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[INTJ] Ask an INTJ

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I like you, Jeffster.

You aren't a moron. You understand things better than I do.


I hope you stick around MBTIc. Your perspectives are often fresh and enjoyable.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
:blush: Thanks Night. I don't usually feel like I understand much of anything, but I just try to add my voice to the mix, and maybe something good comes out of it. ;)
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Why are you so intent on convincing me you're right?

Why do you keep looking at me like I'm a moron?

No, wait, don't answer the second one. ;)

1) Because we think we are. We're right until proven otherwise. This 'convincing' is really us trying to get you to prove us wrong, to test our thoughts against the outside world.

2) We're not looking at you like you're a moron, we're looking at you like you're delicious. I guess it's easy to confuse the two.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w5
I have a question for you INTJ-holes: (joke) ;)

I understand that you guys are like, really deeply involved with your ideas about things, your constructs if you will, but why when confronted with contradictory, or counter information do you guys stay so, so, well, bull-headedly rigid?!?!?

At times like these you guys seem more uber-fanatical than that of being uber-rational.

This ENFP, me, loves herself some good solid discourse and debate. But arguing with some of you gives this girl, me, a headache, it's as if you JUST WON'T LISTEN, to any information that will or would lead you to have to deconstruct what has/had taken you so long to build.

*sighs*

Tenacious, the whole lot of you.

:)
 

Risen

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,185
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
I have a question for you INTJ-holes: (joke) ;)

I understand that you guys are like, really deeply involved with your ideas about things, your constructs if you will, but why when confronted with contradictory, or counter information do you guys stay so, so, well, bull-headedly rigid?!?!?

At times like these you guys seem more uber-fanatical than that of being uber-rational.

This ENFP, me, loves herself some good solid discourse and debate. But arguing with some of you gives this girl, me, a headache, it's as if you JUST WON'T LISTEN, to any information that will or would lead you to have to deconstruct what has/had taken you so long to build.

*sighs*

Tenacious, the whole lot of you.

:)

That, I believe, is a function of maturity and personal development (as in, some adults are not even mature on that aspect). both INTP's and INTJ's are generally thought to say things like... "Don't tell me I'm wrong when I know I'm right." My mother, whatever her type may be, is one such person. Words will not penetrate her skull if it requires her to change her perspective in any way.

However, the female INTJ that I often talk to is more mature in her ability to have a strong opinion or viewpoint, but also willing to reconstruct her thinking if she sees something new and better. I am also the same way. I have my own opinions on things that I think are right. If some other form of evidence or logic comes that turns the tables on what I think is true, then I will follow the truth. I have no attachment to what I THINK is true/right, or the constructs my mind has formed. I am willing to shape my image of the world according to what I sense to be true through systematic evidence, logic, and intuition. If there is an argument, I always seek the middle ground where beliefs are in common instead of "I am right and you are wrong" because I realize that doesn't yield anything positive if the other party isn't also willing to change their views. Despite that, the INTJ's can still be a stubborn lot ;).
 

Grayscale

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
1,965
MBTI Type
ISTP
how are you always right? it like, confuses me man


-clueless surfboarding dude
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
2) We're not looking at you like you're a moron, we're looking at you like you're delicious. I guess it's easy to confuse the two.

Funny.

This is exactly how I view some INTJs, too. ;)
 

MetalWounds

More human than human
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
678
MBTI Type
TP
Enneagram
9w8
Since this is the "Ask an INTJ" thread; I'm going to inquire as to why you classify yourself as a "5w8", Night.

As I understand it, the traditional enneagram syntax doesn't allow for such a classification.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
Good question.

The 5w8 is typically understood to be an impossible conclusion - the traditional Enneagram formula would have the individual discard the 8 in favor of his tertiary variable (for me, it would transform into a 5w6...).

Conversely, some believe that 8 is a natural extension of the 6; from "Defender" into "Leader", perhaps. The mechanics of this transition are fairly academic (and mostly outside the letter of the initial equation).

Therefore, the choice is one of personal fragrance - I find that 8 is closer to my approximate behavioral routine than 6. As such, it makes less sense to cater to historical routine, if said routine is less descriptive than is useful for me.
 

MetalWounds

More human than human
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
678
MBTI Type
TP
Enneagram
9w8
Good question.

The 5w8 is typically understood to be an impossible conclusion - the traditional Enneagram formula would have the individual discard the 8 in favor of his tertiary variable (for me, it would transform into a 5w6...).

Conversely, some believe that 8 is a natural extension of the 6; from "Defender" into "Leader", perhaps. The mechanics of this transition are fairly academic (and mostly outside the letter of the initial equation).

Therefore, the choice is one of personal fragrance - I find that 8 is closer to my approximate behavioral routine than 6. As such, it makes less sense to cater to historical routine, if said routine is less descriptive than is useful for me.

Interesting.

I've been thinking about INTJs and enneagram types recently. Most INTJs fall as 5s with 4 or 6 wings, however, there are quite a few that type as 8s. I'm trying to find some more information on this. Care to offer some thoughts?

I've noticed that the Enn. 8w7 archetype is much more accurate in relation to myself than is the traditional INTJ definition.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I've also encountered xNTJs with an 8w7 description. ENTJs are often the closest to this general sum. I remember you briefly typed yourself as an ENTP - is it possible you might be closer to an ENTJ?
(sidenote - I think the negative spin directed towards ENTJs is (mostly) without credible merit and - more often than not - plays to the insecurities of the aggressor moreso than the actualities of the ENTJ...).

htb is a good example of a well-balanced ENTJ.

This is the thread that cemented my belief in the 5w8 as my de facto Enneagram registration. Magic Poriferan has a sophisticated understanding of the Enneagram and was a great resource.
 

Tigerlily

unscannable
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
5,942
MBTI Type
TIGR
Enneagram
3w4
Dear INTJ's,

Are male INTJ's friendlier (and easier to get along with) than female INTJ's?
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
I don't know.

I've never met any female INTJs.

My best friend is an INTJ; he's great. Limey is an INTJ, too. I love Limey.
 

MetalWounds

More human than human
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
678
MBTI Type
TP
Enneagram
9w8
I've also encountered xNTJs with an 8w7 description. ENTJs are often the closest to this general sum. I remember you briefly typed yourself as an ENTP - is it possible you might be closer to an ENTJ?
(sidenote - I think the negative spin directed towards ENTJs is (mostly) without credible merit and - more often than not - plays to the insecurities of the aggressor moreso than the actualities of the ENTJ...).

htb is a good example of a well-balanced ENTJ.

This is the thread that cemented my belief in the 5w8 as my de facto Enneagram registration. Magic Poriferan has a sophisticated understanding of the Enneagram and was a great resource.

Well, I've considered it, but I don't really feel that "need to lead" that is so often described by every ENTJ profile, ever. There have been a few credible people before you that have suggested the possibility. Recently I had been living in a very unhealthy "loop". I hadn't any knowledge of the Enneagram at that time, but reading it now, describes my actions almost perfectly.

I actually just skimmed that thread and found some really pertinent information. That's what inspired me to inquire into your self classification. I took a couple tests. I scored almost dead even between 5 and 8, but my higher score as a 7 than either a 4 or a 6 made me an 8w7.

From what I gather, 5s and 8s are motivated by similar factors, a strong will for independence. I would like to find more information into the different types of INTJs. There are very clearly different "brands" of INTJs. I can tell, but I can't really put my finger on why.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
Well, I've considered it, but I don't really feel that "need to lead" that is so often described by every ENTJ profile, ever. There have been a few credible people before you that have suggested the possibility. Recently I had been living in a very unhealthy "loop". I hadn't any knowledge of the Enneagram at that time, but reading it now, describes my actions almost perfectly.

From what I gather, 5s and 8s are motivated by similar factors, a strong will for independence. I would like to find more information into the different types of INTJs. There are very clearly different "brands" of INTJs. I can tell, but I can't really put my finger on why.

I can identify with not wanting to lead.

I dislike the idea of people following me; feels like they've taken an easier route to (artificial) self-examination. It isn't even like I've any greater handle on reality anyway - nor would I expect anyone to presume that their personal conception offers any level of heightened legitimacy beyond what works for them.

I'm not sure what crafts variations in the INTJ manifold. Some of us are pithy and self-righteous. Others are educated and humble. Like all types, the global description probably offers only a sliver of truth into the realities that connect us to other, fundamentally, like-minded peoples.

Is there anything specific that you've (or others) noticed, in terms of oddly-shaped INTJs?
 

MetalWounds

More human than human
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
678
MBTI Type
TP
Enneagram
9w8
I'm not sure what crafts variations in the INTJ manifold. Some of us are pithy and self-righteous. Others are educated and humble. Like all types, the global description probably offers only a sliver of truth into the realities that connect us to other, fundamentally, like-minded peoples.

Is there anything specific that you've (or others) noticed, in terms of oddly-shaped INTJs?

Until very recently, I haven't really been putting a lot of time into thinking about it. I've noticed that there are INTJs that I can relate to and identify with, and then there are those who might as well be completely a foreign type. I think a lot of the differences are probably a result of different levels of Fi use. I've always wondered why fellow INTJs seldom enjoy each others' company.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
1) Because we think we are. We're right until proven otherwise. This 'convincing' is really us trying to get you to prove us wrong, to test our thoughts against the outside world.

Yeah, I pretty much get that, but usually I'll be the one who says it's okay for us to have different views on the subject, but INTJ is like "no, those other views are misinformed" like he just can't possibly accept that there could be different conclusions based on the same stuff.

2) We're not looking at you like you're a moron, we're looking at you like you're delicious. I guess it's easy to confuse the two.

Ah, okay, well, that makes sense. ;)

I think actually the look I get most often from INTJ's is more of a dumbfounded smile. There's one at work that likes to go on anti-Bush diatribes, and I'll sometimes interject something like "yeah, but you're overlooking President Bush's rockin' fun coolie-ness." And he'll give me that look like "I've just been hit with a grenade filled with confetti and all I can do is sit here and bask in the colorful pieces." :D
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
Yeah, I pretty much get that, but usually I'll be the one who says it's okay for us to have different views on the subject, but INTJ is like "no, those other views are misinformed" like he just can't possibly accept that there could be different conclusions based on the same stuff.



Ah, okay, well, that makes sense. ;)

I think actually the look I get most often from INTJ's is more of a dumbfounded smile. There's one at work that likes to go on anti-Bush diatribes, and I'll sometimes interject something like "yeah, but you're overlooking President Bush's rockin' fun coolie-ness." And he'll give me that look like "I've just been hit with a grenade filled with confetti and all I can do is sit here and bask in the colorful pieces." :D

This could be a thread unto itself. Suffice to say I can relate to your experiences.
 

DigitalMethod

Content. Content?
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
970
MBTI Type
INTJ
Yeah, I pretty much get that, but usually I'll be the one who says it's okay for us to have different views on the subject, but INTJ is like "no, those other views are misinformed" like he just can't possibly accept that there could be different conclusions based on the same stuff.

Then to that INTJ your view is illogical...
 
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