Ask an INTJ

[InvisibleJim]

Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)

Question: why are other types unrealistically optimistic?

[Anew Leaf]

We have to consider everything and (for me anyway) I need to look at worst case scenarios. Believe me I hear it all the time from my ENFJ. Why do you have to see the negative? Don't be a Debbie Downer. I tell him after awhile...if you want me running around sprinkling glitter on everyone and pissing unicorn wonderfullness you're just going to have to find a new best friend.

Well, that makes sense. I guess it's good that someone is thinking of these things and is mentally prepared. I notice a similar dynamic with my INTJ/ENTP friends. They are parents now and she's a nurse and is always outlining why he can't do x or y with the kids. He complains she over thinks things and then she gets upset that he is questioning her abilities.

Does it bother you at all that you are the one thinking of these things? (ie, do you think your husband should do this too?)

[Anew Leaf]

Question: why are other types unrealistically optimistic?

Why is optimism unrealistic?

[ceecee]

Well, that makes sense. I guess it's good that someone is thinking of these things and is mentally prepared. I notice a similar dynamic with my INTJ/ENTP friends. They are parents now and she's a nurse and is always outlining why he can't do x or y with the kids. He complains she over thinks things and then she gets upset that he is questioning her abilities.

Does it bother you at all that you are the one thinking of these things? (ie, do you think your husband should do this too?)

Oh no not at all. If both of us were thinking the same way, THAT would be bad. You need balance. I don't always voice what I'm thinking, I do make any reservations or concerns known if I feel it's needed. Like parenting, I don't question rules he's enforced with the kids. If dad said you can't...I have to back him on that. I might express my feelings in private but never in front of the kids. I have to trust his decision making ability and I do.

[Anew Leaf]

Oh no not at all. If both of us were thinking the same way, THAT would be bad. You need balance. I don't always voice what I'm thinking, I do make any reservations or concerns known if I feel it's needed. Like parenting, I don't question rules he's enforced with the kids. If dad said you can't...I have to back him on that. I might express my feelings in private but never in front of the kids. I have to trust his decision making ability and I do.

Great answer . You're one of my favorites on the forum to read, ceecee. a great mix of pragmatism, peppered with hilarious wit when you choose to show it. Also, it's so nice to read about how much you love your husband.

[ceecee]

Great answer . You're one of my favorites on the forum to read, ceecee. a great mix of pragmatism, peppered with hilarious wit when you choose to show it. Also, it's so nice to read about how much you love your husband.

Well, thank you. What a nice thing to say.

[Coriolis]

Interesting. I brought up mbti with him this weekend, and it turns out his grad program had him take the test recently. So now he's been researching INTJs and what careers they enjoy, and what they like in a job. He's going for med school on the researcher side so I think he will be in a place filled with more NTs than he may care to have.

When I talk to him I will make sure to focus more on what he has achieved than some ephemeral future possibility of achievement.

Question: why are INTJs so often pessimistic? I have my cynical side, but eventually I talk myself out of it when I see a butterfly or glitter or a cloud shapes like an alligator (I saw one the other night! It was eating a tree that was in its jaws.)

When I read your original question, I had a similar thought. Get him to focus not so much on what he has achieved - that is old history now - but rather what he will achieve, short and long term. With grad school on the horizon and clear career goals, that should be easy. It is very hard for relationships (or lack thereof) to trump professional, intellectual, or other creative accomplishment for an INTJ. This can be a weakness when we are trying to start or maintain a relationship, but in your friend's case, it is a strength. When I have gone through periods of depression due to personal or relationship troubles, my professional life has kept me focused and grounded.

As for your other question, INTJs aren't pessimistic, we are realistic. We do not wear the rose colored glasses so many others do. Our intuition shows us how much better things can be sometimes, but we are under no illusions that that is how they really are. The difference is what we need to work on. A butterfly, or glitter, or an interesting-shaped cloud are not going to solve the very real problems in the world, globally, locally, or individually; and if we allow them to distract us, or heaven forbid, lull us into some false sense of reality, then those problems are that much further from solution.

[InvisibleJim]

Why is optimism unrealistic?

Is realism optimistic or pessimistic?! :o

[InTheFlesh]

A better question, is realism realistic?

[Anew Leaf]

When I read your original question, I had a similar thought. Get him to focus not so much on what he has achieved - that is old history now - but rather what he will achieve, short and long term. With grad school on the horizon and clear career goals, that should be easy. It is very hard for relationships (or lack thereof) to trump professional, intellectual, or other creative accomplishment for an INTJ. This can be a weakness when we are trying to start or maintain a relationship, but in your friend's case, it is a strength. When I have gone through periods of depression due to personal or relationship troubles, my professional life has kept me focused and grounded.

As for your other question, INTJs aren't pessimistic, we are realistic. We do not wear the rose colored glasses so many others do. Our intuition shows us how much better things can be sometimes, but we are under no illusions that that is how they really are. The difference is what we need to work on. A butterfly, or glitter, or an interesting-shaped cloud are not going to solve the very real problems in the world, globally, locally, or individually; and if we allow them to distract us, or heaven forbid, lull us into some false sense of reality, then those problems are that much further from solution.

Thank you for clarifying. I misunderstood the original post in thinking I should focus on past achievements rather than future. I will say that when I do encourage him in his future endeavors he responds with "nothing is certain, not even my success." I have learned not to argue with that kind of thinking.

I understand the need for realism, but is it realistic to always be looking at everything that can go wrong? I am not silly enough to believe that butterflies and glitter will solve the world's problems... but they can give the mind a mini-break from the harshness of life.

I think you guys need a mini NF fairy to keep in your pocket to give you hugs or something so that you have these moments of silliness in between the seriousness of life.

Is realism optimistic or pessimistic?! :o

The correct answer is probably "it is neither, it is neutral." (Sigh, this is why I like INTPs more than INTJs.)

So, do you believe that optimism is always unrealistic, or is it possible that both optimism and realism can coexist in the same plane together at least some of the time?

Hmm, this may be time for a Venn Diagram!