• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTJ] Why do people hate INTJs?

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
They seem to be viewed as narcissistic elitists by many people of other types (or perhaps even by some within their own type), and I'm wondering how accurate these perceptions really may be, or why people actually develop them to begin with.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
People tend to dislike the damage that can be wrought by a narcissistic elite, it just so happens that a lot of people who identify as INTJ are narcissistic elitists.

Not that this necessarily means that those people are correctly typed.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
People tend to dislike the damage that can be wrought by a narcissistic elite, it just so happens that a lot of people who identify as INTJ are narcissistic elitists.

Not that this necessarily means that those people are correctly typed.

Hmm, interesting... so which types might mistype as such (besides myself, and also I did the same for ISTP).
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Hmm, interesting... so which types might mistype as such (besides myself, and also I did the same for ISTP).

People mistype I don't think there is a precedent for a certain type as such, although others will probably disagree and I have heard things such as "INFP's are the most indecisive about their type".
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
They seem to be viewed as narcissistic elitists by many people of other types (or perhaps even by some within their own type), and I'm wondering how accurate these perceptions really may be, or why people actually develop them to begin with.

They are as accurate as they can be to each individual.

They are just what you said. Perceptions

I find the whole idea to be overplayed :rolleyes:

I don't see them as narcissists. Prolly cause I am one myself.

And so what if I like myself better than others????

People develop these perceptions because they are taking it personally for some reason.

An INTJ is probably the most willing to change their beliefs based on proper evidence...I would say that's the opposite of narcissism.

They may come off as full of themselves...because they actually know what the hell they're talking about, and are sure of it.

INTJ's are looking for self improvement all the time, unless they're an unhealthy INTJ.

That's my perception. :shrug:
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Ni's primary attribute is that of a priori knowledge.

There is no reasoning that can confict with a belief self-evident. It is a supremely annoying state of human existence.

You're off about the evidence thing, [MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]. That's Se's domain.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ni's primary attribute is that of a priori knowledge.

There is no reasoning that can confict with a belief self-evident. It is a supremely annoying state of human existence.

You're off about the evidence thing, [MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]. That's Se's domain.

Ha ha I get the gist you're not fond of a priori knowledge :wubbie: ?

Can you expand on the Se?
 

Ene

Active member
Joined
Aug 16, 2012
Messages
3,574
MBTI Type
iNfj
Enneagram
5w4
They seem to be viewed as narcissistic elitists by many people of other types (or perhaps even by some within their own type), and I'm wondering how accurate these perceptions really may be, or why people actually develop them to begin with.

One of my best friends, and I do mean a person in my inner circle, is and INTJ [in fact, he keeps texting my phone while I'm trying to type this], and I don't see him as a narcissistic elitist. I see a certain humility in him. He doesn't mince his words. He says what he means, means what he says and a lot of people are "put off" by that, but I like him for it. I know that's hard to explain, but he will admit when he doesn't know something and he will then set out to change that fact if it's something that he deems important. I admit that I don't know many INTJs but the ones I do know, I like.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Ha ha I get the gist you're not fond of a priori knowledge :wubbie: ?

Can you expand on the Se?

I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

The only real defense I could posit against it is that some anti-INTJ fringe group conducted poll fraud. I probably have good arguments for anything else that could be construed (yes, I think about it a lot).

Pardon my abstraction from most outlets of the theory, but Se and Ni are two theoretical poles against each other - the best analogous expression I've been able to come up with is that Se is environmental and Ni is egotistical. So while extraverted sensors look for external factors to evidence beliefs and reasoning, Ni types rely on their intuitive (re: unevidenced) perceptions of existence. You can see how Se types are primed for freshly rationalizing a situation while Ni types will be stuck in an ideological rut, running countercurrent to your prior statement.
 

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Similar to why people don't like ESTJs. As I understand it:

- ESTJs have the best sense of what is correct, until proven otherwise
- INTJs are the "smartest"*, until proven otherwise

IME that "default" sense is pretty common in both types -- and that can bother some people.


*an approximation; not exactly correct, I know, but I'm not an INTJ
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,429
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Depends on the INTJ. There are some that I think are awesome, and some that just kind of make me roll my eyes. Oh, and I like the OP... he doesn't actually make me roll his eyes, even if I can't always follow his introverted intuition, which I think is pretty strong.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

The only real defense I could posit against it is that some anti-INTJ fringe group conducted poll fraud. I probably have good arguments for anything else that could be construed (yes, I think about it a lot).

Pardon my abstraction from most outlets of the theory, but Se and Ni are two theoretical poles against each other - the best analogous expression I've been able to come up with is that Se is environmental and Ni is egotistical. So while extraverted sensors look for external factors to evidence beliefs and reasoning, Ni types rely on their intuitive (re: unevidenced) perceptions of existence. You can see how Se types are primed for freshly rationalizing a situation while Ni types will be stuck in an ideological rut, running countercurrent to your prior statement.

Hmmm. I don't disagreeing that going off of a prior knowlegde can seem egotistical to some.

The external data I was referring to was the Te that INTJ's have.

I pretty much agree with everything Ene said though.

Only because I know what it's like to want to improve yourself if something's important to you, and I have seen it happen in NTJ's. And done it.

Having a lack of Ti/Fe would probably be the reason they would be responsible for many transgressions though. Ti being able to have insight, and Fe caring about others as a way to care about themselves.

Any unhealthiness shown in type is mostly because the person's not incorporating their auxillary function in their lives as much as they should be.
 

anticlimatic

Permabanned
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
3,299
MBTI Type
INTP
Everything that's wrong with INTJs (some INTJs, not all-- maybe most, who knows-- either way depends on the person) comes from that goddamn tert Fi. Present an INTJ with information that doesn't quite line up with their Te worldview, and the tert Fi generator kicks in automatically to explode with so much self righteous indignation and sarcastic contempt that it feels like you just broke open a pinata full of thirteen year old girls. All that cold logic and reason and desire to better oneself goes completely out the window if whatever they are presented with contradicts one of their Fi values, regardless of how rationally constructed that value happens to be. This is where a lot of their perceived stereotypical narcissism comes from, and the biggest area of weakness in most INTJs, IMO.

The ones I know that are able to better deal with this aspect of their MBTI are solid individuals, though. They are a very thin minority, however. :thumbup:
 
W

WALMART

Guest
Hmmm. I don't disagreeing that going off of a prior knowlegde can seem egotistical to some.

I'm probably not using the right word, or at least, there's a better word for it. When I say "ego" I mean the psyche, so if it is "egotistical", its origins are from within - directly contrasted against origins supported by an environment. A priori reasoning has evidence withdrawn from the equation, therefore, introverted intuition is the purest theoretical form of ego regarding personality.

The external data I was referring to was the Te that INTJ's have.

The thing about this is that if you use your reasoning, almost every type will be at the very least equally capable in this regard, giving INTJ's no real advantage in terms of reconciling beliefs to existence. Even ISFP's would be better learners, with auxiliary Se (Se is better than Te, 'tis true, though they are notably similar in scope). Two exclusions might be xNxP's, with subjectively-oriented functions in both dom and aux slots, but I've only thought about that lightly.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Ni's primary attribute is that of a priori knowledge.

There is no reasoning that can confict with a belief self-evident. It is a supremely annoying state of human existence.

You're off about the evidence thing, [MENTION=14015]Inari Love[/MENTION]. That's Se's domain.

I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

The only real defense I could posit against it is that some anti-INTJ fringe group conducted poll fraud. I probably have good arguments for anything else that could be construed (yes, I think about it a lot).

Pardon my abstraction from most outlets of the theory, but Se and Ni are two theoretical poles against each other - the best analogous expression I've been able to come up with is that Se is environmental and Ni is egotistical. So while extraverted sensors look for external factors to evidence beliefs and reasoning, Ni types rely on their intuitive (re: unevidenced) perceptions of existence. You can see how Se types are primed for freshly rationalizing a situation while Ni types will be stuck in an ideological rut, running countercurrent to your prior statement.

Your thoughts on typology are getting dumber by the day.

I'm probably not using the right word, or at least, there's a better word for it. When I say "ego" I mean the psyche, so if it is "egotistical", its origins are from within - directly contrasted against origins supported by an environment. A priori reasoning has evidence withdrawn from the equation, therefore, introverted intuition is the purest theoretical form of ego regarding personality.

The thing about this is that if you use your reasoning, almost every type will be at the very least equally capable in this regard, giving INTJ's no real advantage in terms of reconciling beliefs to existence. Even ISFP's would be better learners, with auxiliary Se (Se is better than Te, 'tis true, though they are notably similar in scope). Two exclusions might be xNxP's, with subjectively-oriented functions in both dom and aux slots, but I've only thought about that lightly.

Apparently it doesn't really matter how much or how little you've thought about a thing.

The thinking is still garbage.
 
W

WALMART

Guest
[MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION]

My thoughts haven't changed in months. These are the same things I've been expressing for some time, perhaps you have simply had time to understand why you don't like it.
 
S

Society

Guest
People tend to dislike the damage that can be wrought by a narcissistic elite, it just so happens that a lot of people who identify as INTJ are narcissistic elitists.

Not that this necessarily means that those people are correctly typed.

assuming your talking in terms of narcissistic "egomaniac" character (which is not quite the same as NPD), i agree:

- superficially there's the more obvious element of ego that can lead to mistyping - give a narcissist a list of possible self portraits and have "mastermind" in that list, it's not going to be difficult to guess.

- as they go deeper into MBTI, a narcissist wouldn't necessarily be capable of easily telling the difference between what they learned once processing precedent information and their own insight into incoming information.

it's worth mentioning that a lot of INTJs that genuinely express Ni by any definition of it don't seem to exhibit this sort of character at all.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
[MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION]

My thoughts haven't changed in months. These are the same things I've been expressing for some time, perhaps you have simply had time to understand why you don't like it.

If he actually had the time to back up his statements, like he does when arguing with various other members, we could take his criticisms against your competence in Typology more seriously, but apparently, his ego says it isn't worth the effort. That's actually pretty good evidence in favor of why people might hate INTJs in relation to being narcissistic.

But still, this is only speculation on my part; whether or not that's how Zara really feels about this remains a mystery, at least until if and when he actually decides to elucidate what's "wrong" with your reasoning.
 
Top