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[INTJ] Ask an INTJ

A

Anew Leaf

Guest
I have a good friend who is an INTJ and he's 22. He's been extremely depressed and down about himself for awhile now. He does well academically but strikes out in the land of personal interactions. I've done my best to try and pep him up with positive talk but he always shoots it down. (I do my best to make sure what I say isn't hyperbolic and is based in reality, but I get the whole Fi thing where if one doesn't currently believe something, no one else is going to convince me of it.). He's going off to graduate school soon, which I have suggested will be a much better place for him to fit in. He is unconvinced of this as well.

What I would like to know, is there anything else I can do to help him out besides what I have been doing? Based on what he confides in me, I know he trusts me implicitly, which I realize is a huge deal. I just don't want him to talk himself out of confidence in himself and his abilities.

Thanks for listening to me ramble ^_^. Here is a math equation as thanks! 2+3=bunnies!
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
A couple of questions:

1) What are your feelings on the paranormal/supernatural? Do you think its all nonsense, or is there some types of phenomena you give credence to?

2) Is there any area in your life where you are particularly prone to impulsive decision-making?

3) If you loved someone, what could they do to truly disappoint you? What would make you terminate a significant relationship?

4) Apples or oranges?

5) Liz Taylor or Marilyn Monroe?

1) Not enough hard evidence to cause me to believe there isn't a natural explanation.
2) Hmmm. Not usually.
3) Betrayal of trust. It takes a great deal for me to trust a person at all. I suggest not fucking with that if they want to remain close to me.
4) Apples for eating, orange for juicing.
5) They both seemed too high maintenance for me but on looks alone, Liz wins.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
A couple of questions:

1) What are your feelings on the paranormal/supernatural? Do you think its all nonsense, or is there some types of phenomena you give credence to?

2) Is there any area in your life where you are particularly prone to impulsive decision-making?

3) If you loved someone, what could they do to truly disappoint you? What would make you terminate a significant relationship?

4) Apples or oranges?

5) Liz Taylor or Marilyn Monroe?


1. For me there is only natural. But that does not mean that natural cant be abstract.


2. I score 100% J for a reason.


3. I was never in love.


4. Both.


5. Does not compute.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Gee, Nicodemus - I could have written that myself, except for 5. I'd pick "neither" with Greta Garbo as a write-in.

Ahh. Gosh. This is awkward, but the correct unwritten third option to this question was Sophia Loren. Thanks for playing, tho. :harhar:
 

InvisibleJim

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 19, 2009
Messages
2,387
I have a good friend who is an INTJ and he's 22. He's been extremely depressed and down about himself for awhile now. He does well academically but strikes out in the land of personal interactions. I've done my best to try and pep him up with positive talk but he always shoots it down. (I do my best to make sure what I say isn't hyperbolic and is based in reality, but I get the whole Fi thing where if one doesn't currently believe something, no one else is going to convince me of it.). He's going off to graduate school soon, which I have suggested will be a much better place for him to fit in. He is unconvinced of this as well.

What I would like to know, is there anything else I can do to help him out besides what I have been doing? Based on what he confides in me, I know he trusts me implicitly, which I realize is a huge deal. I just don't want him to talk himself out of confidence in himself and his abilities.

I'm going to bamboozle you.

You can't fill up an already overflowing glass, which is the problem with unhappy perceiver types.

However, judging types are infact merely half full glasses.

You need to fill up the other half with something worthwhile and people 'empathise' and 'humanise' the simple information they gain from their environment by bouncing a reflection of their internal self against it.

What you are seeing is negative half full. Fill it up with achievement, not people.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
I'm going to bamboozle you.

You can't fill up an already overflowing glass, which is the problem with unhappy perceiver types.

However, judging types are infact merely half full glasses.

You need to fill up the other half with something worthwhile and people 'empathise' and 'humanise' the simple information they gain from their environment by bouncing a reflection of their internal self against it.

What you are seeing is negative half full. Fill it up with achievement, not people.

Interesting. I brought up mbti with him this weekend, and it turns out his grad program had him take the test recently. So now he's been researching INTJs and what careers they enjoy, and what they like in a job. He's going for med school on the researcher side so I think he will be in a place filled with more NTs than he may care to have. ;)

When I talk to him I will make sure to focus more on what he has achieved than some ephemeral future possibility of achievement.

Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)

P.s. Thanks for the response Jim!
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
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8w9
Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)

We have to consider everything and (for me anyway) I need to look at worst case scenarios. Believe me I hear it all the time from my ENFJ. Why do you have to see the negative? Don't be a Debbie Downer. I tell him after awhile...if you want me running around sprinkling glitter on everyone and pissing unicorn wonderfullness you're just going to have to find a new best friend.
 

InvisibleJim

Permabanned
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Messages
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Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)

Question: why are other types unrealistically optimistic?
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
We have to consider everything and (for me anyway) I need to look at worst case scenarios. Believe me I hear it all the time from my ENFJ. Why do you have to see the negative? Don't be a Debbie Downer. I tell him after awhile...if you want me running around sprinkling glitter on everyone and pissing unicorn wonderfullness you're just going to have to find a new best friend.

Well, that makes sense. I guess it's good that someone is thinking of these things and is mentally prepared. :) I notice a similar dynamic with my INTJ/ENTP friends. They are parents now and she's a nurse and is always outlining why he can't do x or y with the kids. He complains she over thinks things and then she gets upset that he is questioning her abilities.

Does it bother you at all that you are the one thinking of these things? (ie, do you think your husband should do this too?)
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
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15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
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Well, that makes sense. I guess it's good that someone is thinking of these things and is mentally prepared. :) I notice a similar dynamic with my INTJ/ENTP friends. They are parents now and she's a nurse and is always outlining why he can't do x or y with the kids. He complains she over thinks things and then she gets upset that he is questioning her abilities.

Does it bother you at all that you are the one thinking of these things? (ie, do you think your husband should do this too?)

Oh no not at all. If both of us were thinking the same way, THAT would be bad. You need balance. I don't always voice what I'm thinking, I do make any reservations or concerns known if I feel it's needed. Like parenting, I don't question rules he's enforced with the kids. If dad said you can't...I have to back him on that. I might express my feelings in private but never in front of the kids. I have to trust his decision making ability and I do.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
Oh no not at all. If both of us were thinking the same way, THAT would be bad. You need balance. I don't always voice what I'm thinking, I do make any reservations or concerns known if I feel it's needed. Like parenting, I don't question rules he's enforced with the kids. If dad said you can't...I have to back him on that. I might express my feelings in private but never in front of the kids. I have to trust his decision making ability and I do.

Great answer :). You're one of my favorites on the forum to read, ceecee. :) a great mix of pragmatism, peppered with hilarious wit when you choose to show it. Also, it's so nice to read about how much you love your husband. :)
 

ceecee

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INTJ
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Great answer :). You're one of my favorites on the forum to read, ceecee. :) a great mix of pragmatism, peppered with hilarious wit when you choose to show it. Also, it's so nice to read about how much you love your husband. :)


Well, thank you. What a nice thing to say. :hug:
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Interesting. I brought up mbti with him this weekend, and it turns out his grad program had him take the test recently. So now he's been researching INTJs and what careers they enjoy, and what they like in a job. He's going for med school on the researcher side so I think he will be in a place filled with more NTs than he may care to have. ;)

When I talk to him I will make sure to focus more on what he has achieved than some ephemeral future possibility of achievement.

Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)
When I read your original question, I had a similar thought. Get him to focus not so much on what he has achieved - that is old history now - but rather what he will achieve, short and long term. With grad school on the horizon and clear career goals, that should be easy. It is very hard for relationships (or lack thereof) to trump professional, intellectual, or other creative accomplishment for an INTJ. This can be a weakness when we are trying to start or maintain a relationship, but in your friend's case, it is a strength. When I have gone through periods of depression due to personal or relationship troubles, my professional life has kept me focused and grounded.

As for your other question, INTJs aren't pessimistic, we are realistic. We do not wear the rose colored glasses so many others do. Our intuition shows us how much better things can be sometimes, but we are under no illusions that that is how they really are. The difference is what we need to work on. A butterfly, or glitter, or an interesting-shaped cloud are not going to solve the very real problems in the world, globally, locally, or individually; and if we allow them to distract us, or heaven forbid, lull us into some false sense of reality, then those problems are that much further from solution.
 
A

Anew Leaf

Guest
When I read your original question, I had a similar thought. Get him to focus not so much on what he has achieved - that is old history now - but rather what he will achieve, short and long term. With grad school on the horizon and clear career goals, that should be easy. It is very hard for relationships (or lack thereof) to trump professional, intellectual, or other creative accomplishment for an INTJ. This can be a weakness when we are trying to start or maintain a relationship, but in your friend's case, it is a strength. When I have gone through periods of depression due to personal or relationship troubles, my professional life has kept me focused and grounded.

As for your other question, INTJs aren't pessimistic, we are realistic. We do not wear the rose colored glasses so many others do. Our intuition shows us how much better things can be sometimes, but we are under no illusions that that is how they really are. The difference is what we need to work on. A butterfly, or glitter, or an interesting-shaped cloud are not going to solve the very real problems in the world, globally, locally, or individually; and if we allow them to distract us, or heaven forbid, lull us into some false sense of reality, then those problems are that much further from solution.

Thank you for clarifying. I misunderstood the original post in thinking I should focus on past achievements rather than future. I will say that when I do encourage him in his future endeavors he responds with "nothing is certain, not even my success." I have learned not to argue with that kind of thinking. ;)

I understand the need for realism, but is it realistic to always be looking at everything that can go wrong? I am not silly enough to believe that butterflies and glitter will solve the world's problems... but they can give the mind a mini-break from the harshness of life.

I think you guys need a mini NF fairy to keep in your pocket to give you hugs or something so that you have these moments of silliness in between the seriousness of life.

Is realism optimistic or pessimistic?! :eek:

The correct answer is probably "it is neither, it is neutral." (Sigh, this is why I like INTPs more than INTJs.)

So, do you believe that optimism is always unrealistic, or is it possible that both optimism and realism can coexist in the same plane together at least some of the time?

Hmm, this may be time for a Venn Diagram! :D
 
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