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[INTJ] Ask an INTJ

Nicodemus

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Aug 2, 2010
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When presented with the option, would an INTJ prefer a gift that's...

1). Useful/Practical - (IE: The missing ____ in their collection, tools, hardware, books, etc.)
2). Sentimental/Thoughtful - (IE: Something that reminds them of an inside joke between the two of you, tickets to their favourite _____, etc.)
3). Something totally random
4). Nothing at all
It depends on the person who is presenting the gift: in most cases 1); if the person is a lover, 2) can be good; sometimes 4); never 3), because if the gift is neither 1) nor 2), it is necessarily rubbish.
 

ceecee

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INTJ
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8w9
Lol and this is why I ask a forum worth of similar-minded folks ;)
Question though: If someone asks you/gets you something that you tell them to, doesn't that ruin the surprise and make it less special? Or maybe you guys aren't all that into surprises :) I have no idea.

I am sort of ok with surprises but it VERY much depends on how they are presented. For example, I know a co-worker that won a big award, trip, bonus..that sort of thing. Her supervisor called and said she was to come to a meeting with another superior. This poor woman spent most of the day thinking she was in trouble. Apparently this was their idea of an acceptable buildup to a great surprise. In a case like this it would take every bit of willpower I could summon to not to punch all responsible parties in the mouth. I felt bad for her and she found very little joy in the awards because of the way they were presented.

My ENFJ is very good at remembering things I have mentioned from months back that I might like. I think he keeps a list somewhere and refers back to it for birthdays and Christmas. Getting something I suggested would not ruin the surprise for me in the least.
 

InvisibleJim

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Lol and this is why I ask a forum worth of similar-minded folks ;)
Question though: If someone asks you/gets you something that you tell them to, doesn't that ruin the surprise and make it less special? Or maybe you guys aren't all that into surprises :) I have no idea.

Problem: If I want it I already have it. Therefore it has sentimental or practical value I have it. The best idea: present me a gift which I am unaware of but that I can enjoy. If it is a romantic gift, do something with me that interests me and which interests you; but generally don't make it something that requires lots of socialization. I have liked such things as this in the past: Racing cars, going to eat somewhere nice, shared massages. Things I have disliked: 'Romantic' going to gigs, 'romantic' spending time with friends etc. You get the idea, or maybe not.

:thinking: What are some major similarities/differences that you see between yourself and your 1-letter-different brethren (ENTJ, ISTJ, INFJ, INTP)?

ISTJ
Similarities - Kindered spirits in modes of thought, like structure are stable and if they share your interests then you can't lose.
Differences - Can get offended by the shifting nature of my existence, I can spotaneously move for work etc. This is anathema to them, you are rocking their boat of life.

ENTJ
Similarities - Lots of similarities, same ways of thinking and reacting. I find their honesty and directness refereshing.
Differences - Less content than we are. However they are very single minded. I don't know left here except Jaguar who I class as ENTJ as the ENTJs I know in the real world.

INFJ
Similarities - Not very much at all; as an ILI-Te I jive best with IEI-Fe types because we can find common benchmarks
Differences - Lots and lots, totally different values and ways of spending their time and how they think about problems. I would say these are very alien to me.

INTP
Similarities - Likes similar 'ideas' but thinks of them differently.
Differences - Lots and lots again. May appear superficially similar but on the inside its an alien who is offended at even the slightest questioning of the 'why' they do things. They don't bear much introspection.
 

Malice

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2W3
Thanks for the feedback guys :)
*stores information into my memory banks for later*
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
ISTJ
Similarities - Kindered spirits in modes of thought, like structure are stable and if they share your interests then you can't lose.
Differences - Can get offended by the shifting nature of my existence, I can spotaneously move for work etc. This is anathema to them, you are rocking their boat of life.

ENTJ
Similarities - Lots of similarities, same ways of thinking and reacting. I find their honesty and directness refereshing.
Differences - Less content than we are. However they are very single minded. I don't know left here except Jaguar who I class as ENTJ as the ENTJs I know in the real world.

INFJ
Similarities - Not very much at all; as an ILI-Te I jive best with IEI-Fe types because we can find common benchmarks
Differences - Lots and lots, totally different values and ways of spending their time and how they think about problems. I would say these are very alien to me.

INTP
Similarities - Likes similar 'ideas' but thinks of them differently.
Differences - Lots and lots again. May appear superficially similar but on the inside its an alien who is offended at even the slightest questioning of the 'why' they do things. They don't bear much introspection.

I find this incredibly off. On many levels.
 

INTPness

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Interesting. Thanks! This was obviously Jonnyboy's original question, but it's interesting to hear your guys' perspective.

ISTJ
Similarities - Kindered spirits in modes of thought, like structure are stable and if they share your interests then you can't lose.
Differences - Can get offended by the shifting nature of my existence, I can spotaneously move for work etc. This is anathema to them, you are rocking their boat of life.

I could see that.

ENTJ
Similarities - Lots of similarities, same ways of thinking and reacting. I find their honesty and directness refereshing.
Differences - Less content than we are. However they are very single minded. I don't know left here except Jaguar who I class as ENTJ as the ENTJs I know in the real world.

Less content in just "being" and existing and enjoying life for what it is? Like, they need more front-line action? Or they're more restless? Or what?

INFJ
Similarities - Not very much at all; as an ILI-Te I jive best with IEI-Fe types because we can find common benchmarks
Differences - Lots and lots, totally different values and ways of spending their time and how they think about problems. I would say these are very alien to me.

Hmm, I always thought these 2 types found a lot in common with each other. Irritating to each other, yes, but sort of a kindred spirit with leading Ni. Like how INTP's and INFP's find each other eerily similar. And ENTP's and ENFP's. And ENTJ's and ENFJ's. Didn't realize you guys were from different planets. :D

INTP
Similarities - Likes similar 'ideas' but thinks of them differently.
Differences - Lots and lots again. May appear superficially similar but on the inside its an alien who is offended at even the slightest questioning of the 'why' they do things. They don't bear much introspection.

Haha. Thank you so much for the alien compliment. :D I'm thinking about your observation that we don't bear much introspection. If anything, I've always been accused of being "too deep", too introspective, overthinking my own actions, overanalyzing my methods, etc. This is literally the first time I've heard this. We are stubborn, that's for darn sure. Maybe it's, just like you said, that we don't like it from others (in regards to our actions). Maybe we like to think/analyze about ourselves, but we don't like others doing it to us. Hmmm, yeah, that could be. *ponders how to change this for the better*.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
Well for one, in my experience, ISTJ and INTJ are the least similar of all the above mentioned. ISTJs are more rigid and INTJs more open, less serious. They approach the world completely differently, see situations differently, and have completely different motivations behind their actions. ISTJs remind me of regulators, while INTJs are a lot more easy going and less concerned with what SHOULD be.

I cant imagine them feeling a strong kinship toward each other since they are both Te users heading in very different directions.
 

InvisibleJim

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Less content in just "being" and existing and enjoying life for what it is? Like, they need more front-line action? Or they're more restless? Or what?

All of the above

Hmm, I always thought these 2 types found a lot in common with each other. Irritating to each other, yes, but sort of a kindred spirit with leading Ni. Like how INTP's and INFP's find each other eerily similar. And ENTP's and ENFP's. And ENTJ's and ENFJ's. Didn't realize you guys were from different planets. :D

I can stand them on the surface.

The reason you jive well with INFPs is because of the Fi-Ti which is a similar 'way' of seeing the ego position while you share an Ne parent so you interface the same way.

By contrast an INFJ/INTJ flip is sharing the same ego but 'interfacing' wrong by trying to talk Fe versus Te. Therefore the thoughts can be similar but what interests us and how we view the world can be very different.
 
T

ThatGirl

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The reason you jive well with INFPs is because of the Fi-Ti which is a similar 'way' of seeing the ego position while you share an Ne parent so you interface the same way.

By contrast an INFJ/INTJ flip is sharing the same ego but 'interfacing' wrong by trying to talk Fe versus Te. Therefore the thoughts can be similar but what interests us and how we view the world can be very different.

I disagree with this also. Because INTJ and INFJ view the world in very similar ways through their dominant Ni, this bridges the gap of misunderstanding how and when Fe/Te are applied. In my experience, Fe is a lot more understandable when coming from someone who sees the situation similarly, than people who seem to use Fe out of nowhere.

While not necessarily taking on this perspective as their own, INTJs tend to view and appreciate INFJs different, more person friendly, approach. I don't know any INTJ who would be unhappy with someone reasonably applying Fe in situations where they are inclined to over look it. Nor have I seen INFJs who are completely impervious to Te usage. Even more so, if they share a strong dominant Ni.


Alright, there are two out of many points I disagreed with. Obviously everyone sees things differently.
 

InvisibleJim

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I disagree with this also. Because INTJ and INFJ view the world in very similar ways through their dominant Ni, this bridges the gap of misunderstanding how and when Fe/Te are applied. In my experience, Fe is a lot more understandable when coming from someone who sees the situation similarly, than people who seem to use Fe out of nowhere.

While not necessarily taking on this perspective as their own, INTJs tend to view and appreciate INFJs different, more person friendly, approach. I don't know any INTJ who would be unhappy with someone reasonably applying Fe in situations where they are inclined to over look it. Nor have I seen INFJs who are completely impervious to Te usage. Even more so, if they share a strong dominant Ni.

Post A) Jim points out he is ILI-Te and therefore meshes well with IEI-Fe INFJs but not so well with IEI-Nis because I need to clearly see what they are using as benchmarks and goalposts.
Post B) Jim points out that those INFJs/INTJs because of their Ni focus are trapped by falling on alternative parents Te/Fe as a backup instead of using their external judgement to understand reality; as a sub-comment to the above precondition.

TG says: I disagree with what you think because Te/Fe is overridden by strong Ni regardless of the parent function which chokes the ego function even though it is the extroverted judgement mode!

I'll let you reconsider your argument on the basis you may have some refined understanding of what I suggested that bears truth against what I have personally experienced.
 
T

ThatGirl

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That's not what I said, actually I don't know what you just said. I said if two people are looking at the same thing, and one goes Fe the other Te, that is like fighting back to back and covering all your bases. I haven't seen Fe/Te pissing contests between them because Ni can see the utility of both.
 

InvisibleJim

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I haven't seen Fe/Te pissing contests between them because Ni can see the utility of both.

That's a shame because if it was what you said we were actually in agreement, might I add that its called cognitive preference for a reason and that PoLR exists on the inverse tertiary and thus makes the parents generally incompatible if used in certain ways?
 

knight

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can you figure out the conductivity of an element using the atomic weight? if so or not, how would you go about finding something like this out?
 

Crescent Fresh

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I would like to view INTJs' perspective of ENFP vs. ENTP

Their description seems quite similar to me and I wonder why most posters would say ENTP is a better match for INFJs?
 

INTPness

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A lot of you INTJ's say that you respect people who stand up for themselves and who are not doormats. When I stand up to the xxTJ's (Te, Fi) that I know IRL, one of two things seems to happen:

1. It turns into an argument/pissing match.
2. Sometimes I walk away feeling like I may have been "too" straightforward and triggered some Fi sadness.

If you're very blunt and even critical with someone (Te), what do you expect their response to be to you? It's logical that they would most likely "punch back", right? So, if you come at someone with cold, hard Te, how could that person ideally respond to you? If we cower and walk away, then we're a doormat. If we stand firm and "punch back", then we're argumentative. What's the happy medium?
 

InvisibleJim

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A lot of you INTJ's say that you respect people who stand up for themselves and who are not doormats. When I stand up to the xxTJ's (Te, Fi) that I know IRL, one of two things seems to happen:

1. It turns into an argument/pissing match.
2. Sometimes I walk away feeling like I may have been "too" straightforward and triggered some Fi sadness.

If you're very blunt and even critical with someone (Te), what do you expect their response to be to you? It's logical that they would most likely "punch back", right? So, if you come at someone with cold, hard Te, how could that person ideally respond to you? If we cower and walk away, then we're a doormat. If we stand firm and "punch back", then we're argumentative. What's the happy medium?

1) I like people who stand up to me, if they do so by providing at least some evidence rather than opinion > ALL.
2) I also have no difficulty with those who stand up to me on the basis of purely emotional reasons if they state it is for emotional reasons.
3) If you come with that weak 'well... socially blah blah, technically blah blah, can't quantify blah blah' its all very boring.
4) Worse if you decide to make the conversation about either one upmanship or your mental gymnastics/masturbation purely to avoid discussing pure logic or evidence.
 

INTPness

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1) I like people who stand up to me, if they do so by providing at least some evidence rather than opinion > ALL.
2) I also have no difficulty with those who stand up to me on the basis of purely emotional reasons if they state it is for emotional reasons.
3) If you come with that weak 'well... socially blah blah, technically blah blah, can't quantify blah blah' its all very boring.
4) Worse if you decide to make the conversation about either one upmanship or your mental gymnastics/masturbation purely to avoid discussing pure logic or evidence.

LOL @ #3. Thanks for the info.

I have specific scenarios in my head where a Te user would say something very "bold" IRL, either to me or to a 3rd party. And then when myself or the 3rd party punches back with something even "more bold", then the Te user seemed offended or sad when they realized the truth in the other person's statement.

Te user: You're an incompetent idiot.
Other person: Obviously you're the idiot if you've been stuck doing manual labor your whole life.
Te user: :(

Te user: This is the 3rd day in a row you've been 10 minutes late.
Other person: Yeah, but the job always gets done.
Te user: Look, don't argue with me or you'll be out of here.
Other person: *grabs personal belongings* Bye! Good luck on the rest of the project. :bye:
Te user: What did I do that was so bad?

I'm not being critical here, I'm just pointing out situations I've seen where I'm thinking to myself, "What did the Te user expect when they spoke that way to the other person? The other person had no intention whatsoever of engaging in verbal combat, but because Te threw the first stone, and the other person was not "a doormat", it turned into an ugly and unnecessary (maybe hurtful) situation.
 

Rex

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I would like to view INTJs' perspective of ENFP vs. ENTP
Im not overly impressed by neither.. ENTPs are so highly focused on looking good and being trendy it becomes annoying. to much talk to little walk.
But i have respect for ENTPs ability to absorb and get knowledge.

ENFPs i have mixed feelings about. guessing its down to not enough encounters.
A elderly hippie style teacher i had in computer stuff was super awesome.
While the more social correct ones has been kinda boring and not having the same vibe.
The cheif of staff at my workplace is a ENFP. Very touchy feely. took some time to get used to. She basically demanded my attention when i walked by. Even when she was in the middle of a conversation. "hi" and continued conversating.


Their description seems quite similar to me and I wonder why most posters would say ENTP is a better match for INFJs?
I have only talked to a girl that scored INFJ once, but i would easily separate you from a ENTP in a conversation. ENTP girls is a strange breed.
 
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