[INTJ] INTJ friend going through a personal crisis

[INTP]

[MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION] you could try saying something like this:

"she has some deep seated self-esteem issues and that perhaps having someone fall "in love" with her gives her some sense of self worth, so she acts like a bitch and its not your fault that she does that. I absolutely believe that you are justified in your decision to leave her and I know that you have contemplated it long and hard before reaching your decision to leave her, but in my opinion you should had left her if not the first time she cheated, but at least the second time."

 

[Usehername]

I think it's most logical to do whatever it takes to get this friend's dignity and sense of self back ASAP. If I was in the crushing despair phase of a bad breakup, I'd be cool with my friends "manipulating" me however they best saw an opportunity to get me back on my feet.

I don't think anyone who let their dignity be degraded like that would be ready for logic. At least not until they acknowledged their anger and shame first. Once you're angry you have some sense of self to work from.

 

[Coriolis]

Well, im pretty good at seeing the cards that people are trying not to show(and i know that INTJs try not to show their cards most the time, but i would suspect that they show their cards more in a romantic relationship), especially if i know the person. Also im really good at not letting the other person know that i have seen his cards(this is where the real power comes from).

There definitely is a difference in romantic relationships. We do show more cards, or at least give the other person freer rein to see them. In other relationships, we play them very selectively and with care, to get what we want.

Bitch means a woman who acts like a female dog in heat. There is no value judgment in the definition, but the value judgment is what you associate with the term. Its funny that you just said that the Fi isnt in such a big role, but now you showed that you are automatically putting a value judgment on a objective term

You are acting just the way my intention was for using the term bitch originally. The reason why i thought about using the term bitch was to say objectively that she is acting like a female dog in heat(which is at least almost true, enough to be held as objective truth for Te), but also brings negative association with the term. And because it can be seen as objectively truth(Te), the negative association can be more easily be accepted as true aswell. And if he will associate the reasons for all this(/put the blame) on her, it will ease his pain more because the bitch is whos fault it is, not his(at least so much or completely his fault).

In modern usage, the term "bitch" has picked up so many connotations, for me it has become highly subjective. In fact, I rarely use terms like this, for this reason. I am more likey to call someone a liar, cheater, traitor, etc. since this just means "one who has _______" which is more cut and dried. We always apply value judgments. Te can evaluate the facts, but it is Fi that tells us what is important, whether a certain behavior, be it lying, cheating, or even our definition of "bitchiness" crosses the line for us.

[MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION] you could try saying something like this:

"she has some deep seated self-esteem issues and that perhaps having someone fall "in love" with her gives her some sense of self worth, so she acts like a bitch and its not your fault that she does that. I absolutely believe that you are justified in your decision to leave her and I know that you have contemplated it long and hard before reaching your decision to leave her, but in my opinion you should had left her if not the first time she cheated, but at least the second time."

I would stick to the highlighted.

I don't think anyone who let their dignity be degraded like that would be ready for logic. At least not until they acknowledged their anger and shame first. Once you're angry you have some sense of self to work from.

We may be different in this respect. For me, the highlighted is something I would have to work through alone, and I can usually see the logic, even for all that. In fact, it is part of what I would cling to in order to restore normalcy and some sense of control.

 

[Usehername]

We may be different in this respect. For me, the highlighted is something I would have to work through alone, and I can usually see the logic, even for all that. In fact, it is part of what I would cling to in order to restore normalcy and some sense of control.

Yeah, that may be gut v. head enneagram differences.

 

[Ene]

Hey guys, well, he hasn't brought it up to me anymore. Today we talked about the history of martial arts and we worked on perfecting some of my fighting forms, but I wanted to touch base with everyone who had given me their time and thoughts on this issue. I have decided to take bits and pieces from everyone's input and mostly, to just let him approach the subject again when he is ready. At this point, I think playing the role of "mentor" is really good for him. He enjoys building strategies probably more than anything, so we talked about strategies that we could teach to public school teachers to defend themselves and their students against attacks. He is a very analytical person and the more he is able to use this skill and engage in his expertise, the happier I think he is. He was excited that a ninja had come to see him and wants to train in our system and he was excited that he had been called in to train some police officers on certain issues. [he periodically trains SWAT teams and police officers.]