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[INTP] Girls and women who have Asperger's syndrome

Entropic

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Perhaps the same thing that is stopping you from sharing your theories. I can go and read Jung whenever I want. I cannot learn from the perspectives of others so readily (the people I know IRL have no interest in related discussion).

She never asked and it was never the subject of discussion. I think I've laid out pretty well how I understand the theory, though, and I never directly quoted Jung and just linked to a page. I clearly provided my personal perspective of Jung.
You could start by explaining your own understanding and providing supporting references.

Well, I could then namedrop the people I derive much of my information from on Personality Cafe being JungyesMBTIno, Abraxas, LiquidLight among others. To go through the posts specifically were they happened to mention this or that to provide here would be cumbersome, but aside that I've also read snippets of Jung and Psychological Types can be read online on Wikisocion, I also derive information from Wikisocion, Lenore Thomson who is cited on 16types and I could go on.

I understand what Greenfairy means about the Ti approach to such discussions. There are a couple of Ti dom/aux hereabouts who like to snipe at the theories presented by other members without providing any real supporting evidence, and without presenting any theories of their own. That is their right, of course, but it makes for a rather lopsided and trying discussion. It is much easier to tear down than to construct.

She he always the right to ask me how I see things.
 

Entropic

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From what?

To explain how you see communication.

I don't see what I understand as Fi in you, but Fi is not a function I understand well, so I couldn't pinpoint what I'm looking for; since you type as Fi dominant, I'm curious as how you believe you manifest this. You can make up your own context, just an example or two would be good. What led you to type as INFP (with high Te hence the x I assume) rather than INTP or INTJ?

Because it's ego conscious. And no, people don't see Fi in me because I don't show it to other people generally speaking. My expression of it is also perhaps an abstraction that people aren't used seeing or understanding as Fi.
I have to disagree here; I think the emotion expresses is simply very subtle. Maybe this is what you mean. But I think it will always be present to some extent, as opposed to a thinking type, which would express the same emotional quality in a different way.

Thinkers can be very emotional and vice versa. I know an ExTJ who is very keen on expressing his inferior Fi but that it's inferior becomes apparent in situations where his values are questioned and he cannot provide a nuanced view. I never said there are no emotional cues, but feelers do not have exhibit them in order to be considered feelers and vice versa since ultimately it's about whether feeling as a judging preference is ego conscious or not. Pneumoceptor on Personality Cafe is for example a person I'd consider cold for an Fe type because she doesn't tend to really emote many of her feelings.
It would be entirely contextual. I think it was related to a post in which you questioned something I said, and I don't remember what it was, so I have no context; and quite frankly I don't feel like putting in the effort to find it. From the thread title though I'm sure it had to do with me making a claim of relationships between cognitive functions and mental states which could be classified as disorders, with which you disagreed. I meant something along the lines of this post for example:
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html

My understanding of the dominant-tertiary loop is that it exists, then it doesn't. I for example think that a person's ego can take on two introverted functions that are ego-conscious i.e. dominant and auxiliary and this could seem like a dominant-tertiary loop at first because the MBTI theory suggests that the auxiliary must be of opposite function attitude to the dominant although Jung makes no claims about this himself. Myers think the psyche cannot operate healthily without that push-pull between introversion-extroversion. In MBTI, the person who is say, NiTi would thus be in a dominant-tertiary loop and is in MBTI letter code, an INFJ instead of say, an INTJ. I personally don't agree with or think the former makes much sense since I think ego consciousness of functions should determine the letter used, not whether the function is introverted or extroverted in relation to the dominant, but anyway.

I think a person can function normally if the two ego conscious functions are introverted just fine, which I think is different to when a person starts relying on the inferior and another judgement function of the same attitude because they are already unhealthy so in a way I'd say, that's more inferior-auxiliary loop than dominant-tertiary, although you can also get stuck in auxiliary-tertiary feedback loops as I was this summer and unhealthy which essentially boiled down to revisiting a scenario that has happened and trying to figure out a new solution to it despite that it's already happened by asking myself the questions what if, maybe, possibly and so on. Then yes, I agree, it can lead to neurotic reasoning. Weak Ni with Ji can for instance lead to paranoia and conspiracy theorizing and why this doesn't happen in an individual whose top two functions would be say, NiFi is because they can tell when they are reading too much into things and when they aren't since their ego is oriented towards intuition and feeling.

So in a sense I don't think looping must be restricted to one function combination.

I also think as a whole based on what I've observed in people that NiJi is the most observable and detrimental "loops", although one could perhaps assume that certain Pe dominant types who has yet to develop an auxiliary can appear what is often understood as PeJe because they seem to have an inability to filter information in relation to themselves but only trust external sources to tell them who they are. I think this is rather a good example of unhealthy use of extroversion in general though and Pe more so than Je.

Similarly, a person's ego can be very stuck in their dominant perspective to the point where that too becomes neurotic and they react very strongly towards outside influence trying to disrupt this e.g. something triggers their inferior causing an eruption. I've seen this in a person who is an Si dominant but believes himself to be an INTP. Why I think my typing of him is right over his self-typing has to do with that he's grown blind to his own dominant function and I can tell that he's not intuitive or even enjoys intuition as a cognitive perspective because he reacted very strongly against my intuition which would have been very archetypal if Jung had typed this guy. In other words, he was probably in Jungian terms, one of the most stereotype Si dominants you could find.
It would be within the context of several posts. My experience is that I post something and then it gets nitpicked to death, people arguing against an extreme position I never took (like that having a characteristic means you have Aspergers, Te users can't form their own theories, such and such a person always does this, all NT's have social problems, etc), just basically dismissing it based on a straw man fallacy. There is a lot of saying I'm wrong without correspondingly saying what the other person actually believes is right. That's just my perception.
Well, you cannot base your reasoning on that NTs would as a whole have social problems without acknowledging that other types can experience social problems for a wide variety of problems, too, and it's not related to NT-ness but a lot of factors that make up human cognition and whether we are in fact deemed sociable or not. That in itself is a logical fallacy that perhaps is the most reminiscient of No True Scotsman.

You made this thread in the NT subforum. It implicitly leads to the assumption that you somehow feel there's a stronger correlation between NTs and Aspbergers, and if reading other posts in this thread, you also see this mentality kind of being perpetuated. INTPs with inferior Fe are more likely to be autistic just because their Fe is inferior. Again, that's not logically valid reasoning since as I already expressed, I don't think those with autism can first of all be properly typed in the MBTI system since their cognition operates differently to that of a "normal" person, and I think it also misunderstands the role of inferior Fe and how it plays in a Ti dominant's psyche. Not every NT is gong to be socially awkward as it highly depends on the rest of their psychological makeup, upbringing etc. Gender also probably plays a role and what kind of social behaviors are acceptable to begin with.

Because when I'm using a feeling function with Ti to back it up, I'm switching the hierarchy, which doesn't work that well. According to my understanding of theory. This is commonly agreed upon, as Coriolis pointed out. you might have a different opinion. I think functions which are lower in consciousness aren't so much dysfunctional when used, but rather primitive and immature when used consciously; lack of practice and differentiation means the person is less skilled with its conscious use.

How can one switch "hierarchy"? I think there's a difference between expressing that the unconsciousness is suddenly expressed and claiming that the functions would switch order of preference...? In the latter the unconscious is clearly still the unconscious, just that we suddenly became aware of it. As for the latter, in a sense, yes, although one could argue whether the unconscious functions can be used consciously since that would imply they are in fact at some level, conscious.
Sometimes this is true. But determining whether this is true and on what grounds is tricky business, if the "facts" are not scientific in nature, only theoretical.

That's when we have to rely on logical reasoning to argue for our case just like like in philosophy where much of what is being discussed/understood/researched/theorized isn't concretely tangible, either.
It's not the Ti which bothers me; I enjoy discussion and debate. I don't like when it's applied in places it doesn't belong, missing the big picture and completely neglecting the quality of human interaction. Which now that I think about it is a very F(e) thing to say. I think NTP's can be concerned about this though. Surely they find each other annoying at times, and most would consider it unhealthy and not preferable to ignore feeling related issues when they are relevant. Basically, I think debate should be respectful of the other's dignity and intelligence.

I think I have to disagree because if feeling is the function you suppress the most into the unconsciousness, which I think we can both agree on is true in a Ti dominant, why would they be concerned about expressing feeling or care about whether the emotional context? It's the very perspective they try to ignore.
Why do you? I think it has greater explanatory power, is more complete, and is easier to use because relies less on vague generalities. The more distinction the better.
If so, then why rely on certain MBTI stereotypes about how say, feelers and thinkers behave?

No, that would take too much time. I'd have to dig through a bunch of posts. Here's one which says just a little bit which is similar:
Also posts people have made which I thought made sense. Probably one by [MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION].
Well, I think Doctorjuice is often to the point but he misses contextual and theoretical depth in his videos, ergo the shortness of it. I in fact wrote an article about INTJ and INTP writing styles many months ago though, although in retrospect I think little of what I wrote has to do with actual NiTe and TiNe cognition as much of my understanding was built on MBTI theory rather than Jung.
 

unnamed

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The government don't like people thinking,they set high score of T's as a disease,a mental problem.Weak/without Fe are not easily control by mainstream media.
They like 2+2=5.
(F's)

“Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death.”-1984
 

unnamed

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Some people resent it as putting a label of "abnormalcy" on some aspect of human diversity, as if we considered left-handedness a "syndrome" because it occurs in a small minority of the population.

Some people claim to like a diagnosis because it reassures them that the things that make them different and sometimes cause problems are real - they are not imagining it. In this sense, they find it legitimizing, though no one should feel such need of external validation just to feel "legitimate" in their own skin.

Also, an official diagnosis often makes it possible to get services that otherwise would not be provided, or would be available only at prohibitive cost. This sometimes happens in schools, where a diagnosis of ADHD, or autism, or dyslexia, etc. will get a student targeted help, tutoring, or other accommodations. If a school is good about accommodating different learning styles and personalities to begin with, this shouldn't be necessary. As budgets get tighter and class sizes larger, and teachers given more administrative duties, there is less room for differentiation within the classroom, and a medical diagnosis can be the only way to get an exception, unfortunately.
New witch hunting,targeted children.

“Any attempt to deny a thoughtcrime is itself a thoughtcrime.”
 
E

Epiphany

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Saw this video circulating on Facebook. She doesn't have Asperger syndrome, but is autistic. It's amazing how mysterious and profound the human brain is.

 

louiesgonnadie

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I've had some difficulty typing myself during my brief period of interest in MBTI (lasted about 4 months) and then I saw that one post by INTP and was reminded of my aspergers dX when I was 4, hence that is probably the reason why it's been difficult, especially if my symptoms haven't been tamed (even though I was in denial about having it for a while, and I had one or two reasons to back it up - yet I've kind of come to terms with likely having it now) Shit, I guess there's another hint I probably have it. :(

Wow, this thread got off topic. I probably further derailed it. The video above was very interesting!
 
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WhoCares

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Did anyone else find the description of aspbergers to be so broad as to include anyone slightly different to the cookie cutter human? I mean seriously, a girl who doesn't like clothes and makeup, or who prefers to play with boys....sounds like every second person I grew up with. Why must every slight variance from what the non-thinking public considers 'normal' be labelled, documented and the subject of endless self-help books and groups. Far out.....this planet is bonkers! If you like escaping in nature or have pets you must be aspbergers....:doh:
 

greenfairy

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Did anyone else find the description of aspbergers to be so broad as to include anyone slightly different to the cookie cutter human? I mean seriously, a girl who doesn't like clothes and makeup, or who prefers to play with boys....sounds like every second person I grew up with. Why must every slight variance from what the non-thinking public considers 'normal' be labelled, documented and the subject of endless self-help books and groups. Far out.....this planet is bonkers! If you like escaping in nature or have pets you must be aspbergers....:doh:
I would agree if the article were describing symptoms of Asperger's, but it wasn't; it was describing characteristics of people who have it. This is quite different from diagnostic criteria.
 

jewelluckystar05

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That was interesting, I have ADHD and am prone to being highly sensitive to things like friction or dysfunction within a group, but not the social naivety because I've learned the difference between being nice to people who are different from myself and when someone is badmouthing others differences to make their own differences look more appealing to manipulate everyone into competing to be their new best friend. I like a lot of girly shows, books and movies, but I have the brain of a guy when it comes to things like thinking even a cartoon with really crude jokes would be better than a cartoon that makes me say wtf did I just watch, it doesn't even have any memorable villains but they got the evil part completely covered by the plot, animation style, or voices
 
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WhoCares

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I would agree if the article were describing symptoms of Asperger's, but it wasn't; it was describing characteristics of people who have it. This is quite different from diagnostic criteria.

In which case, women with asbergers are pretty much just like a lot of other people, not a lot to discuss here....:shock: i went online and found endless descriptions of Aspie women and guess what? I fit every single one of them. Yet have no real difficulties in getting about in society, living my life or otherwise functioning. So if I were an Aspie then I'd have to conclude that its no more difficult than being say blonde or brunette so why exactly do they need self-help groups, special education and lessons in social functioning? This world has gone crazy on the 'I'm a special little snowflake' theme, with people just lining up to be diagnosed with this and that just so they can claim their specialness. Humans are so narrow in their thinking that they label anyone with a slightly different set of priorities in life dysfunctional and then set about correcting that dysfunction with medication and counsellors willing to help you develop coping mechanisms. The next leap of choosing eye or hair colour as a dysfunction is really not very far away at the rate we are going.

I'm with the other poster who said it isn't a syndrome or dysfunction, its simply a point of difference in what should naturally be a really diverse species.
 

greenfairy

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In which case, women with asbergers are pretty much just like a lot of other people, not a lot to discuss here....:shock: i went online and found endless descriptions of Aspie women and guess what? I fit every single one of them. Yet have no real difficulties in getting about in society, living my life or otherwise functioning. So if I were an Aspie then I'd have to conclude that its no more difficult than being say blonde or brunette so why exactly do they need self-help groups, special education and lessons in social functioning? This world has gone crazy on the 'I'm a special little snowflake' theme, with people just lining up to be diagnosed with this and that just so they can claim their specialness. Humans are so narrow in their thinking that they label anyone with a slightly different set of priorities in life dysfunctional and then set about correcting that dysfunction with medication and counsellors willing to help you develop coping mechanisms. The next leap of choosing eye or hair colour as a dysfunction is really not very far away at the rate we are going.

I'm with the other poster who said it isn't a syndrome or dysfunction, its simply a point of difference in what should naturally be a really diverse species.
I don't really think it's a "disorder" or illness or something either, but it's a real condition which causes people difficulty; you just don't have whatever they have. And people who have difficulty doing things find it helpful to discuss their experiences with other people.
 

Ivy

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If you have no difficulties getting about in society, living your life, or otherwise functioning, and would not have benefited from self-help groups, special education, or lessons in social functioning, then it's highly unlikely you have what they have. But many people with Asperger's and autism agree with you that it should be considered a variation of humanity rather than something to be feared or eradicated- the movement is called "neurodiversity." Being diagnosed with autism or Asperger's or being a part of the system that helps those who are, does not mean believing the condition should be feared or eradicated. It's just a fact that society is not set up to accommodate neurodiversity, though. Awareness through labeling is one way people are attempting to change that.

(Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so if this has already been said, my bad.)
 

prplchknz

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I'm not dxed aspie or austistic, ie i'm not. But I do have troubles getting into society and social functioning, I was in special ed classes ect. and looking at me and talking to me, you think i'm you're average human just a little eccentrit but the point being that just because some one is high functioning of whatever they're dxed with doesn't mean that things that comes to neurotypical people comes easy to them. And I know I'm off, but I don't like when people down play things and think oh well if he/she does xyz than or why can't he/she just. it's not that simple. I don't think people with asperger's or autism are defective, I do agree that they just look at the world differently, and so do i, that's probably why i often relate to them better than the normies.

p.s. I'm relating it too myself, cuz i can't relate it to others.
 

Coriolis

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If you have no difficulties getting about in society, living your life, or otherwise functioning, and would not have benefited from self-help groups, special education, or lessons in social functioning, then it's highly unlikely you have what they have. But many people with Asperger's and autism agree with you that it should be considered a variation of humanity rather than something to be feared or eradicated- the movement is called "neurodiversity." Being diagnosed with autism or Asperger's or being a part of the system that helps those who are, does not mean believing the condition should be feared or eradicated. It's just a fact that society is not set up to accommodate neurodiversity, though. Awareness through labeling is one way people are attempting to change that.
Society was not set up to accommodate left-handed folks, either. Just consider the number of appliances, gadgets, even auditorium seating that assume right-handedness. Do the (granted, comparatively minor) problems lefties experience make left-handedness a disorder, or simply a normal if minority variation? At one time, parents and teachers tried to retrain lefties to use their right hand. Our attitude has shifted over time. Perhaps it will with autism/asbergers as well.
 

Ivy

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Maybe so- I'm not averse to that. But as things are now, kids with diagnoses have access to accommodations/help that kids without diagnoses don't have access to. And those accommodations can mean the difference between success and failure for a child who struggles in the current system.

A family I have worked for in the past (I was their nanny for many years) has a daughter who is extremely intelligent and almost surely has Asperger's/autism, as it is currently defined. She struggled needlessly in school with the same kind of stuff that my son has gotten help with. She could have benefitted from the same help.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I've read a bunch of stuff on women with aspergers. The only thing that ever confuses me is that they will claim that they are especially emotionally sensitive (to how they are being treated) but at the same time claim that they are not emotionally sensitive to others. How can you be both?
There are a couple of ways this could be interpreted. A person can be emotionally sensitive to self, but not others. A person can also be sensitive to authentic emotions in self and others, but be oblivious to social norms, artifice, and rituals of social expectations.

I related to a chunk of the info in the OP, but I don't think anyone I know would think I have Aspbergers. My inter- and intra-personal ways of relating are different from the norm, though. I have always founds social norms confusing, even when I can observe and describe them. The pressure associated with these creates a lot of stress in me, and I do cope by being very polite and responsible, so that I don't stand out. I am a lot more unusual than most people realize irl because I have some ways to cope and cover up what is different about the way I think and socialize.

I deal with several people with high functioning autism and Aspbergers and what makes me different from it is that I don't have sensory rigidity that most people with these issues demonstrate. What I do have are certain kinds of emotional hypersensitivity combined with obliviousness that I related to in the OP. My sensory relationship tends to be very fluid and flexible combined with a lack of awareness, except for sound. Sensory overstimulation does exhaust me, so I can feel sympathy in that regard.

In the emotional realm, I can relate to these issues because a lack of consistency can be quite upsetting, but I don't care nearly as much if sensory experiences change. I do have an unusual level of sensitivity to time and routine, although too much routine makes me feel oppressed. I can estimate time down to the actual minute in several instances. So in some ways I relate, but in others I can feel opposite to the descriptions in the OP and also of what I know about these issues.

I can also feel a rather intense empathy in one-on-one situation and so I could also internalize aspects of this because I spend a lot of hours with people who struggle with these issues. There is something different about my socialization based on either experience or my brain because I did not form friendships in the way most other people I observed did during their childhood and adolescence. I struggled terribly to relate to the "norm", so in some ways I feel like some sort of term to justify everything I went through might feel good, just because it would be an "explanation". Although there may be no such thing available. It's probably just individual issues.

To give a concrete example: When I was in my early teens and Madonna come out with "Material Girl", I was deeply into astronomy at the time and thought she was singing about a materialistic philosophy of reality, and I thought the song was interesting because of it. I thought she just meant that she was made of matter. I couldn't imagine it was about shopping. Just imagine how a junior high school girl like that might fit in with other junior high school girls. I also brought my astronomy books and rode my friend's bus home because I heard she liked astronomy, but she just sat in the seat behind me and giggled with her friend about boys the whole ride, so I was pretty sad. I think "nerdgirl" is a more accurate term for me at that point.

I also got really overwhelmed trying to teach a group of students because there were too many signals, so I adjusted my career to teach individually, and I also have gravitated towards special needs students because they are easier for me to understand than the "norm". Each person requires that I observe and reconstruct their communication and cognitive processing from the ground up instead of basing everything on shared assumptions. I am far more skilled at understanding a new system, than applying shared assumptions.

I teach a woman who has brain injury and Aspbergers, and she is highly conflict oriented and constantly fights in her life. She insults me at lessons on a regular basis, and this typically creates a build-up of tension with most people she interacts with which ends in a huge blow-up. She cannot maintain a relationship of any sort for very long. Because I can calibrate to unique inner systems of processing and communicating, I have been able to work with her for a few years, and I don't feel tension building up because I interact with her uniquely. This is actually an example of how I function outside the norm because most normal people cannot sustain interaction with her, but I feel pretty relaxed about it. I'm not sure what that means, and it probably has nothing to do with this topic, but it's late, and I guess I'm rambling a bit.
 

greenfairy

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[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION]: Interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. Somewhat unrelated, but I think your interacting uniquely with people probably comes from Ni+Fe- I have a sneaking suspicion Ni is much more oriented to individual systems and Ne wants to find commonalities among systems- hence Ne+Ti wants to find principles and apply generalities. I know that's the way I operate; I practically can't analyze something at all without connecting the ideas I get to other ideas and other systems.

What do you mean by sensory rigidity?
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION]: Interesting stuff, and thanks for sharing. Somewhat unrelated, but I think your interacting uniquely with people probably comes from Ni+Fe- I have a sneaking suspicion Ni is much more oriented to individual systems and Ne wants to find commonalities among systems- hence Ne+Ti wants to find principles and apply generalities. I know that's the way I operate; I practically can't analyze something at all without connecting the ideas I get to other ideas and other systems.

What do you mean by sensory rigidity?
The autism spectrum including Aspbergers has tremendous variety amongst individuals, but there is typically a hypersensitivity to sensory data and a resistance to changing anything in their environment. I will also give examples of the need for regular in the way time is ordered. This second aspect could be described as ritual, procedural. I'll give various examples:

The need to eat only prime numbers of beans
Becoming upset when a clock is changed in a room
Having a meltdown if a lesson goes one minute over its allotted time
Resisting putting in AC window units even when it gets really hot primarily because it involves change
Covering the ears and having a potential meltdown when hearing the sound of a piano
Requiring that the lights be kept dim
Needing to play every single song in their piano book at every lesson or else becoming agitated
Having an emotional meltdown when an appointment is cancelled
Needing to say the exact same phrases during the exact same time of day or during the same phase of a lesson


There is also a tendency for sensory data to map more completely and accurately on first experience. This could be described in some as a photographic memory, but there can be varying degrees of it. After this initial imprinting it can be difficult to alter the information. This is also related to why it is upsetting for change to occur in the outside world. I have noticed in some individuals a tendency to fixate on concrete details while being oblivious to other, sometimes more important details. Driving can be extremely stressful and difficult because of its unpredictability. I knew one for whom filling out forms created so much stress that it was avoided at great financial cost. I teach students with varying degrees of autism and have found that they require seeing a task modeled accurately right at first. If they start off doing it wrong, it is extremely difficult to change it, but if they see it correctly the first time, they will internalize that much more quickly than other students.
 

ummm

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l'd agree that the disorder can't be typed accurately.

That doesn't mean someone with it can't be typed, but they can type themselves without trying to type autism.

For example, in an INP type, those routines can be a way for the person to cope with the way they take in information. They aren't present for the same reasons they may be present in an ISTJ.

l'm not really making a related point here lol, l'm just trying to say that autism is a separate thing from any type. As NTs we aren't...''sort of autistic'' in the way l see it so casually implied on the interwebs.
 

ummm

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Imo aspergers isnt over presented in INTPs, i dont think you can even fit people with aspergers to MBTI type.

If you look at traits of people with aspergers usually have, they are extremely organized, need routines etc, which are J traits. Also they tend to be extremely sensitive to sensory stimulation, which hints at S. They also tend to live much in their own heads, which is a sign of introversion. On top of that, all cases which i have seen, read or watched videos of seem more like ISTJ, but heavily malfunctioning, so much that i really dont think you can even call them ISTJs, but are more like Si Ni Fi Te. The thing with aspergers is that they have few areas of the brains that have really strong connections to some other particular area and high activity on those, but have really weak connections and activity in most of the brains. This is why you cant really put functions in normal way and cant really make MBTI type out of them.

We have this middle aged woman with aspergers in this job i started last week and she seems most like an ESTJ with poorly developed Te. While being quite outgoing and talkative, she does these weird things like the other day we were taking a coffee break and she sat next to me and some other people were having a conversation on other table, she responded to what those other people said and was like part of the conversation, but to me it was clear that those other people didnt even notice her talking and she didnt seem to understand it, because it lasted for like 5 minutes :D

This is what l was getting at.

A person with behaviors that, when translated to MBTI become opposing perceiving functions that wouldn't fit in with the system.

l daresay that l think some autistic people are so highly N that they develop a coping method that resembles S, Si...or display what looks like Se as a result of their own inferior use of it.

But the point is that in typology these behaviors are seen for what they are literally and typed as functions. lf said person, perhaps an Ni dominant developed those behaviors, the Si traits would be seen first.
 
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