[MBTI General] INTP+ENTJ

[figsfiggyfigs]

Seems like younger INTPs. I've been oblivious for a long period of my younger years. It however seems like that, men my age grow into what I was in my younger years. And I seem to do the opposite. I see many men that stop developing their behaviors as they grow older and seem defiant in changing their ways. And single men particularly, they seem like stereotypes to me. Probably why I feel alienated from most men my age.

On the topic, I see great prospects in both ENTJ and ENFJ women for adult INTP males

Females definitely have a different vibe or quality to them than the male INTPs. I don't know what it is. They seem much more in control of themselves, decisive, and determined than their male counterparts.

I do agree that the male INTPs tend to stagnate after a unspecified period of time, but those with partners seem to get the push or the responsibilities thrusted onto them that allows them to grow while others don't seem to seek out responsibilities and personal growth in maturity. They don't need the world, and any gesture that they're capable of doing to get in is blasphemy.

It has more to do with being unwilling to play silly Si-based social games.

I think this fits my last sentence perfectly.

Social games are not necessarily bad when you're trying to have fun and get to know people. It is when they become an obstacle to attaining a consequential commodity that they should be disengaged and dismissed .

 

[Mad Hatter]

Females definitely have a different vibe or quality to them than the male INTPs. I don't know what it is. They seem much more in control of themselves, decisive, and determined than their male counterparts.

I think that more than anything else, this has to do with gender roles and expectations than with the INTPs themselves. Most of them are neither very masculine or very feminine, so the average female INTP comes across more masculine than the average woman, and the average male INTP less masculine than the average man.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I think that more than anything else, this has to do with gender roles and expectations than with the INTPs themselves. Most of them are neither very masculine or very feminine, so the average female INTP comes across more masculine than the average woman, and the average male INTP less masculine than the average man.

Yup, I remember one INTP female talking about this, or maybe it was you in the past, but this is why I stayed away from using words such as masculine and feminine, because I do agree, they tend to have an inclination for a gender neutral existence.

 

[rav3n]

I think that more than anything else, this has to do with gender roles and expectations than with the INTPs themselves. Most of them are neither very masculine or very feminine, so the average female INTP comes across more masculine than the average woman, and the average male INTP less masculine than the average man.

Perhaps the average INTP male is less stereotypically macho but there are a subset that are quite masculine and also, unafraid to explore interests which are stereotypically considered feminine since their interests tend to be expansive due to natural curiosity about the world and how it all works.

As a generality, the INTPs I've had relationships with enjoyed staying fit, whether through running, some weight training, beach volleyball, football, you name it, they were into it. But on the otherhand, they were eccentric where one loved poetry, another was into making the actual pasta noodles or bread from scratch, etc., another was into growing rare orchids. And as usual, they had different intellectual interests into hard and soft sciences, like quantum mechanics, economics, maths, etc. In other words, wherever the link led, they had a need to investigate with their curious minds.

I'm not necessarily trying to convince people to jump into these relationships. Just sharing my good experiences of the combination where in general, it's difficult for me to get cranked with the vast majority of men unless they're fairly well rounded and relatively open-minded individuals.

 

[rav3n]

Social games are not necessarily bad when you're trying to have fun and get to know people. It is when they become an obstacle to attaining a consequential commodity that they should be disengaged and dismissed .

Most often, social games are a waste of time for me although I will play them sometimes. My preference for connections of any type, are with people who prefer not to play.

 

[Spin]

Yup, I remember one INTP female talking about this, or maybe it was you in the past, but this is why I stayed away from using words such as masculine and feminine, because I do agree, they tend to have an inclination for a gender neutral existence.

Yay! I'm not the only one! Growing up, I always felt like more of an "it" or "just a person" than a "she." I love being a woman, but it's not something I'm always aware of. Like, I remember that I'm a woman if I'm talking to someone I find attractive, or having "girl talk," or standing in front of the mirror, but if I'm just having a discussion with someone or spending time with my family, I just feel like a person.

 

[Ginkgo]

INTPs tend to carry out unorthodox lives compared to ENTJs while still tending to be less individualistic than ENTJs in their social perspectives. Consequentially, INTPs are even weirder when they try to be friendly, while ENTJs tend to find outlets in which to contribute. Though the two types would find common ground, in theory, their common desire for autonomy + their differing approaches to their common interests = lots of potential for mishap.

 

[yenom]

WTF. Someone explain this to me.

I think alpha women like you will remain hopelessly single. Better embrace this prospect than make pointless threads.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I think alpha women like you will remain hopelessly single. Better embrace this prospect than make pointless threads.

I'd probably sigh in agreement had this statement been true. How disappointing. Poo.

 

[Craft]

I like antisocial ENTJs. yeah, they do exist.

 

[yenom]

I'd probably sigh in agreement had this statement been true. How disappointing. Poo.

BDSM

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

D: stop reading my diary, you creep!

 

[Ginkgo]

 

[Totenkindly]

One thing I never understood is why the ENTJ guys would hit on me. it was odd what a high percentage of active chasers would be ENTJ guys. I think they valued my intelligence (sure) and then took it as a challenge to woo me. Meanwhile, they'd get skittish later when I started to truly engage them, especially in more relational areas. I just felt like they felt uncomfortable in that sphere, and didn't like the fact I might not be entirely controllable, like they had a set way of engaging and I was more casual in my approach and didn't necessarily follow their rules.

Oh sure. It takes forever for an INTP to conclude, but when they've finally concluded something, it is most often rock solid within the Ti framework. That said, it can also be inaccurate, particularly with some out in the next galaxy INTPs (not you for sure). But to attack a Ti framework is tantamount to attacking the trunk of a tree. INTPs will lash out and protect that trunk since it leads to all the corollary branches.

So if anyone's going to attack a Ti framework, they'd better have all their ducks, geese, chickens, carrier pigeons and dodo birds in order, prior to doing so.

Agreed.

If you can make a justifiable argument, I'm very very amenable to change how I view things. I'm not doing it to agree with you, i'm doing it because the data you've shared has convinced me that your contribution is more accurate than mine was; and as soon as you do that, then I'll very quickly reposition everything and let the ramifications ripple through the system.

(My logic's not typically bad; usually a change in my view/argument results from either reprioritizing certain data or adding data I wasn't aware of.)

Anyway, it's almost impossible to get me to budge unless you hit me through the above angle; once you do and your data is right, I'll change easily.

 

[rav3n]

One thing I never understood is why the ENTJ guys would hit on me. it was odd what a high percentage of active chasers would be ENTJ guys. I think they valued my intelligence (sure) and then took it as a challenge to woo me. Meanwhile, they'd get skittish later when I started to truly engage them, especially in more relational areas. I just felt like they felt uncomfortable in that sphere, and didn't like the fact I might not be entirely controllable, like they had a set way of engaging and I was more casual in my approach and didn't necessarily follow their rules.

Can't speak for ENTJ men since I'm not a fan of them. But from what I've observed, they're not into equal partnership relationships where with ENTJ women, there appears to be more variance beginning with equal partnerships and ending in being the dominant partner. Can't actually say that I've ever observed or met an ENTJ woman in a relationship who's been the submissive partner.

Agreed.

If you can make a justifiable argument, I'm very very amenable to change how I view things. I'm not doing it to agree with you, i'm doing it because the data you've shared has convinced me that your contribution is more accurate than mine was; and as soon as you do that, then I'll very quickly reposition everything and let the ramifications ripple through the system.

(My logic's not typically bad; usually a change in my view/argument results from either reprioritizing certain data or adding data I wasn't aware of.)

Anyway, it's almost impossible to get me to budge unless you hit me through the above angle; once you do and your data is right, I'll change easily.

This I've observed from you. You're pretty flexy but no fool.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Can't speak for ENTJ men since I'm not a fan of them. But from what I've observed, they're not into equal partnership relationships

I was going to respond, but then I realized I had forgotten to take my grain of salt.

 

[Totenkindly]

Can't speak for ENTJ men since I'm not a fan of them.

I'm not sure I am either. More because I can't seem to make a real connection; they're more concerned with keeping control on things and showing me how smart and capable they are, but I'm not much into polish. I'm very sure the second one dropped me because I caught him off-guard in a conversation (I accidentally called him in the middle of a texting convo while I was out), and like a typical P I just thought, "Oh well," and went with it, and he acted fine during the convo, but he seemed very much out of sorts and that was our last contact, he just vanished. The conversation was fine, he acted very friendly on the phone, but I got the impression he didn't like feeling vulnerable in the interaction, I think, without everything being planned. I.e., I got a more "real him" and he didn't like me breaking the veneer or being on equal terms.

But from what I've observed, they're not into equal partnership relationships where with ENTJ women, there appears to be more variance beginning with equal partnerships and ending in being the dominant partner. Can't actually say that I've ever observed or met an ENTJ woman in a relationship who's been the submissive partner.

That is the experience I have as well. The female ENTJs are more like, "here I am," but don't need to be in charge; however they typically just are strong personalities, so if you can't measure up, they'll end up dominating automatically; they're totally open to you being right in there and being their equal, though.

I've always felt like the ENTJ guy feels more comfortable being in charge from the start and tries to actively be in control; as soon as you push back, he has to make a decision about his own competence and whether he would retain or lose the dominant position. Yes, some spunk and pushback is good... just not enough where he no longer feels like he's able to compete and keep lead.

 

[rav3n]

I'm not sure I am either. More because I can't seem to make a real connection; they're more concerned with keeping control on things and showing me how smart and capable they are, but I'm not much into polish. I'm very sure the second one dropped me because I caught him off-guard in a conversation (I accidentally called him in the middle of a texting convo while I was out), and like a typical P I just thought, "Oh well," and went with it, and he acted fine during the convo, but he seemed very much out of sorts and that was our last contact, he just vanished. The conversation was fine, he acted very friendly on the phone, but I got the impression he didn't like feeling vulnerable in the interaction, I think, without everything being planned. I.e., I got a more "real him" and he didn't like me breaking the veneer or being on equal terms.

Sounds like these two guys were heavily J. If not fully in control and have anticipated every situation, lack comfort and need to regain that control.

That is the experience I have as well. The female ENTJs are more like, "here I am," but don't need to be in charge; however they typically just are strong personalities, so if you can't measure up, they'll end up dominating automatically; they're totally open to you being right in there and being their equal, though.

Not just open to an equal partnership but desiring it like nothing else!

I've always felt like the ENTJ guy feels more comfortable being in charge from the start and tries to actively be in control; as soon as you push back, he has to make a decision about his own competence and whether he would retain or lose the dominant position. Yes, some spunk and pushback is good... just not enough where he no longer feels like he's able to compete and keep lead.

Great insight into the competence part! Wonder if it's associated to expectations within the social gender construct of the man needing to be large and in charge?

 

[Evo]

hmm I have barely met 1 ENTJ male irl, he was in a relationship with one of my male freinds(ISFJ) and all I remember the isfj talking about is that the ENTJ would never shut up. No control issues though. I have not met female ENTJs irl. weird.

 

[Hildur]

I cooperate fine with ESTJs (e.g. my business partner since several years) but I really cannot se myself having a romantic relationship with one. It's different at work, I can allow myself to be "bossed around" a bit, because I can also benefit from the SJ taking over and doing most of the concrete work. I wouldn't accept being bossed around like that by a lover...

I can see how it would be a Very Bad Idea for a male ENTJ and a female INTP to pair up.

Maybe it works better flipped.

I worship ENTJs (at least theoretically, I'm not sure I've really met any in real life), probably because I wish I was more like that myself... But the argument as with ESTJs stays. I refuse to be bossed around (if it's not in a work situation, and I see the general benefit and that we're aiming for the same target). I've met a lot of ESTJs and almost always feel as if they have no idea who I am. Even my ESTJ father doesn't see more than a couple of percent of my capabilities. I would guess it's the same with ENTJs, why would they appreciate me more than ESTJs do?

In general, being an INTP woman feels like the cause is lost to begin with. I will never fit in, or find anyone who fits with me, so why bother...