[MBTI General] INTP+ENTJ

[WALMART]

I get typed with fair frequency as INTP here, so I'll weigh in.

As with all people, ENTJ's can make particularly good partners given they have developed to a sensible level of social health.


The weak ones, I'd liken to old men croning from the safety of their porch.

The strong ones, diplomatic and sexy, firm-willed and tangible.

 

[Salomé]

^I definitely get an entp vibe from you. Right down to the av which is almost identical to a past (pure) ENTP poster.

Different strokes.

About the Fe I just meant that the ESFJ will generally not mind being the one sort of driving the relationship by being open and engaging. Their warmth overcomes our typical reserve. I disagree about Ti and Te. I have some great relationships qith both ESTJs and ENTJs .

romantic ones ?
Most of the "why does my INTP suck at relationships?" threads have been from the perspective of a female. The only man-rant I can recall was a controlling ESFJ who was so lacking in self-awareness and so full of self-pity it hurt to read him and I felt terribly sorry for his INTP partner.
All my experience with ESfJs tells me our diametrically opposite approach to ... pretty much everything, can only lead to conflict and frustration for both. But as you say, different strokes. I've yet to hear of a successful example of this pairing though.

Don't get me wrong I son'y mean to bash ENtJs. They are awesome, badasses who get stuff done. I just think there's a certain conflicts with INTPs.

No argument from me here.

If I don't like what someone is doing or telling me to do ill just agree and then do what ever I want.

My Fi prevents me from doing this most of the time. If I do, my agreement is always saturated with irony.

 

[Pseudo]

@salome

I was in a long relationship with an ESTJ, had a sort of fling with an ESFJ. Moms ENTJ, And I lived with a female ESFJ for two years. Living with the ESFJ was great same functions in reverse so you balance each other out. Break each other dominant-tertiary loops.

 

[greenfairy]

In refernce to bolded: It was relevent. I had saw on there that there was something about socionics...in addition to enneagram(of course, cause it was a Direct link ha ha)... and i was wondering what they thought about it...I probably was looking for some kind of "Te external validation" or whatever...but that page he/she had me on was a socionics forum or something...which i joined by the way...and learned that socionics people are effing hard core...and most don't like MBTI ...i don't go there as much as here

Yeah I know it was; it just wouldn't be in my mind, because I would just sift through all the information and take what made sense and leave what didn't. But you're saying it's relevant to you because you are trying to determine the credibility of the source?

 

[INA]

I've never tried to get close to another INTP male...I wouldn't even know how and I am one!

No experience with INTPs either, probably cause neither "tries to get close." I am curious, though, if it's anything like INfPs. I tend to like intp dudes for the most part online. Don't know any confirmed ones IRL.

 

[greenfairy]

I was in a relationship with an ENTJ male for about 8 months, and it worked great. I appreciated that he was grounded and disciplined, and could inspire me to have more structure in my life. I liked that he was emotionally balanced and nearly impossible to offend, and was pretty in touch with reality. I liked that I could ask him questions about social interaction and he would tell me the answers in an honest yet nonjudgmental manner. He was rational and detached, yet sensitive to my needs. He appreciated that I am sane and calm; he said that if he hadn't met me he would probably hate women because I'm the only one he's met who in his opinion is rational and not crazy or immature. We both value honesty and freedom in relationships. We had a ton in common, and never had a problem with communication. We never fought, and we're still friends.

I may not be INTP, but if I am I would expect the INTP-ENTJ relationship dynamic to be somewhat along these lines when it works well, and the types would appreciate these things about each other.

 

[Savitri]

I dated one for 7-8 months. We were friends for about 7 years before anything romantic happened. Within those 7 years our communication was sporadic, at times havin only 1 conversation a year, albeit a very long conversation of what has happened in the previous months. Then one summer, fireworks of intellectual mumbo-jumbo and unpopular opinions were discussed and I fell head over heels.

Te + Ti is a strong combo in tackling mind boggling arguments and discussions but completely retarded when it came to matters of the heart.

 

[Redbone]

Then one summer, fireworks of intellectual mumbo-jumbo and unpopular opinions were discussed and I fell head over heels.

No experience with INTPs either, probably cause neither "tries to get close." I am curious, though, if it's anything like INfPs. I tend to like intp dudes for the most part online. Don't know any confirmed ones IRL

.
It's really hard to get close to them, too. That would be fine if they didn't have a tendency to be so freaking irresistible.

 

[Savitri]

I know. Get over it
.

It's really hard to get close to them, too.

Ah, not really. The Fi-doms in my life tend to like sharing their views, values, and opinions on a myriad of topics. It's great listening to them speak because you can tell they're so invested in it.

As for Ti-doms you have to get pass their "another dumb bitch" pretense. I kid. The Ti-dom opened up when he knew he could trust me to judge things objectively without causing harm to his integrity. But I don't think this is limited to just INTPs.

 

[Evo]

Yeah I know it was; it just wouldn't be in my mind, because I would just sift through all the information and take what made sense and leave what didn't. But you're saying it's relevant to you because you are trying to determine the credibility of the source?

Sort of...I guess. I think i was just asking their opinion because they had led me to that site for whatever reason it was...he gave me a site ha ha i guest is the real reason why it was relevant to him..? ha ha is that what you're asking...i'm way lost now on relevance...but this is an Ni thing, it relates to things in weird ass ways and then cannot explain them to people...it's like another language ha ha dammit communication fail on my part...then i get impatient from it happening so much.

On a different note, the other day if you were to ask me if you were an infp from that one thread you had, i would have said yes 100%. But now you seem so NT on this thread ha ha...at least you have a common denominator of Ne lol.

 

[Evo]

I know. Get over it
.


Ah, not really. The Fi-doms in my life tend to like sharing their views, values, and opinions on a myriad of topics. It's great listening to them speak because you can tell they're so invested in it.

As for Ti-doms you have to get pass their "another dumb bitch" pretense. I kid. The Ti-dom opened up when he knew he could trust me to judge things objectively without causing harm to his integrity. But I don't think this is limited to just INTPs.

Can you give an example of this? Would that be like not talkign crap about another person that was close to you or something?

 

[INTP]

So if anyone's going to attack a Ti framework, they'd better have all their ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, prior to doing so.

if you dont have all your ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, you are attacking against something that you dont understand, doing that is retarded and wont do any good. since your point of view would be lacking without all those birds and shit, your opinion is worthless to the debate and you will just annoy the shit out of any INTP trying to debate like that. its like trying to open too large screw with too little screw driver and not understanding why it wont open, even tho you have been told..

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

if you dont have all your ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, you are attacking against something that you dont understand, doing that is retarded and wont do any good. since your point of view would be lacking without all those birds and shit, your opinion is worthless to the debate and you will just annoy the shit out of any INTP trying to debate like that. its like trying to open too large screw with too little screw driver and not understanding why it wont open, even tho you have been told..

On the other hand, needlessly harping on details when the gist of the argument has been communicated is just as stupid (and annoying to us).

We could sit around defining words all day (in law they call this the battle of the dictionaries), and perfectly enumerate every facet of the argument, but I would rather get the hell on with it already.

The ENTJ is probably seven steps ahead and already tired of discussing some narrow definition that doesn't really effect one's understanding of the argument as a whole.

 

[Savitri]

Can you give an example of this? Would that be like not talkign crap about another person that was close to you or something?

More like, if he had a problem, I would acknowledge his barriers to attaining my suggested solution. Not everyone is capable of turning things around as quickly as I can nor do they have the means to do so in a timely manner. I gave him his space to pick and prod at my solution in a way that was not overstepping his boundaries. (Not bossing him around or giving him the "if you don't do this, you're going to be an idiot" speech. The latter is okay when it's emotionally light or trivial problems... )

They need to know their competence isn't being questioned and that they'll arrive at an agreeable solution. I knew the guy for 7 years though and pretty much knew how he ticked. I'd imagine figuring out people's boundaries would be more difficult to ascertain when you've only known them for a few months. But I think as a general rule, they don't like their competence/ability to be questioned, I think it's an introvert thing

 

[INTP]

On the other hand, needlessly harping on details when the gist of the argument has been communicated is just as stupid (and annoying to us).

yes, and its equally annoying having to explain something multiple times, because some people are not being able to comprehend or care to understand the whole idea due to just picking up few key elements out of whats being said and forming some distorted image of them. you need to realize that this goes both ways, to us it seems stupid to do what i just said above and to you it seems stupid to actually understand something in deeper level, instead of just seeing few things that seem relevant to accomplish something. you see TiNe mindset wants to share understanding about something, not instructions on how you need to do something.

after all arguments do come from misunderstandings, usually arguments with TJs seem to be(from my perspective ofc) them not understanding something, me trying to explain it, them getting annoyed cuz not understanding(or cuz details that explain something in more deeper level instead of just how to accomplish something), then them saying something irrelevant that has nothing to do with what im trying to say and being unable to explain how this what they say is relevant.

We could sit around defining words all day (in law they call this the battle of the dictionaries), and perfectly enumerate every facet of the argument, but I would rather get the hell on with it already.

if we dont share same definitions of words it will take all day to explain something simple. you see the complicated(to understand) words that often need to be defined have more information embedded to them than words like 'yes' or 'no', but defining for example the word 'differentation' when speaking about jungian psychology, we can replace at least 10-20 sentences just with that one word and still have the same understanding what the other person is communicating.

The ENTJ is probably seven steps ahead and already tired of discussing some narrow definition that doesn't really effect one's understanding of the argument as a whole.

its funny because often feel like its the other way around, TJs thinking they got it figured out, but having really subjective and distorted image of the matter at hand and not being able to incorporate those newly defined words in their subjective thoughts about the matter. its like their thinking gets too fixed in certain (highly subjective)ideas that its impossible to change it.

its funny that i dont notice this with tert/inferior Te users at all, only in aux/dom Te users whos Te/Pi takes larger part of their ego. also, i didnt have this problem with my ISTJ friend, but have noticed it with ESTJs, ENTJs and INTJs, maybe more on the NTJs

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

yes, and its equally annoying having to explain something multiple times, because some people are not being able to comprehend or care to understand the whole idea due to just picking up few key elements out of whats being said and forming some distorted image of them. you need to realize that this goes both ways, to us it seems stupid to do what i just said above and to you it seems stupid to actually understand something in deeper level, instead of just seeing few things that seem relevant to accomplish something. you see TiNe mindset wants to share understanding about something, not instructions on how you need to do something.

after all arguments do come from misunderstandings, usually arguments with TJs seem to be(from my perspective ofc) them not understanding something, me trying to explain it, them getting annoyed cuz not understanding(or cuz details that explain something in more deeper level instead of just how to accomplish something), then them saying something irrelevant that has nothing to do with what im trying to say and being unable to explain how this what they say is relevant.



if we dont share same definitions of words it will take all day to explain something simple. you see the complicated(to understand) words that often need to be defined have more information embedded to them than words like 'yes' or 'no', but defining for example the word 'differentation' when speaking about jungian psychology, we can replace at least 10-20 sentences just with that one word and still have the same understanding what the other person is communicating.



its funny because often feel like its the other way around, TJs thinking they got it figured out, but having really subjective and distorted image of the matter at hand and not being able to incorporate those newly defined words in their subjective thoughts about the matter. its like their thinking gets too fixed in certain (highly subjective)ideas that its impossible to change it.

its funny that i dont notice this with tert/inferior Te users at all, only in aux/dom Te users whos Te/Pi takes larger part of their ego. also, i didnt have this problem with my ISTJ friend, but have noticed it with ESTJs, ENTJs and INTJs, maybe more on the NTJs

We understand we just don't care.

 

[INTP]

We understand we just don't care.

my conclusion of not understanding comes from actions/words/etc that contradict understanding. if it was about caring and not about understanding, those actions/words/whatevers would not contradict any aspects of the model of understanding that i am offering, but would show in only implementing some aspects of what i said and some disregarding some things that seem irrelevant.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

A model of understanding that you created from your perspective.

To us you don't understand.

But trying to explain this is like trying to describe the color red to a blind man.

 

[INTP]

A model of understanding that you created from your perspective.

To us you don't understand.

But trying to explain this is like trying to describe the color red to a blind man.

hah, i knew you werent going to answer with quote or mention

i know that its just my perspective, i never claimed otherwise. but you see, you do the typical TJ thing again, you just say im wrong and say something i know and something obvious and not explain yourself properly. i talk all these things about just picking up some key elements and drawing conclusions from them etc. you know REASONS for my thinking. you just say that this is my perspective and that i dont understand. if you think i dont understand something, explain to me what i dont understand, so that i can understand it. now usually the case is that the TJ is unable to explain or reason the thing i am supposedly not understanding. and more often than not, when they do try to explain, they just say something i said in different words, say something irrelevant and being unable to explain why it is relevant etc etc which clearly demonstrates that its them who do not understand, but think they understand. what makes this even more pronounced is the *see post #116*

again this has gone the typical route, in order to continue i feel like i have to repeat myself, since you dont contribute anything new, basically just say that i dont understand from your perspective and you do and its pretty obvious that you feel that way, no need to say obvious things, tell me why, reason, say something that means something for the conversation, because if you dont, there is no reason for you to say anything.

 

[Evo]

yes, and its equally annoying having to explain something multiple times, because some people are not being able to comprehend or care to understand the whole idea due to just picking up few key elements out of whats being said and forming some distorted image of them. you need to realize that this goes both ways, to us it seems stupid to do what i just said above and to you it seems stupid to actually understand something in deeper level, instead of just seeing few things that seem relevant to accomplish something. you see TiNe mindset wants to share understanding about something, not instructions on how you need to do something.

after all arguments do come from misunderstandings, usually arguments with TJs seem to be(from my perspective ofc) them not understanding something, me trying to explain it, them getting annoyed cuz not understanding(or cuz details that explain something in more deeper level instead of just how to accomplish something), then them saying something irrelevant that has nothing to do with what im trying to say and being unable to explain how this what they say is relevant.

I love this! this is what I have been looking for! I actually understand an INTP's point of view! woohoo!!!
This might sound stupid but can you give a more specific example than what you already have ie a specific convo other than this one on a different subject or something????



if we dont share same definitions of words it will take all day to explain something simple. you see the complicated(to understand) words that often need to be defined have more information embedded to them than words like 'yes' or 'no', but defining for example the word 'differentation' when speaking about jungian psychology, we can replace at least 10-20 sentences just with that one word and still have the same understanding what the other person is communicating.

I agree, misunderstandings of two people's definitions is bad...I often have to drag the other person's definition out of them to understand where the difference in opinion is.

We understand we just don't care.

Can be true, we may understand the idea and all of it's aspects it's just not worth it to care about...and i think a lot of that has to do with Te with Se they like action.

A model of understanding that you created from your perspective.

To us you don't understand.

But trying to explain this is like trying to describe the color red to a blind man.

That's definately what it feels like sometimes

hah, i knew you werent going to answer with quote or mention

i know that its just my perspective, i never claimed otherwise. but you see, you do the typical TJ thing again, you just say im wrong and say something i know and something obvious and not explain yourself properly. i talk all these things about just picking up some key elements and drawing conclusions from them etc. you know REASONS for my thinking. you just say that this is my perspective and that i dont understand. if you think i dont understand something, explain to me what i dont understand, so that i can understand it. now usually the case is that the TJ is unable to explain or reason the thing i am supposedly not understanding. and more often than not, when they do try to explain, they just say something i said in different words, say something irrelevant and being unable to explain why it is relevant etc etc which clearly demonstrates that its them who do not understand, but think they understand. what makes this even more pronounced is the *see post #116*

again this has gone the typical route, in order to continue i feel like i have to repeat myself, since you dont contribute anything new, basically just say that i dont understand from your perspective and you do and its pretty obvious that you feel that way, no need to say obvious things, tell me why, reason, say something that means something for the conversation, because if you dont, there is no reason for you to say anything.

In referece to bold: Are you sure it's just a TJ thing other than istj...what i really mean is have you gone in this specific "route" before with an estj? cause i think they are very detailed...i could be wrong.

First I'd like to say that find it difficult to explain myself because I feel like i'm stating the obvious and I think my Fe can be hyperactive...so I hate being corny or stating the obvious in front of other people. What i'm really getting at though is Ni. This sounds like Ni....intp's are always talking about relevance...actually it could just be Ti in general. Either way I find that a bit odd because why would I take time to talk to you about something if it's irrelevant...i guess that just makes me annoyed a little...deciding what's relevant or not...as if the thought doesn't matter....and when my thought is questioned like that ...no I may not have prepared response because Ni is giving me the thought. I don't know how to translate it myself let alone translate it to you. I think we do understand because of Ni, just don't know how to explain why ...At least that is how it is for me...I love Ni but not when i'm debating...unless i've done it repeatedly before and know my response and have sifted through my Ni to get the real explaination. And then when you bring the word relevance back into the equation, Ni is constantly connecting the dots....so how is something not relevant when it came from another thought...i don't think i like that term ha ha.