• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTJ] Feeling Good.....Just Destroyed INTJ in Debate

idkman24

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
One of my best friends is an INTJ. We have been best friends for about 14, 15 years.

I can't stand a lot about him. Education matters, but isn't the end all. I've graduated from a prestigious University, he dropped out from 2 community colleges. He has been jobless for what seems like more than a year, ANY money he gets his hands on goes to weed, he drinks all throughout the day, and the only thing that matters to him is his ISFJ girlfriend who has emotional and self-esteem issues of her own. He's megalomaniacal, thinks he's WAY smarter than he actually is, and REALLY overestimates his own intelligence and ability.

Tonight, I drank some wine, and over Facebook messaging, I tore him a new one, and it felt GREAT.

Usually, he'll make a statement that I know is false or stupid, but I'll agree because I don't want to show him up. From talking to people on PerC, they encouraged me to argue against him, he'd appreciate it if he was INTJ.

The topic was American Horror Story.

Now, I have to preface this saying he's absolutely NOT homophobic.

He has told me that the show has its "gays" because it's "a girl's show" based solely on the fact that there are primarily female characters and it was written by the Glee people. We've argued before on how (I was saying -- being a person of color) that people of color cannot be racist. Most people don't understand this, and I was trying to explain to him, he wouldn't have it, so I left it at that.

Tonight, I went HAM.

I told him tonight's episode showed that AHS agrees with me regarding racism. He, trying to belittle me, says "that show's not real." I told him "oh yeah, that makes sense, there is no such city in America called New Orleans."

He then called the actresses robotic. I explained to him that it was an all-star cast filled with Golden Globe winners. I admitted that awards were mostly political, but there weren't any HUGE names that anyone would benefit from them winning their award (a stretch -- but he's not smart enough to really argue the politics of award shows).

Then I told him "and besides, it's better than most shows you watch" (he actually does SOMETHING when he's stuck in his room all day, getting high. If he was reading or writing, I wouldn't be so pissed at him. But he watches shows).

This is a direct quote (after he told me the show was lame and I explained to him it's better than 90% of the shows he watches):
I like corny when its intentional, but when its just because of over and under acting its lame

I explained to him how dumb that statement was. He said the show "tries too hard" (which, I kind of agree with).

So I told him that he prefers to watch a show that is INTENTIONALLY more sucky when AHS is CLEARLY better, by his own admission AND that he hates the show because of its predominantly female cast.

I then explained to him the definition of sexism and how he was being a sexist.

Then he asked me to "stop calling him out on something he doesn't give a shit about. It's obnoxious." Then he says I am acting like a former friend who uses MBTI to prescribe people with personality faults.

I explain to him that I'm merely trying to understand, and I'm using direct quotes from HIM. My friend used to take what I said, COMPLETELY twisted it, and sometimes, his "direct quotes" from me was apples and oranges to what I ACTUALLY said.

Then, he said "it's not sexist for not wanting to watch a show for girls."

I explained to him that he CLEARLY stated that it was "for girls because there WERE girls."

He said he doesn't care, but he hates that the show talks about teenage girl issues.

Now, talking to him, one of his biggest defenses (he hates when I talk about souls and what not) is that "it's not REAL." He hates AHS because it talks about the paranormal and it's not REAL.

So, I reply, "aren't teenage girl issues REAL? You like real..."

I told him he was a walking contradiction (not just in this argument, but ALL THE F***ING time. I didn't tell him that though. This was the first time I've called him a contradiction in 15 years. I'm not the only one of his friends pissed about this).

Then he told me he was always joking (big time backpedaling here). And says I do exactly what my former friend used to do. I explain to him that, unlike my friend, I'm just trying to see his viewpoint and I'm not inferring ANYTHING from what he says, I'm just taking EXACTLY what he says and putting it into context, and that HE'S the one that's being a walking contradiction.

He then calls me names and starts cussing at me.

I explain to him that "he who has nothing left to throw but stones has admitted his own defeat"

Unwilling to admit that I completely derailed him in argument, he says "that's COMPLETELY not what is happening here. You are being obnoxious, you are being annoying, so I'm going to ignore you."

I just say "haha take care."

He's an unhealthy INTJ (although, at times, I think an unhealthy INFJ, but still unhealthy nonetheless). I was helping him apply to jobs before, I told him to make a resume, he told me he has "nothing to put on a resume." Yet he talks about becoming an architect and how he KNOWS he's going to make 6 figures one day. Yet he sits in his room with his enabling girlfriend doing nothing all day. How long he has been away from work is reason enough to believe that NO drafting school would take him UNLESS he gets books on his own, reads, and drafts his OWN blueprint. HAHAHAHA the thought is hilarious.

Perhaps, for his sake, it may be best to lose him as a friend, and just derail him to bring him back down to Earth so he can see that his shit isn't shiny as he thinks. Maybe that'll light a fire under him.

Well, anyways, this has been a half vent, a half "hurrah" moment. This kid hasn't read a single bit of philosophy, I'm a philosophy major who reads and even writes his own philosophy JUST FOR FUN, yet he has the gall to say I'm wrong, at times, in regards to philosophy with no backing. Just to give you a picture of how he is.

Still, he knows how to make me laugh, he listens when I am having a problem (though his advice is usually god awful), & he tolerates me. My parents think the only reason why I'm still friends with him is because it's easy, and he's easily accessible (lives less than a block away from me). For years I've been thinking about losing him as a friend. I toss the idea in my head everyday.

Thoughts?

NOTE: I was a diversity trainer in college. He knows it pisses me off to hear the words "gay," "f@g," "ret@rd," and words like that. He tells me that "I take it too literally," which lately I've told him "open a book and read." Yes, we are starting to get testy w/ each other. He still uses these words and questions my authority when I tell him "I know you don't HATE women, but yes, that's sexism, dude."
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
:ninja: So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
5,950
MBTI Type
N/A
Enneagram
N/A
Tertiary Ti attacking tertiary Fi.

Still, he knows how to make me laugh, he listens when I am having a problem (though his advice is usually god awful), & he tolerates me. My parents think the only reason why I'm still friends with him is because it's easy, and he's easily accessible (lives less than a block away from me). For years I've been thinking about losing him as a friend. I toss the idea in my head everyday.

Thoughts?

I would focus on the bold.

Now, this next part is going to sound harsh, but, if you've been thinking about losing him as a friend every single day, maybe you should just do that rather than live out the need to tear him a new one? What purpose does that even serve here? This approach will not "light a fire under him". This is not the optimal way to deal with tert Fi, although it is the way to hurt tert Fi.

eta: sorry, I see now this is in the Personal NT sub-forum ... if you were only looking for NT input, my apologies.
 

kquirk

amateur cartographer
Joined
Jul 28, 2013
Messages
221
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
593
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What are some of the bad shows that your friend watches?

I haven't seen any American Horror Story since the first four or five episodes from season 1. It wasn't my favorite. I wanted it to be scarier and less soap opera-y. I do get the sense that it aims more for female viewership, not that that's a bad thing. Plenty of media is aimed at males. If it's good, it's good. It doesn't matter what it's about.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
Jesus christ, for how long did you bottle up these feelings? I would suggest you to release your hatred for your friend more frequently.
 

digesthisickness

✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,248
MBTI Type
ENTP
Dude. There's no reason to debate him to win; he's kicking his own ass.
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,431
:ninja: So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...
ikr :doh:
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
#1: called the actresses robotic.
#2: it was an all-star cast filled with Golden Globe winners.

#2 does not refute #1.

idkman24 said:
I explain to him that "he who has nothing left to throw but stones has admitted his own defeat"

Your entire post is throwing stones at your "best friend."

Amargith said:
So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...

Such hostility. ;)
 

digesthisickness

✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,248
MBTI Type
ENTP
I never understood the concept of winning/losing a debate over personal opinions. And, by that, I mean calling it a debate.
 

SpankyMcFly

Level 8 Propaganda Bot
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
2,349
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
461
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I never understood the concept of winning/losing a debate over personal opinions. And, by that, I mean calling it a debate.

Yeah, I agree, but some people like raw tomatoes, and we ALL know raw tomatoes are gross. Don't make me "prove" it!

@ [MENTION=20069]idkman24[/MENTION] That's a lot of hostility there. Is it worth it?
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
FINE!! make the world blind, but remember there's not enough pianos to go around
 

idkman24

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
134
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
3w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't want to start debating this on TypeC, but no, people of color cannot be "racist." It's a power structure thing.

Talking to this kid is frustrating. He still gets invited to stuff because, well, friends know that my first question is going to be "hey, can xxxxx come too?" Sometimes, I'M not even invited to stuff because they know I'll ask if he can come too.

He has an EXTREME case of "I know EVERYTHING." Most notably, lately, he SWEARS he knows everything about psychology. Never opened a book in his life, yet claims to understand all of human nature. He says my studying of MBTI (he thinks MBTI is BS) is a "stupid approach to psychology." Yet his "I just know what people are going to do" method is a GREAT approach.

And when he is wrong (and this goes for ANYTHING -- not just psychology), he'll give you every excuse in the book.

I sort of knew this would happen. When I decided to destroy him with his own logic, he curls up in a corner and starts cussing.

He also thinks he's smarter than everyone else and intrinsically better. I think this is a young NT thing because my 25 year old brother (who'd I consider, more or less, healthy) has told me the same thing.

I have another INTJ best friend who attends Johns Hopkins University of Medicine. He used to be the biggest arrogant prick in high school, now he's the most stand up guy I know. I really value him. I have two INTJ best friends on the exact opposite ends of the spectrum.

EDIT: If he told me he didn't like the show because he just thought it was very poorly done, I'd disagree, but I'd respect that. He doesn't like the show because it has its "gay moments" and "written by the Glee people" is really an awful reason, so I used this to address a bigger problem about him.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Such hostility. ;)

Wait..is that an admiring look, Mr. Kitty? :wink:



****
Actually, it was awe and a sort of epiphany wrt things clicking together. I've never seen it demonstrated that..clearly before. You have to remember, Ti is my blindspot...its this elusive little thing I just cannot put my finger on :D

In the spirit of total honesty, I did cringe at the post, not because I did not understand the response - the situation was definitely maddening enough to get under anyone's skin - but because I realise that it won't exactly be conducive to their friendship. Fi rebellion and stubbornness only tends to get fuelled by Ti reprimands, ime, and can set off an all out war for that matter. At the same time, I can totally understand the sense of relief and release you get from using your...well, relief function. Especially when something has been bothering you so much.
 

digesthisickness

✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,248
MBTI Type
ENTP
I don't get why they're friends at all. What's he get out of it that's so great that it's worth all the headache? Geography?
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
I don't get why they're friends at all. What's he get out of it that's so great that it's worth all the headache? Geography?

are they really friends? or are the friendenemies? I mean it points to the latter.
 

digesthisickness

✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,248
MBTI Type
ENTP
are they really friends? or are the friendenemies? I mean it points to the latter.

Don't know. All of my 'friendenemies' I call 'family'. The rest are just static or to be avoided.
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
Don't know. All of my 'friendenemies' I call 'family'. The rest are just static or to be avoided.

they should just become monkies and throw their feces at each other. I don't destroy people I consider friends though.
 

freeeekyyy

Cheeseburgers
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
1,384
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
He sounds like he may have ADD. INTJ are one of the more likely types to have it, and his drug use and inability to actually accomplish the goals he's set for himself, and clear guilt about that, make me think it's quite likely.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
If you're going to destroy him, select something that plays to your strengths like a philosophical point. With Ti, you can run him around in circles so the two of you break out of your Hegelish dependencies.
 

freeeekyyy

Cheeseburgers
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
1,384
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't want to start debating this on TypeC, but no, people of color cannot be "racist." It's a power structure thing.

Talking to this kid is frustrating. He still gets invited to stuff because, well, friends know that my first question is going to be "hey, can xxxxx come too?" Sometimes, I'M not even invited to stuff because they know I'll ask if he can come too.

He has an EXTREME case of "I know EVERYTHING." Most notably, lately, he SWEARS he knows everything about psychology. Never opened a book in his life, yet claims to understand all of human nature. He says my studying of MBTI (he thinks MBTI is BS) is a "stupid approach to psychology." Yet his "I just know what people are going to do" method is a GREAT approach.

And when he is wrong (and this goes for ANYTHING -- not just psychology), he'll give you every excuse in the book.

I sort of knew this would happen. When I decided to destroy him with his own logic, he curls up in a corner and starts cussing.

He also thinks he's smarter than everyone else and intrinsically better. I think this is a young NT thing because my 25 year old brother (who'd I consider, more or less, healthy) has told me the same thing.

I have another INTJ best friend who attends Johns Hopkins University of Medicine. He used to be the biggest arrogant prick in high school, now he's the most stand up guy I know. I really value him. I have two INTJ best friends on the exact opposite ends of the spectrum.

EDIT: If he told me he didn't like the show because he just thought it was very poorly done, I'd disagree, but I'd respect that. He doesn't like the show because it has its "gay moments" and "written by the Glee people" is really an awful reason, so I used this to address a bigger problem about him.

This is the definition of irony.
 
Top