[MBTI General] Personality disorders and mbti.

[Maxcool131]

As I have been reading over the last few days about bpd (borderline personality disorder) it seems like alot of the symptoms of this disorder seem like introvert characteristic`s and so I was wondering could somone who is a extrovert who has bpd be misinterpreted as introvert or vice versa because some people who have bpd can have uncontrollable anger. But however you would never know if this is true because even though you can make life easier using treatment for bpd you cant cure so you would always have it or could a disorder like bpd be the reason there i or a e. Any thoughts or criticism of this by somone with more experience and knowledge would be much appreciated.

 

[prplchknz]

i or e isn't determined by BPD, with that said although i believe don't know for sure, but believe that most people with BPD are e's just because of the nature of the disorder. jm2cents

 

[Stanton Moore]

I imagine that introverts and extroverts would exhibit different attributes of the disorder, in differing degrees. An 'E' may engage in more external risky behavior, like driving fast, more parting, promiscuity; an 'I' may become more isolated, ruminate, be less social but perhaps more clingy, while still numbing out with substances. So I/E may be involved in the reaction to the original trauma, but not in experiencing it in the first place.

 

[RaptorWizard]

INTP - Schizoid
ENTP - Narcissistic
INTJ - Schizotypal
ENTJ - Sadistic
INFP - Histrionic
ENFP - Paranoid
INFJ - Avoidant
ENFJ - Obsessive Compulsive
ISTP - Antisocial
ESTP - Narcissistic
ISFP - Borderline
ESFP - Borderline
ISTJ - Depressive
ESTJ - Passive Aggressive
ISFJ - Dependant
ESFJ - Self Defeating

Those are just vague generalizations for what type is most likely to have which of the 14 personality disorders, but theoretically any type could have any of the 14 personality disorders.

 

[SilkRoad]

People with BPD are supposed to make frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, engage in risky and/or suicidal behaviour, have trouble with their identity, poor emotional regulation etc. How are these introvert characteristics, or what other BPD characteristics are supposed to be introvert-like? I really don't get that.

I have until recently (when I couldn't take it any more) dealt a lot with someone who at least has BPD-like characteristics and was pretty obsessed with me. I dealt with stalking behaviours, inappropriate anger, efforts to appropriate my personality (ie. adopting all my interests, dressing like me, acting like my friends were all her friends, etc etc). I think she is either an outgoing INFP, or a withdrawn ENFP, but it is hard to tell when someone is plainly mentally ill. She was always going on about being an introvert - but then, she also seemed to think that the way to become friends with people was to force herself into their life and force them to spend time with her, which doesn't seem all that introverted. (She also does a lot of random interaction on the internet, being aggressive and starting arguments, that kind of thing.)

So, I don't know. But I really don't think that BPD makes you look like an introvert or vice versa.

 

[Seymour]

People with BPD are supposed to make frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, engage in risky and/or suicidal behaviour, have trouble with their identity, poor emotional regulation etc. How are these introvert characteristics, or what other BPD characteristics are supposed to be introvert-like? I really don't get that.

I have until recently (when I couldn't take it any more) dealt a lot with someone who at least has BPD-like characteristics and was pretty obsessed with me. I dealt with stalking behaviours, inappropriate anger, efforts to appropriate my personality (ie. adopting all my interests, dressing like me, acting like my friends were all her friends, etc etc). I think she is either an outgoing INFP, or a withdrawn ENFP, but it is hard to tell when someone is plainly mentally ill. She was always going on about being an introvert - but then, she also seemed to think that the way to become friends with people was to force herself into their life and force them to spend time with her, which doesn't seem all that introverted. (She also does a lot of random interaction on the internet, being aggressive and starting arguments, that kind of thing.)

So, I don't know. But I really don't think that BPD makes you look like an introvert or vice versa.

The woman I was engaged to (a bazillion years ago) seemed to be vaguely XSFP. I think it's a little difficult to imagine a BPD loner because of the need to be glommed onto someone else. My fiancée certainly wasn't interested in any kind of "alone time" or "away time" in any kind of way... she found it deeply threatening and distressing. Good times.

 

[SilkRoad]

The woman I was engaged to (a bazillion years ago) seemed to be vaguely XSFP. I think it's a little difficult to imagine a BPD loner because of the need to be glommed onto someone else. My fiancée certainly wasn't interested in any kind of "alone time" or "away time" in any kind of way... she found it deeply threatening and distressing. Good times.

Yeah, that's it exactly. THat sounds a lot like my ex-friend. I actually get the impression that she has used "introvert" as a sort of simile for "bad attitude" and "anti-social". She'd go on about "I'm an introvert so people just don't understand me", but glomming onto certain people and being hostile towards others (or sometimes glomming and being hostile to the same person) does not an introvert make.

I honestly think this girl corresponds most to ENFP but like I said, it's hard to tell if someone is obviously quite disturbed. Certainly, she'd seem threatened by me not paying constant attention to her (though before I phased her out completely out of despair, I was already ignoring her texts and calls a lot more and that sort of thing) and she'd do things like put her arm through mine (she would literally cling physically to me so hard that I sometimes had to practically break her fingers to get her to let go) and then when I'd try to gently ease mine away she'd be like "YOU'RE REJECTING ME!!! I'VE BEEN ALONE AND REJECTED MY WHOLE LIFE AND THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE!!!". You know, reacting like I'd tried to throw her under a train and run away, instead of wanting some natural personal space and not wanting my boundaries violated. (No comprehension at all of personal boundaries - that seems to be another characteristic.)

I really do want to know how all this seems related to "Introvert".

 

[Maxcool131]

People with BPD are supposed to make frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, engage in risky and/or suicidal behaviour, have trouble with their identity, poor emotional regulation etc. How are these introvert characteristics, or what other BPD characteristics are supposed to be introvert-like? I really don't get that.

I have until recently (when I couldn't take it any more) dealt a lot with someone who at least has BPD-like characteristics and was pretty obsessed with me. I dealt with stalking behaviours, inappropriate anger, efforts to appropriate my personality (ie. adopting all my interests, dressing like me, acting like my friends were all her friends, etc etc). I think she is either an outgoing INFP, or a withdrawn ENFP, but it is hard to tell when someone is plainly mentally ill. She was always going on about being an introvert - but then, she also seemed to think that the way to become friends with people was to force herself into their life and force them to spend time with her, which doesn't seem all that introverted. (She also does a lot of random interaction on the internet, being aggressive and starting arguments, that kind of thing.)

So, I don't know. But I really don't think that BPD makes you look like an introvert or vice versa.

What I mean and maybe I should of explained this better but what I meant was how they answered questions because to me they could answer in the same way a Introvert or Extrovert would in certain areas and maybe even certain introvert types such as a intj or w/e so then they could get misinterpreted as a Introvert but in all reality be Extrovert or vice versa

 

[Maxcool131]

The woman I was engaged to (a bazillion years ago) seemed to be vaguely XSFP. I think it's a little difficult to imagine a BPD loner because of the need to be glommed onto someone else. My fiancée certainly wasn't interested in any kind of "alone time" or "away time" in any kind of way... she found it deeply threatening and distressing. Good times.

If there goal is to avoid rejection wouldnt it make sense to be alone? If your distrustful and in general have had bad experiences with people why engage with them? http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/interviewg.htm read this http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/facts.htm and this

 

[SilkRoad]

The goal seems to be to fill the emptiness inside/the lack of personal identity by glomming onto others in a really hardcore way. Then you try to avoid rejection by frantically pursuing the person (stalking, jealousy, imitating, etc) and trying to force them to remain in your life. Not so much by shutting yourself away from people altogether... Not from the experience I now have with (at least) BPD-style behaviours, or from anything I've heard from people who have dealt with it.

Cutting off from other people entirely sounds more avoidant or extremely introverted.

 

[Maxcool131]

The goal seems to be to fill the emptiness inside/the lack of personal identity by glomming onto others in a really hardcore way. Then you try to avoid rejection by frantically pursuing the person (stalking, jealousy, imitating, etc) and trying to force them to remain in your life. Not so much by shutting yourself away from people altogether... Not from the experience I now have with (at least) BPD-style behaviours, or from anything I've heard from people who have dealt with it.

Cutting off from other people entirely sounds more avoidant or extremely introverted.

That is only one aspect of the disorder and seems to be the most common but there is different manifestations of the disorder.

 

[SilkRoad]

Ok... I'm really not sure what you're asking though. Are you asking how someone with BPD would look/act if they were really withdrawn?

 

[scriabin221]

We don't know how a person would be if there was no BPD. Perhaps if the disorder were not present there would be more introverted tendencies. That being said, I've never met a person (and god knows I've known some) with BPD who I would consider an introvert.

 

[INTP]

one study concluded these correlations:

** = clear correlation, * = some correlation, no * is no correlation. - score means the dimension on the left and positive on the right
(antisocial = NTP and no I/E correlation)

jungian analyst concluded these:

and one study saw these correlations using big5

and to get some idea how this relates to MBTI, big 5 correlates to MBTI dimensions as such:
F = high agreeableness, T naturally is low on this
N = high openness, S low on this
E = extraversion, I low on this
J = conscientiousness, P low on this
Neuroticism is not correlated

 

[keene]

Reply to old post: Introverts would be the ideal candidate for becoming glommed onto someone else because they have one-on-one relationships. In fact, one has to be an EXTREME INTROVERT to become glommed onto another. So, your fiance was right!

 

[Ashtart]

Just like Bipolar Disorder, people who suffer from BPD struggle with introversion/extraversion. These people have (sometimes) long episodes of extreme introversion (depression and the like), and episodes charged with extrovert tendencies (manias). J/P is also really difficult to type because the person may quite often feel trapped and unable to act, procrastinate everything and bounce back and fort from one activity to another, looking like a heavy-P person even though they are more J and that's only their anxiety acting. F/T may be of some difficult too, those may be overly emotional, don't have much emotional stability and because they are completely controlled by their emotions one may judge that they are F types, but when taking medications properly or in a more upbeat state, they can appear as cold Thinkers. It is really hard to type someone with these illness because you can't know for sure if that's how they truly are or more just like a reflex of their current mood swing. If the illness is very strong, it is even harder and many times systems like MBTI, Socionics etc don't even apply to those people.

 

[Norexan]

one study concluded these correlations:
]


and to get some idea how this relates to MBTI, big 5 correlates to MBTI dimensions as such:
F = high agreeableness, T naturally is low on this
N = high openness, S low on this
E = extraversion, I low on this
J = conscientiousness, P low on this
Neuroticism is not correlated

E = extroversion
N is somewhat correlate high openness
F is not agreeableness defiantly.
J is not conscientiousness, , although it has some correlation.

 

[ChocTiramisu]

BPD has nothing to do with extroversion or introversion. At the core is abandonment issues and lack of bonding/attachment of a child at an early age. It's very difficult to treat.

 

[Mr Troll]

I think you can correlate enneagram and PDs much better. It has 3 clusters and 9 types.

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

On the "Celebrity Types" website, there is a mild correlation stated (in the author's opinion, of course) for ENFP and Borderline Personality Disorder.