• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTJ] Ask an INTJ

Daedalus

New member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
185
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
Ni obviously does not operate in a vacuum. As I mentioned, it is influenced by all my experiences, everything I have learned, observed, or understood. This includes not only previous ideas, but other ideas suggested by those ideas, later versions of those ideas, evolving interpretations, etc. Yes, change is large part of what Ni perceives, but the focus is on how it all comes together in the present: how the convolution of all relevant changes leads to the existing situation, and more importantly, to the future. It is a bit like taking a derivative, where we measure not the value of some property at a specific point in time, but rather how that property is changing at that moment. Another way to look at it is to contrast Ne's view of current external ideas with Ni's view of current internal ideas.


On Edit : moved the reply to a new thread

How does Ni work? some thoughts
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56398&p=1882297#post1882297
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You, my dear, ask the best questions in this thread.

Let's just hope the response to this one doesn't get lost to the ether...

How does inferior Se manifest in INTJs?

Inferior Se manifests in many different ways. Some of which I'm aware of:

  • Compulsive need for sensory stimuli when stressed. When I'm stressed, I feel the need to take a hot shower. Many people might say a similar thing, but I doubt it manifests as consistently, strongly, and compulsively as it does in me. I will take a hot shower, get out, and then want to get right back in. I don't want it to stop. As long as I'm feeling soothing hot water rolling over my head, I'm not trippin about whatever's going on. Often times it actually allows me to look at the matter in a clearer light, clear my head, get back into a more productive zone. (A similar thing might happen with sex or masturbation, depending on what's easy/available at the moment. This isn't as consistent as the shower thing, though.) (Other INTJs, I believe, might also report something similar with substance use, whether alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs. This has never been much of an issue for me. I [have] use[d] all these things in moderation, at some time in my life, but have never had much of a compulsive use or abuse problem. I've seen, though, that INTJs are the third most likely type to get help for a substance abuse problem.)

  • A high sensitivity to unpleasing sensory phenomena., whether a sight, sound, a smell, a taste, a temperature, a texture, a position, having someone touch me, etc. This one can be pretty bad, cuz it's highly uncontrollable, can rear its head in relationship situations, wherein the other person is trying to cuddle, or is touching me in a certain way, or a number of other things, and, I dunno, I can have just a really visceral reaction caused by frustration over the other person not realizing how uncomfortable/displeased they're making me. It's not uniform, either; something that I'll enjoy at one time will be something that will bother me at another. There's something disgustingly immature, imo, about expecting the other person to realize the discomfort they're causing you, but, at the same time, part of me says that the person should be attuned to such a thing. The thing is, then my rational brain kicks back in and recognizes how absurd it is to expect the other person to always "just know". I'd say this is one of the uglier manifestations of it.

  • Information addiction.

  • Unusual/inordinate attention to details. This one is well-covered in Naomi Quenk's

  • Pervasive sexuality. I'm kind of just generally a hornball. It's like part of me will always be a 23-yr old SP. My ENFP ex used to get pretty annoyed when we would walk around a video store and I'd always stop and check out (every single one of) the C-rated boob flicks. With Se in the demonic position, I don't think she appreciated my conundrum. I can't really help myself. If the cover is enticing, I'm gunna pick it up, look at the back to see if there's any more eye candy, and there's really no two ways about it. I don't see anything wrong with it either. These are my urges. Why the fuck should you care? Sexually, this manifests as a willingness to explore, which is probably why INTJs have a reputation for being phreaks in the bed.

  • INTJs' oft-noted obsession with anime. Anything else explain this oddity?
Are you aware of accessing it in the moment, or with later reflection?

Well, I mean, first off, does one have to know what Se/inferior Se is in order to be aware of accessing it?

I've always been aware of the above-mentioned attributes to some degree, and recognized them as being due to something inside me, and I'd say I've steadily become more aware of it over time. Some people who I'm close to, throughout my life, have commented on my... uhm... strong sexuality. I'm not sure if it's because I'm an sx dom, or inferior Se, or both, or what, but I would lay at least some of the blame on the Se. Even if it's our 4th function, it's kinda always there, subconsciously, underlying everything.

I'd say, now, with a strong theoretical backing in typology, I'm pretty aware of it most of the time. That doesn't mean I necessarily do or can do anything about it. Frankly, I like those C-rated boob flick covers (I mean, it's not like I've ever actually rented one or anything [I'm not a frickin SP]); I like taking showers when I'm stressed; rubbing one out or fucking my girlfriend can be a great stress reliever; and, well, I like (good) anime). I do want to be able to handle displeasing sensory phenomena better. I try to, and I succeed to some extent, but I don't find my current type/level of response acceptable.

Do you see yourself using it in a negative, immature way?

I think I've already covered this.

***

I'm kinda done with my first crack at this.

Ima keep adding to the above over the next few days.

Feel free to ask follow-up questions; I'm pretty sure I've got more to say about it.

What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together. So, Se, provides the data to the Ni function or something like that. But it's our inferior function. So, it's not very good. We don't use it consciously or barely. :shrug:
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Do you INTJs want to kill all the INTPs?
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together.

The following comments are from Dario Nardi:

"Jung described how the functions exist in dynamic function, and as we mature, especially at midlife, we may integrate opposite functions. Someone who prefers Ni, may be initially closed to using Se, finding it unpleasant, difficult, and unrewarding. This would result in one-sided behavior in many situations. "

"Jung believed that psychological dysfunction would result without the compensating balance of one's opposite function, and that this compensation happened naturally."


This is an old post with examples of the opposing cognitive processes working in tandem:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29555&p=1129873&viewfull=1#post1129873

The link at the bottom of that post no longer points to the correct page, but the source was Dario Nardi.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
What I wonder - and I seriously don't know the answer to this - is what inferior Se is like when it's not acting up. They say Ni is paired with Se - they are dual functions and they work together. So, Se, provides the data to the Ni function or something like that. But it's our inferior function. So, it's not very good. We don't use it consciously or barely. :shrug:
I won't claim to have a definitive answer, but I can describe how I use Se rather consciously and to good effect. First, as a scientist and an experimentalist, observations are my daily bread. Everything I do rests on (lots of) accurate observations of tangible, real-world events. To some degree, then, I have had to train myself to handle this type of information. It is a learned skill, and I can use my much more comfortable Te to check whether I am doing it right. Second, I use Se in a number of my hobbies, principally music. There is a Fi-Se connection in playing the notes, hearing the notes, and feeling what it says to me. This, too, is a learned skill to large degree, though the Se-component is just one part. (It is interesting that when I perform, one of the greatest dangers is that my mind will wander in the middle of a piece, due to all the things I start thinking about once I get into it. I really have to focus on the moment.) I suppose Se is part of aesthetic appreciation of anything tangible.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The following comments are from Dario Nardi:

"Jung described how the functions exist in dynamic function, and as we mature, especially at midlife, we may integrate opposite functions. Someone who prefers Ni, may be initially closed to using Se, finding it unpleasant, difficult, and unrewarding. This would result in one-sided behavior in many situations. "

"Jung believed that psychological dysfunction would result without the compensating balance of one's opposite function, and that this compensation happened naturally."


This is an old post with examples of the opposing cognitive processes working in tandem:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29555&p=1129873&viewfull=1#post1129873

The link at the bottom of that post no longer points to the correct page, but the source was Dario Nardi.

I had forgotten about that post you made. I actually actually have Nardi's book. It was a bit hard to find (out of print). Will have to go back and read it again - or the parts that I skimmed over :).


I won't claim to have a definitive answer, but I can describe how I use Se rather consciously and to good effect. First, as a scientist and an experimentalist, observations are my daily bread. Everything I do rests on (lots of) accurate observations of tangible, real-world events. To some degree, then, I have had to train myself to handle this type of information. It is a learned skill, and I can use my much more comfortable Te to check whether I am doing it right. Second, I use Se in a number of my hobbies, principally music. There is a Fi-Se connection in playing the notes, hearing the notes, and feeling what it says to me. This, too, is a learned skill to large degree, though the Se-component is just one part. (It is interesting that when I perform, one of the greatest dangers is that my mind will wander in the middle of a piece, due to all the things I start thinking about once I get into it. I really have to focus on the moment.) I suppose Se is part of aesthetic appreciation of anything tangible.

Interesting. Thanks for explaining that. I think I just don't understand Se as well as some of the other functions. Will have to revisit. Discerning how much of the data gathering is Se related (or isn't) is what I get confused about.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Interesting. Thanks for explaining that. I think I just don't understand Se as well as some of the other functions. Will have to revisit. Discerning how much of the data gathering is Se related (or isn't) is what I get confused about.
This view may be simplistic, but I consider Se to relate to the direct and immediate input from my 5 senses, including any physical sensations (I'm cold, have a headache, etc.), and even emotions. I can analyze emotions, act on them, ignore them, etc. but the in-the-moment sensation of excitement, sadness, anger, whatever I see as part of Se.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This view may be simplistic, but I consider Se to relate to the direct and immediate input from my 5 senses, including any physical sensations (I'm cold, have a headache, etc.), and even emotions. I can analyze emotions, act on them, ignore them, etc. but the in-the-moment sensation of excitement, sadness, anger, whatever I see as part of Se.

But then everyone would use that function (perhaps equally) which seems contrary to the theory.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
But then everyone would use that function (perhaps equally) which seems contrary to the theory.
I'm not sure everyone doesn't. Se especially is hard to avoid, since we all take in information this way all day, every day. How well we attend to, integrate and handle it is another matter and will vary significantly by type. To consider the alternative, though, how would someone handle physical sensations like touch, taste, sounds, pain, etc. without using Se?
 

Mia.

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
821
But then everyone would use that function (perhaps equally) which seems contrary to the theory.

:huh:

Bro, have you heard the term sensotard? We Ne users have to concentrate much harder on utilizing and paying attention to the signals of Se... if we're on autopilot ... it gets awkwardly hilarious. Thankfully for me, I'm also an sx 9 which lends an earthy, sensual quality.... so I have something else serving in a compensatory way.... and Ne is my aux..... but still....
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Have any of you ever dated an INFJ? If so, what was that like?

I may have, but it was ~10 yrs ago, long before I started studying typology, and I haven't really seen her much since, so I can't be sure. There was something of what I would expect if I were to date an INFJ. My most vivid memories of the relationship were incredible morning makeout sessions in the bright Berkeley light as I was leaving her place. I've had my fair share of great makeout sessions, and every girl I've kissed has always had her own style, but with this one, there was something magical, mystical, mythical. We definitely seemed to connect on some extremely deep internal level, and we would just stand their in the morning light, making out like, well, I guess we were teenagers, but I've never had a kiss where the entire world dissolved quite so much and you felt like you were literally wrapped within the other person's soul. It was like we were two mythic characters experiencing an intended moment together. I dunno, that's kinda what I'd expect in a relationship with an INFJ. I'd also expect us to be weird, though. Really frickin weird. Can you imagine how out of this/in their own world an INTJ-INFJ couple must be?
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
INTJs, what are your opinions on other types that use Ni as an auxiliary or tertiary function but are not Ni dominant, such as ENxJs or ISxPs?
 

Daedalus

New member
Joined
May 16, 2010
Messages
185
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
Have any of you ever dated an INFJ? If so, what was that like?

I have. I had an INFJ girlfriend for four years. This was before I knew about typology, but cos i knew her very well, the moment I read about different MBTI types I knew without a shade of doubt that she was an INFJ (even though we had broke up by that time).

To be frank , that was the most meaningful relationship I had been so far (we broke up a few years ago). Both of us are dominant Ni users (INFJ/INTJ) so it feels as if we can really understand what the other is saying..in a deeper level. However it also leads to some serious communication issues(which actually resulted in the breakup)

The Dom for INTJ/INFJ is Ni
The Auxiliary for INTJ is Te and the Auxiliary for INFJ is Fe

This is where most issues arise. INTJ's even though very loyal in a relationship, suck at showing affection in (what they consider to be) "worldly" ways. INFJ needs confirmation that the INTJ still loves her, often. Usually INTJ's do not pick up on this because they go by "I did say that I love her, and nothing changed, so I do not have to keep on reaffirming that". (INTJ's Fi probably plays a part in this ).INFJ on the other hand is probably panicking because the INTJ has not said "I love you" often to her after saying it for the first time. The INFJ probably thinks the INTJ is not that really into her anymore...and starts looking for "signs" to back this up. The INTJ, who sucks are picking up feelings in others continues oblivious.

INTJ's also do not like to receive praise/thanks. It makes them uncomfortable. So often enough the INTJ would go ahead and make huge changes to his schedule/plans just so he can accommodate the wishes/plans of his INFJ partner.Yet he will try to hide the extreme lengths he had gone to make her wishes come true, and brushes it all under the carpet by saying something like "oh it was nothing, I didn't have to make any changes to to my plans, so no thanks needed" when the INFJ thanks him for his help.The INFJ then assumes that maybe he merely helped cos it was no big deal. Later on, when INFJ/INTJ misunderstandings arise, the INTJ might think that the INFJ never really appreciated all the help he did, even though he made a lot of sacrifices for her. But the fault also lies with the INTJ because, due to his aversion to receive thanks from people, he was the one who made it sound as it was no big deal(often by simply hiding his sacrifices on her behalf from her entirely)this might result in misunderstanding and breakup...and both share the blame(if it could be called blame) for it.

However, now that I know about typology, I believe that I am more prepared to deal with similar situations in the future. Of all the girls I've met, INFJ's are the one's I feel some instinctual attraction to....It is as if I see something of me in them, and them in me. This something is most probably Ni.


I've had my fair share of great makeout sessions, and every girl I've kissed has always had her own style, but with this one, there was something magical, mystical, mythical. We definitely seemed to connect on some extremely deep internal level, and we would just stand their in the morning light, making out like, well, I guess we were teenagers, but I've never had a kiss where the entire world dissolved quite so much and you felt like you were literally wrapped within the other person's soul. It was like we were two mythic characters experiencing an intended moment together. I dunno, that's kinda what I'd expect in a relationship with an INFJ. I'd also expect us to be weird, though. Really frickin weird. Can you imagine how out of this/in their own world an INTJ-INFJ couple must be?

WoW I only read your post after replying to the same question and I totally second this. You have explained it in much greater detail than I could have, but yes..there is no substituting the INFJ-INTJ experience in my books either.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
How do the instinct stacking affect your INTJ-ness?
Short answer: both sp/sx stacking and type 5 reinforce many of the usual INTJ attributes. This includes things like detachment, privacy, preference for solitude, contingency planning to anticipate possible problems; but also the desire to connect deeply with at least one or two people (Fi expression?).
 
Top