's purely a surface gesture... it seems to care little for ideas, and cares only for the specific words or phrases that are used. It also seems to be popular as a way of kind of helping people to feel better about the parts of themselves they don't like. This manifests itself in the odd inconsistencies people always display with political correctness. A lot of people who are really into political correctness do not seem to be as close to being the bastion of tolerance that they would like themselves to be.

It seems to be more about helping people feel better about themselves and their sense of morality than it is about actually changing anything. And this becomes an issue when they become livid that I'm not all that interested in participating. I think everyone's a little bit racist, and sometimes it seems that the people who are more "politically correct" are more so, because it is repressed. I just end up seeing the racism come out in other ways, even if those ways fly under the radar, because they aren't using bad words.
 

skylights

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I agree with this part, but this is also part of what bothers me. It's purely a surface gesture... it seems to care little for ideas, and cares only for the specific words or phrases that are used. It also seems to be popular as a way of kind of helping people to feel better about the parts of themselves they don't like. This manifests itself in the odd inconsistencies people always display with political correctness. A lot of people who are really into political correctness do not seem to be as close to being the bastion of tolerance that they would like themselves to be.

It seems to be more about helping people feel better about themselves and their sense of morality than it is about actually changing anything.

Yes, I agree with you here, and I think this is where the idea of "political correctness" and bureaucracy comes in versus simply being aware with your speech. It's the idea of surface treatment versus genuine communication. I too dislike the idea of skating over the top of actual issues. Pretending like a wound isn't there, or covering it up with a patch-fix when it needs to be gutted and cleaned just lets it fester and get worse.

A lot of times it seems like situations that emphasize political correctness are covering something up. My university administration did it with racial inclusion... I had a friend who was very into racial inclusion and he led a protest movement emphasizing how radically white our university was compared with surrounding similar institutions and the surrounding area. He made the case that the university didn't make much of an effort to reach out to minority populations in the community, and instead reached out to white groups much further away. They effectively told him he was making a racket and shut his project down based on claims of inappropriate language.

I don't think we should have forbidden words or forbidden ideas, but I do think it's preferable to consciously choose how one uses their words and to try to be aware of how others will interpret them so that one can most accurately match the message to the intention, whether that be to harmonize and soothe or to shock or expose, or simply lay out an idea in neutrality. I have a suspicion that Ts in general prefer and tend to interpret in neutrality, while Fs both read and utilize more emotion in communication.

msg_v2 said:
I just end up seeing the racism come out in other ways, even if those ways fly under the radar, because they aren't using bad words.

Yeah. Things always come out in one way or another.
 

rogue350

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Does it bother a mail lady if she is called the mailman? Does it bother women that the Bible addresses humankind as man? If I was a nurse I wouldn't care if people called me a "male nurse" because that is what I am and it's just more specific. I understand being "politically correct" if it makes you more specific but I wouldn't change my words in order to please someone. I don't think people should use racial slurs unless they're being funny. My problem is that I find a lot of stereotypes and racial slurs funny. I have my limits and restraints though.

In addition, people use euphemisms like "passed away" rather than "was murdered" or "died". I think people should just use the darn word! No need to beat around the bush and sugar coat things. I don't really care.
 

The Ü™

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Does it bother a mail lady if she is called the mailman? Does it bother women that the Bible addresses humankind as man? If I was a nurse I wouldn't care if people called me a "male nurse" because that is what I am and it's just more specific. I understand being "politically correct" if it makes you more specific but I wouldn't change my words in order to please someone. I don't think people should use racial slurs unless they're being funny. My problem is that I find a lot of stereotypes and racial slurs funny. I have my limits and restraints though.

In addition, people use euphemisms like "passed away" rather than "was murdered" or "died". I think people should just use the darn word! No need to beat around the bush and sugar coat things. I don't really care.

And let's not forget about labeling blind people as visually challenged or specially abled. (1) There is no challenge about it, their eyes are broken. (2) There is no special ability that comes from being blind, unless you're Daredevil. And finally, blind people are not disabled (or differently abled), their eyes are -- that means they're blind. Wouldn't you rather be called blind than disabled?

And then there's, of course, "Happy Holidays." Take a stand. If you don't celebrate holidays, then the proper greeting is "Bah Humbug."
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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And let's not forget about labeling blind people as visually challenged or specially abled. (1) There is no challenge about it, their eyes are broken. (2) There is no special ability that comes from being blind, unless you're Daredevil. And finally, blind people are not disabled (or differently abled), their eyes are -- that means they're blind. Wouldn't you rather be called blind than disabled?
."

Yes. Who the hell wants to be disabled?
 

Hypatia

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Political correctness makes thinkers feel bad.
 

Standuble

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I've always wondered who (or what) decides what's the "in thing" for political correctness. It's something I don't really care about. The irony of it all is that political correctness ends up dehumanising individuals and groups far more than any potentially hurtful statement could. Whenever I think of it I tend to recall a series named "Politically Correct bedtime stories" which highlights the stupidity of the whole concept.

This would usually be the part where I start criticising Fe but I don't think its required in this case.
 

Rail Tracer

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Well, different words have different connotation.

One would be politically correct if he/she had sympathies towards the people who he/she wants to be politically correct with while one who isn't politically correct may be less sympathetic towards.

Example: Hobo is politically incorrect. Homeless is politically correct. Hobo reeks of images of a person who lives on the streets and aren't willing to try to get back into society. It could be someone, due to his carelessness, has caused himself to be without a home and living on the streets. Homeless, on the other hand, speaks of a different connotation of the same thing. However, unlike the first, the images when it comes to the homeless are more forgiving. It speaks that there are people, sometimes through no fault of their own, have to live through extenuating circumstances... where they are forced to live on the streets.
 

Rasofy

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Do you all concern yourselves with being politically correct?
Not really. I think there's a scale sort of like that:

Politically correct ----------- Polite ----------- Cheeky ---------- Impolite ----------- Asshole

Even though that's highly subjective, try not to surpass cheeky and you should be fine.

I wonder if feelers are more concerned with being politically correct.
FJs, perhaps, but not FPs.

I think people need to be offended every once in a while and changing every word I say to not offend people is a pain. I don't think it is that big of a deal. Thoughts and opinions?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I'd rather be a hobo than a homeless person. Hobos have wisdom. Homeless people are just fuck-ups.
 

SensEye

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I'd rather be a hobo than a homeless person. Hobos have wisdom. Homeless people are just fuck-ups.
Me too. And the stereotype always has them riding the rails. So they're well travelled.
 

baccheion

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Do you all concern yourselves with being politically correct? I wonder if feelers are more concerned with being politically correct. I think people need to be offended every once in a while and changing every word I say to not offend people is a pain. I don't think it is that big of a deal. Thoughts and opinions?

No. Though I often just keep my mouth shut.
 

Qlip

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The only thing that bothers me is that the idea of political correctness postulates the existence of an authority in the matter. Otherwise, I tend to naturally be non-offensive.

Tangentally, I just read Huck Finn for the second time it left me wanting to drop the N-word everywhere. I want to see what a Middle School class sounds like in the hallways after taking that one on in English.
 

chickpea

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If I'm not being offensive, it's because that's what I feel is right. Not because it's proper or politically correct.

Not saying racist or other ignorant shit falls into my own sense of correctness. No outside pressure needed.
 

chubber

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I like blond and blue eyes... no problem
I like black woman... attack attack attack

*facepalm* :shock:
 

two cents

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It's amazing how many people seem to equate being "politically correct" to being "polite" or even just not being a raging asshole to other people. So, if we are talking about political correctness, let's define our terms first, shall we?

Being "politically correct" means not saying derogatory things about traditionally persecuted groups, because doing so is a type of persecution. That's why there's the word "political" in there. Because if you are dealing with an individual and you say derogatory things about a group this individual belongs to and/or indicate that the individual in question is not even an individual to you, but merely a representative of that group, and that you despise that group, what you are doing is a political act. You might be being an asshole too, but you are doing something distinctly different from (for example) telling someone they are ugly. What you are doing is contributing to the persecution of a group.

To that end, not being politically correct makes you an even bigger asshole. But sure, if you want to be one, that's your choice. That's the other thing about being "politically correct" is, it's not legally enforced. I.E. you can't go to jail for being politically incorrect. You might want to brace yourself for social consequences, however, i.e. being criticized and being called an asshole. That's freedom of speech at work.

As for "everybody needing to be offended from time to time"... do you honestly believe that people who belong to persecuted minorities somehow lack reasons/opportunities to be offended in their lives? And even if you did believe such a preposterous thing, how does it make it your job to offend them, or give them a dose of "reality"? In addition, even if you believe that and also believe it's your job to offend people, why do you think it's important for you to offend them in specifically the way that makes the offense politically incorrect, i.e. by invoking and participating in the persecution of the group(s) this person belongs to? Can you not just be offensive in any of a million other ways? It really doesn't take that much effort or imagination...

It seems to me that people who love to bash "political correctness" are people who are somewhat deficient in social graces and can't seem to avoid offending people whether they meant to or not, but don't want to face social consequences (i.e. being criticized and disliked) for this. That's why they like to conflate "political correctness" to politeness or not offending people. That's a neat little straw man, but it doesn't actually get you off the hook for offensive behavior. Granted, it's almost impossible to go through life without ever offending somebody, but the correct response to "accidentally" giving offense is not by doubling down on being an inconsiderate asshole. Also, I realize that public opinion is not even remotely infallible, but maybe if something you are doing is consistently offensive to a lot of people, it's worth re-considering your position every once in a while (even if you keep coming to the same conclusion), just, you know, to see if you might think of new reasons why everybody is on your case about it.
 
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