• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[NT] Iq tests naturally favor Intj over Intp?

Maxcool131

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
89
MBTI Type
Intp
Enneagram
5w6
As I was at a birthday party today I was thinking about intelligence tests and whether they really are accurate (the pattern based tests online only ones I am familiar with I have a general idea of the ones that psychologists make) and started thinking about how iq testing is supposed to be. But I think this is inadequate for intps because of several reasons 1: Intps tend to not to do well under stress and I think the idea of finishing any test in a certain amount of time is stress inducing and tends to screw up our creative juices which is our natural talent and helps us. 2: We have to concentrate on one single thing which as most of us know restricts us seeing as we our more a architect personality then a specialist. 3: Its timed so our reflection period is limited which is something a intp needs to come up with to make what they assume as a good decision.4:We hate being stuck in a box we approach things from outside the box (overused statement I know) and usually make up our own answer that fits to our usually unconventional thought patterns and so having to pick from 4 already pre-conceived answers seem to inhibit us even more. If there other threads that have been like this I am sorry and if you disagree please place your reason below and if you agree point what you agree with. Also this was just a general thought not something I have studied or looked into. If I need to be clarified on the subject please place below as well and point which part needs to clarified. :hi:
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
1. How is your IQ supposed to be tested otherwise? Measuring (your intelligence) implies the idea of a test. Even if, say, someone came up with a less "invasive" method, the subjects (INTPs) would still be aware of the fact that they are tested, which would probably still result in stress. Learning how to cope with stress is a requirement in many situations, not an option, therefore not being able to do that can be translated into a lack of adaptability. Following the same train of thought, you could say that every sort of test in school is inadequate and, while I have many reasons to dislike the educational system in my country, at least, I don't think there is any better way to assess someone's knowledge or intelligence. "Creative juices"? Let's suppose someone's testing your knowledge of American history. Do you need to be particularly creative? In an IQ test, maybe it plays a bigger role, since you have to "figure some things out". Since we're in the "school" section, one could argue that students are under stress when supervised. Why this idea has no practical support is beyond the obvious.

However, I personally can't think of a more INTP-favourable way of testing one's IQ. You may be very creative and have an architect personality, yet these are not the aspects that an IQ test measures. It measures your speed of thinking because, given enough time, many would be able to solve many of the questions there, which would make the differences between people fade. You could imagine it as running a 400 metres distance. Everyone can do it, provided they have enough time (I know the comparision's a bit forced, but it's supposed to reflect the idea that smart people get things faster). Whether or not IQ test accurately measure one's intelligence is another thing.

PS: I like what you think about at birthday parties.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
IQ tests seem to favor INTJs and ISTJs.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
1: Intps tend to not to do well under stress and I think the idea of finishing any test in a certain amount of time is stress inducing and tends to screw up our creative juices which is our natural talent and helps us.

I don't agree with that. Why would an INTP have any harder time with stress than anyone else? I also think INTJs are pretty creative and that Ti would give the INTP an advantage because IQ tests are sort of a lot of puzzles anyway. An INTJ doesn't have the patience to deal with the linear thought pattern required to solve those puzzles.

2: We have to concentrate on one single thing which as most of us know restricts us seeing as we our more a architect personality then a specialist.

I have to concentrate on one thing at a time too.

3: Its timed so our reflection period is limited which is something a intp needs to come up with to make what they assume as a good decision.

I see no reason why an INTP would be any better or worse off then another type INTJ, INFJ, ENFP or any other.

4:We hate being stuck in a box we approach things from outside the box (overused statement I know) and usually make up our own answer that fits to our usually unconventional thought patterns and so having to pick from 4 already pre-conceived answers seem to inhibit us even more.

So you think INTPs have more unconventional thought patterns than INTJs? I know Ne is all over the place but look at Ni.
 

Maxcool131

New member
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
89
MBTI Type
Intp
Enneagram
5w6
1. How is your IQ supposed to be tested otherwise? Measuring (your intelligence) implies the idea of a test. Even if, say, someone came up with a less "invasive" method, the subjects (INTPs) would still be aware of the fact that they are tested, which would probably still result in stress. Learning how to cope with stress is a requirement in many situations, not an option, therefore not being able to do that can be translated into a lack of adaptability. Following the same train of thought, you could say that every sort of test in school is inadequate and, while I have many reasons to dislike the educational system in my country, at least, I don't think there is any better way to assess someone's knowledge or intelligence. "Creative juices"? Let's suppose someone's testing your knowledge of American history. Do you need to be particularly creative? In an IQ test, maybe it plays a bigger role, since you have to "figure some things out". Since we're in the "school" section, one could argue that students are under stress when supervised. Why this idea has no practical support is beyond the obvious.

However, I personally can't think of a more INTP-favourable way of testing one's IQ. You may be very creative and have an architect personality, yet these are not the aspects that an IQ test measures. It measures your speed of thinking because, given enough time, many would be able to solve many of the questions there, which would make the differences between people fade. You could imagine it as running a 400 metres distance. Everyone can do it, provided they have enough time (I know the comparision's a bit forced, but it's supposed to reflect the idea that smart people get things faster). Whether or not IQ test accurately measure one's intelligence is another thing.

PS: I like what you think about at birthday parties.
Ty I enjoy my thoughts at Birthday Parties :p You could imagine it as running a 400 metres distance. Everyone can do it, provided they have enough time. But the idea the Intp had at first could have been right and the fact that the time might affect there iq because we reflect more doesnt help us on this however in real life it might. Every thing else I pretty much agree with it I just think its in adequate for intps but if you have to test iq thats the only way I guess cant think of another way.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't agree. I think It favors Ti+Ne much more instead of Ni-Te, since a large part of IQ tests is the kind of spatial awareness puzzles that are specifically easy for Ne users and Ti is obviously going to be a nice asset for IQ tests.

It is for this reason I don't put much stock in IQ tests as per measuring someones overall intelligence. It just measures a few aspects of intelligence that certain personality types will find easier than others. But to me intelligence is a much broader subject, not to mention the ability to use intelligence properly should also be considered a great factor in someones overall intelligence. That is something I see INTP's lack most of the times, regardless of their IQ. :p
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
Ty I enjoy my thoughts at Birthday Parties :p You could imagine it as running a 400 metres distance. Everyone can do it, provided they have enough time. But the idea the Intp had at first could have been right and the fact that the time might affect there iq because we reflect more doesnt help us on this however in real life it might. Every thing else I pretty much agree with it I just think its in adequate for intps but if you have to test iq thats the only way I guess cant think of another way.

INTJs, too, reflect a hell of a lot. I do, however, see your point.
Also, one could accuse IQ tests of favouring NTs over NFs, for example. And that's...preposterous.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I don't agree. I think It favors Ti+Ne much more instead of Ni-Te, since a large part of IQ tests is the kind of spatial awareness puzzles that are specifically easy for Ne users and Ti is obviously going to be a nice asset for IQ tests.

It is for this reason I don't put much stock in IQ tests as per measuring someones overall intelligence. It just measures a few aspects of intelligence that certain personality types will find easier than others. But to me intelligence is a much broader subject, not to mention the ability to use intelligence properly should also be considered a great factor in someones overall intelligence. That is something I see INTP's lack most of the times, regardless of their IQ. :p

This was exactly my thinking as well. This link seems to debunk my theory about IQ though the sources aren't referenced.
 

Rasofy

royal member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,881
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Unlikely. Ti is pretty much the most useful function to judge the logical validity of a proposition. To judge its usefulness, not so much. But who cares? As long as we beat the INTJs... :thumbup:
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This was exactly my thinking as well. This link seems to debunk my theory about IQ though the sources aren't referenced.

Yeah well, for one you'd need to have a very large pool of people participating in the tests (at least in the thousands to get anywhere near accurate results). Secondly you need to have all those people undergo seriour testing as to their personality types by professionals (we both know many people mistype themselves after all, especially at first. :p ). And every person taking the test should be under the same, or similar conditions. Well fed and rested and able to concentrate to the best of their ability.

Unless they had some serious funds in order to create a valid test pool with all neccesary safeguards to counteract any possibly misinformation, I wouldn't trust numbers like that. It is more likely those numbers came from an internet IQ test where people had to type in their MBTI in one of the fields. Which creates a whole array of factors that should be considered as well. What was the situation the person taking the test found himself in? Did he take the test at 3am at night after a long day of work being sleep deprived or was he refreshed. Did he take the test seriously or just went through it half cocked? Was he even typed correctly?

Unless a site like that discloses its sources, I wouldn't put much stock at all in its results. :tongue:
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This study seems to have a bit more meat to it. It says high IQ is related to I, N, T, and P.
 

Rasofy

royal member
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,881
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
[MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION] once mentioned something about it... can't remember the details but his overall conclusion was that INTPs tend to score a bit better than INTJs (which tend to rank second).
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
This study seems to have a bit more meat to it. It says high IQ is related to I, N, T, and P.

At least they focus on explaining how the studies were done, and it seems to be done quite professionally at that, yes.
 
G

Ginkgo

Guest
Reasonable awareness of what one has accomplished and what one can accomplish is a more valid indicator of overall intelligence, methinks. In a manner of speaking, one is most intelligent when they've solved the problem of their own intelligence.
 

UniqueMixture

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
3,004
MBTI Type
estj
Enneagram
378
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think instead of focusing on IQ it would help to focus on intelligence building excercises. There are several different types of memory for example and the tasks that help develop each are different. Puzzles, reading, crosswords, strategic games like chess, etc all help us excercise our minds so that we can have mental fitness.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think instead of focusing on IQ it would help to focus on intelligence building excercises. There are several different types of memory for example and the tasks that help develop each are different. Puzzles, reading, crosswords, strategic games like chess, etc all help us excercise our minds so that we can have mental fitness.

To Ti-Ne users, the world is one big puzzle though. We don't need to lay out a boardgame to engage our mind, we just need to open our eyes. :D
 

Daemon Corax

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
70
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp
I think instead of focusing on IQ it would help to focus on intelligence building excercises. There are several different types of memory for example and the tasks that help develop each are different. Puzzles, reading, crosswords, strategic games like chess, etc all help us excercise our minds so that we can have mental fitness.

I wouldn't necessarily relate memory to intelligence. Also, when done repeatedly, many "tasks" have less effect (for instance, sudoku doesn't help you build your intelligence when you're past the phase of learning it and perhaps struggling with the more difficult grids). Reading helps you gain knowledge and develop a more complex outlook on life, if you will, or on the many aspects of it. I don't think it is strictly correlated with intelligence, either. My two pennies' worth.
 

UniqueMixture

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Messages
3,004
MBTI Type
estj
Enneagram
378
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
To Ti-Ne users, the world is one big puzzle though. We don't need to lay out a boardgame to engage our mind, we just need to open our eyes. :D

Yes and it is a great gift that can leave one feeling filled with awe and wonder. However, by focusing so strongly on solving the puzzle one can forget that life is a sensual experience to be enjoyed through tactile sensation as well ;)

I wouldn't necessarily relate memory to intelligence. Also, when done repeatedly, many "tasks" have less effect (for instance, sudoku doesn't help you build your intelligence when you're past the phase of learning it and perhaps struggling with the more difficult grids). Reading helps you gain knowledge and develop a more complex outlook on life, if you will, or on the many aspects of it. I don't think it is strictly correlated with intelligence, either. My two pennies' worth.

I would like to challenge that view!

http://www.livescience.com/6519-simple-memory-test-predicts-intelligence.html

http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~psxko/Oberauer.et-al.PsychBull.2005.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2485208/
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Yes and it is a great gift that can leave one feeling filled with awe and wonder. However, by focusing so strongly on solving the puzzle one can forget that life is a sensual experience to be enjoyed through tactile sensation as well ;)

I don't see the appeal of that. I much rather stick to my Ti+Ne thank you very much! To each their own. :tongue:
 
Top