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[INTJ] Ask an INTJ

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
This is actually related to something I've been running over and over in my mind, making myself bonkers the last few days. I am an extreme introvert. Which is not, of course, to say that I'm shy; I'm not shy at all. I have no problem talking to strangers or even doing the old "cold call" if I see a woman I think is attractive out in public. When I entered college I had pretty much no social skills whatsoever, but after making pretty much every social flub in the book I learned the ins and outs of human interaction and I'm fairly confident in my social skills.

The problem is that I just can't maintain it very long at all. I posted a thread a while back soliciting small talk advice. The reason being, while I can handle a meet-and-greet or party chit-chat, in a work setting the small talk comes all day intermittently, and my ability to maintain the "small talk mode" gets taxed to the point where I have a headache by the end of every work day. People had good advice on ways to make due that have been a help, but recently I've just decided to hell with it, and don't try to pass myself off as anything other than the giant introvert that I am. (I can tell one of the women I work with thinks I'm a fat asshole now. It's a bit ironic since I can tell she's an introvert, too, albeit of the "S" variety.)

What I've been going nuts running over in my mind is this dilemma: I'm damn tired of maintaining that front. I've learned how to do it, I've proven to myself that I can, but I'm tired of all of the mental effort that goes into it, not to mention how all of that mental energy could be better spent on my thoughts and theories! The problem is that I am, however, an NTJ and I don't abide by a lack of cordiality and respect very well. When I reveal myself to be an introvert, many people seem to think that means they can blow me off or otherwise treat me like a chump. I'm trying to figure out how to strike a proper balance.

If people have recommendations or what have you, I'm officially soliciting advice.

There are several ways to approach your problem but none of them are surefire bets. I can tell you what I do when I don't want to be bothered with people, but don't want to appear impolite or unsociable.

  1. Approach before you're approached. Sometimes I'll just go up to my coworkers and say hello (or briefly chit chat) at the beginning of the day and I'm usually left alone for the rest of the day. People seem content that you've satisfied some social requirements and they'll be chill with you.

  2. Planned events This one is similar to the first, but it's longer than the water cooler talk. If you want people off your case without coming off like an asshole, you're probably going to have to hang out with them once a month for an extended amount of time. My division does the work for us by having a quarterly lunch when everyone must mingle. Don't avoid these, just suck it up and go. People remember the person who sat in their office and didn't go (and THEY ARE talked about) rather than the person who showed up for 20 minutes and left.

    If your coworkers are going to happy hour, go with them every month or two to show that you're not approachable.

  3. Be a leech I know that sounds bad, but find someone more extroverted than yourself and be around them, laugh with them in a group, and drop a comment or two. People will think you're interacting too when it's the extrovert who is and you're just tagging along for the ride. Find an extrovert you like or don't mind so much and if you feel comfortable explain the situation to them. One of my introverted friends told me and I cover for her. When she gets tired, she leaves.

    Now this one is a trade off. You can't find an extrovert and bask in their glory for nothing. The extrovert will probably start to like you and you'll find them coming to your office to chat. You're just going to have to deal with it. Better to deal with one than many. But hopefully if they know your situation and that you're making an effort. It really depends on the extrovert. When I visit my introverted friends they're usually happy for the company they just don't want a stream of visitors throughout the day.

  4. Wear headphones :headphne: Another coworker told me when she doesn't want to be bothered she puts on her headphones. She's not even listening to anything, but it works like a charm! I do it too!:party2:

  5. Rearrange your working space I'm not very sure of this but I notice I'm more hesitant to bother people with their back to the door rather than people facing the door. I have no clue, but it may work.

Like I said before this isn't surefire, but it does deflect some unwanted contact. Hope this helps :)
 

sriv

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
418
MBTI Type
JIxT
1. What kind of personality do you take at your work and how might you guess people perceive you?

When I go to work, I am IsTJ. TOthers respect my work ethic, responsibility, and they percieve me as serious.

2. Does this personality style and perception of you represent how you would ideally like to be in your work environment? (i.e. how would you like to be perceived and what might you like to do differently in the social group that you find yourself not being able to do as often?)

Well, it works for work. Not necessarily for social interaction.

3. How would you handle yourself in a work environment that was strongly dominated by more Fs than Ts such as yourself?

I would be a foundation of rationality, logic, and level-headedness. I would probably pretend to empathize with their problems and joys.

How do you stay motivated to perform during your studies/job?

I tell myself that if I do not, I am screwed. It helps a lot.

Do you usually know what your next step will be? i.e. are you usually confident in your next move?

In important cases, I always know what my next step will be. I do not make a move unless I have a certain degree of confidence in it.

Do you mostly think in terms of sequencing?

All the time.

Are you careful about your hair and do your eyes look sleepy and distant?

Hair: When important I am careful. Most of the times, not really.

Eyes: All the time.
 

Firelie

Magical
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
836
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5
Do people you meet and interact with think you're an introvert, or are they surprised when they find out?

Yeah, they know. There's no mistaking me for an extrovert. I can't even manage to seem extroverted when I'm trying.
 

plebert

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
10
MBTI Type
ENFP
i love INTJs. i love the sarcasm and the appearance of arrogance. sigh. you guys are so cool. i need to find out how to meet a (healthy, not stalkerish) INTJ guy and have him fall in love with me...any hints????? hehe

ps: i have had quite a few INTJ stalkers. not fun. persistence is not always sexy.
 

DigitalMethod

Content. Content?
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
970
MBTI Type
INTJ
i love INTJs. i love the sarcasm and the appearance of arrogance. sigh. you guys are so cool. i need to find out how to meet a (healthy, not stalkerish) INTJ guy and have him fall in love with me...any hints????? hehe

ps: i have had quite a few INTJ stalkers. not fun. persistence is not always sexy.

Most INTJs prefer to stay at home, so, I guess.. you have to become a stalker :) How ironic.
 

plebert

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
10
MBTI Type
ENFP
hmm. this poses a problem. as usually breaking and entering is a crime...
 

DigitalMethod

Content. Content?
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
970
MBTI Type
INTJ
hmm. this poses a problem. as usually breaking and entering is a crime...

Knock.. and tell them your interested in discussing the [insert new or interesting scientific] theory. They might answer. Or hide in the corner due to social phobia.
 

plebert

New member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
10
MBTI Type
ENFP
not all INTJs are socially retarded though. and really, i don't think they're hiding from phobia so much, more like they're annoyed you interrupted their burgeoning epiphany.
 

Risen

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,185
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
9w8
This is actually related to something I've been running over and over in my mind, making myself bonkers the last few days. I am an extreme introvert. Which is not, of course, to say that I'm shy; I'm not shy at all. I have no problem talking to strangers or even doing the old "cold call" if I see a woman I think is attractive out in public. When I entered college I had pretty much no social skills whatsoever, but after making pretty much every social flub in the book I learned the ins and outs of human interaction and I'm fairly confident in my social skills.

The problem is that I just can't maintain it very long at all. I posted a thread a while back soliciting small talk advice. The reason being, while I can handle a meet-and-greet or party chit-chat, in a work setting the small talk comes all day intermittently, and my ability to maintain the "small talk mode" gets taxed to the point where I have a headache by the end of every work day. People had good advice on ways to make due that have been a help, but recently I've just decided to hell with it, and don't try to pass myself off as anything other than the giant introvert that I am. (I can tell one of the women I work with thinks I'm a fat asshole now. It's a bit ironic since I can tell she's an introvert, too, albeit of the "S" variety.)

What I've been going nuts running over in my mind is this dilemma: I'm damn tired of maintaining that front. I've learned how to do it, I've proven to myself that I can, but I'm tired of all of the mental effort that goes into it, not to mention how all of that mental energy could be better spent on my thoughts and theories! The problem is that I am, however, an NTJ and I don't abide by a lack of cordiality and respect very well. When I reveal myself to be an introvert, many people seem to think that means they can blow me off or otherwise treat me like a chump. I'm trying to figure out how to strike a proper balance.

If people have recommendations or what have you, I'm officially soliciting advice.

I'm glad someone else has noticed how energetically taxing it is to try and think and act as an extrovert, when you're a very natural introvert. It takes a lot of work, and for whatever reason, just takes a lot of freakin energy and focus, and just the right state of mind.

My theory on this is based on somewhat of a metaphysical/quantum physics/ spiritualist standpoint. That being, we all as revealed through MBTI have strong and week functions in our psyche. The fact is, what and how we think shapes how we view the world, and really what manifests in our world. It is the deciding factor to how our lives form around us, the kind of people we attract, what we can achieve, etc. The fact that we have strengths and weaknesses in parts of our psyche also means that the strongest parts of us are what most strongly effect our reality. Those functions are where most of our energy is channeled through. To take a weaker function and bring forth as much energy through it as your natural dominant functions is like trying to suck molasses through a straw. It takes a great deal of effort and energy to get much to come through that narrow space, so much so that it may not even be worth trying to rely upon it as much as your true dominant functions. That is not to say that trying isn't a worthy endeavor. Trying helps us to develop those weaker functions. But for the most part, those functions will never have as much space for energy to flow through as our dominant functions. Perhaps if we lived for hundreds of years, that level of development could be realized, but alas, we only have so much time and so much energy.
 

01011010

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
MBTI Type
INxJ
Maybe we need a poll to see how many other people have been stalked by INTJs. :D

This is pretty strange to me. I'm an INTJ, but I seem to attract obsessive stalker people of all types to me. Though, I do have one INTJ ex that periodically tries to make contact. He calls it pursuing friendship, I call it stalking.

How do you stay motivated to perform during your studies/job?
Studies, I guess because I have an important goal to reach. Mastering the knowledge of the coursework, and obtaining a degree where I can use said knowledge in a practical application. Job, I have to eat.

Do you usually know what your next step will be? i.e. are you usually confident in your next move?
I usually think of a few alternatives in case one option doesn't pan out for whatever reason, but I almost never have to use them because I generally make the right decision, the first time. Yes, I am always confidant in the decisions.

Do you mostly think in terms of sequencing?
As in a step by step process? That's the easiest way to get things done in an efficient manner.

Are you careful about your hair and do your eyes look sleepy and distant?
I'm careful with my hair in the sense that I don't want it in my eyes bothering me while I'm trying to accomplish tasks. Most people say I look intense. I seem to have a look of concentration the majority of the time. I think it's going to give me wrinkles in the future. lol
 

dnivera

New member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
165
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
Dear INTJs,

How do you get your crazy ideas?

Love,
An ISTJ who has to walk around the park, or stare off into space, to get "inspired"
 

DigitalMethod

Content. Content?
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
970
MBTI Type
INTJ
Dear INTJs,

How do you get your crazy ideas?

Love,
An ISTJ who has to walk around the park, or stare off into space, to get "inspired"

Usually when I'm in an atmosphere of general quiet, but that answers "where" and not so much how.

How? Hmm... by usually thinking about the future, and how to improve it. Or the past, and thinking how I should have done stuff - for use in the future to improve the future.

...:)
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Dear INTJs,

How do you get your crazy ideas?

Love,
An ISTJ who has to walk around the park, or stare off into space, to get "inspired"

I'm pretty sure it's the shower. There must be some kind of inspiration-mold growing inside the shower head. It doesn't really explain why it doesn't happen to anyone else in the house, though...
 

01011010

New member
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Messages
3,916
MBTI Type
INxJ
Maybe it's just that INTPs are irresistible to INTJs.

We are pretty amazing, after all--I can easily see any IJ type wanting to pursue us to the ends of the earth.

I concur. I am most attracted to INTPs. When they analyze an idea, they go so much farther than I ever would. I love to discuss practically any subject with an INTP, as long as I have adequate time to do so. ^.~
 

Rohsiph

New member
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
100
MBTI Type
lego
How do you get your crazy ideas?

They come ephemerally, as a cloud descends momentarily, compelling the marriage of earth and sky . . .

Really, they come from nowhere and everywhere. They are birthed from an unknowable crucible, fueled by every shade of every passing thought.
 

JustDave

New member
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
992
MBTI Type
xNTP
Although some of my ideas are a bit weird, most of them are inspired by the problems I encounter or observe everyday.
 
Last edited:

Uytuun

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
1,633
MBTI Type
nnnn
And also, how do you reconcile your allegiance to an NT type in general with your Intuition being so preponderous over Thinking

By choosing English literature as my major. ;)

The NTness of INTJs is really only a problem if you take Ti as the rational standard. The term is NT, not T(i), or N(i) for that matter. Regardless, here's something about how I experience Ni and Te and how they may be linked to the rational temperament:

You must realise that although subjective in the sense that Ni is generated from deep within the individual and without the individual consciously processing anything, what is generated tends to be very abstract and general in nature and often goes far, far beyond the individual. In jungian terms what INTJs have access to more easily are the archetypes that populate the collective unconscious. Ni makes connections, but they are emotionally neutral an sich and are immediately contextualised and interpreted in a rational manner. It's not as if we get Ni and then apply Te at our leisure, the outcome of Ni in INTJs can almost always be said to "make sense" in some way or other...Ni seems to string insights together in a fairly logical manner, but I have to do some further thinking (hehe) and evaluating about this...[it would make sense because Ni-Fe gets much less abstract and less general "hunches" thus suggesting that Te isn't just superimposed onto Ni, but influences it in a more fundamental way.] -->this just came from a sudden insight

Basically, I find that my Ni operates on a meta-level and is thoroughly interwoven with thinking (it's not as if INTJs are constitutionally incapable of throwing some Ti into the mix either ;)) and it's this meta-perspective (including the possibilty to evaluate the way in which we ourselves function) and abstract thinking that makes us NT. Our ability to see the validity of a myriad of perspectives (including the ones that deny the primacy of rationality) makes us more impartial and intellectually flexible than your average Ti dominant even. It may also account for our god complex. :D

It feels like you overestimate Fi in INTJs and underestimate Te, perhaps because INTPs are so low in F and so high in T themselves.

There seems to have been this wave movement starting out with INTJs as totally cold and analytical thinkers and continuing with INTJs as more intuitive and almost esotheric creatures that get carried away by their fantasies...neither really does us justice.

A question: are there any other INTJs that also feel like they are extremelty sensitive to things such as irony, paradox and contradiction?

*yawn* And now I'm off to bed.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
There seems to have been this wave movement starting out with INTJs as total cold and analytical thinkers to more intuitive and almost esotheric creatures, prophets what do I know, and neither is representative.

A question: are there any other INTJs that also feel like they are extremelty sensitive to things such as irony, paradox and contradiction?

Immature INTJs perpetuate the mythos described in your first paragraph. As best as I can tell, the rationale lies in subtle - yet psychologically global - existential angst. Usually, post-adolescent social assimilation (via unavoidable interpersonal networking - job; school; etc.) weakens this connective glue.

To your second question concerning dynamic irony; paradox and contradiction, my answer is yes. I notice instances everywhere, but have a hard time externalizing my discoveries into palpable structure for others to appreciate.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
Why are you so intent on convincing me you're right?

Why do you keep looking at me like I'm a moron?

No, wait, don't answer the second one. ;)
 
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