[ENTP] Need some advice on 'unhealthy' ENTP brother.

[Fluffywolf]

Okay, I'm starting to get a little bit concerned, because I work with my brother daily, and lately his health has started to physically decline from his bad habits. And he's stubborn as a mule so no one, not even an INTP like me, seems to be able to reach him.

I thought he would work things out if things get to bad, but clearly that's not going to happen.

For years he has had terrible sleeping patterns, rarily eats anything before 6pm, and only little for dinner, he can be quite stressed out and depressed quite a lot. But he is also extremely stubborn. Lately, like the past few weeks, his health has been in steady decline, the symptoms are worsening, seems to have a low tolerance and weak immune system, just barely did we manage to force him to go to the hospital to check up on the pain he had in his intestines, which is likely to be kidney stones or a liver problem.

He doesn't drink anymore, much like me. Perhaps he should though, but anyways. I am stubborn too and can't boast living an extemely healthy lifestyle myself, but when I start to notice I feel weaker, or sickly, I adjust my diet and lifestyle accordingly in order to battle that. Plus, I haven't been ill (apart from some minor ailments) for like 12 years now, so I must be doing something right.. But more and more, he just seems to want to feel sick.

I, and others around him, have tried reasoning with him. Ignoring him. Calling him out on his behaviour. But nothing seems to reach him. It's like he is completely closed off to other peoples influence.

Now I'm not exactly the most caring person when it comes to my brother as he is doing this to himself. And if he wants to kill himself, he can go ahead and do it. But I don't think that is his intention at all, but effectively that is what he is doing. although very slowly.

He seems to be addicted to (ibuprofen) painkillers. 5 to 6 400mg pills before his first meal every day seems to be the norm.

His girlfriend (INFJ) is suffering quite a bit because of it too, and although I've told her she should cut her losses and leave him, as I too feel sorry for her situation, she seems unable to do so.



Anyone, ENTP's or otherwise, have experience with people or have been in similar situations themselves that have any advice on how we can deal with his issues?


His job isn't even very stressful. He drops in at work at around 10am, drinks coffee until 11, handles some emails and phonecalls, takes a break from 12pm to 1pm, does some administration work, procrastinates some more with as excuse to be talking to co-workers, does some more email work, bitches at some people for not doing the things he has on his mind at his personal whim, has a moment of clarity where he suddenly appears normal and kind, although not talking about anything work related. Hangs around a bit and goes home at 6pm. That;s all he needs to do. But lately, he has been procrastinating at work to the point of sticking in the office until late like 10/11pm, probably to avoid going home, claiming to be extremely busy. But yesterday when he was going to the hospital, I did his job and finished it in like 3 hours and had plenty of time to focus on my own things as well. And coming off stressed more often, bitching more often. Although everyday he still has that moment where he is suddenly perfectly normal for a short period of time. Like nothing has happened.


He's basicly House, but without the genius.

 

[PeaceBaby]

How old is he, Fluffy?

 

[Circle]

Perhaps you could write a note that you're concerned. But, otherwise, you might consider letting go of the need to make sure he's better. If you embody healthy behavior yourself, then you at least can be this change that you would like to see in your brother. Fundamentally, you probably cannot make someone take care of themselves and even if you could, should that be your responsibility? But, you can avoid being hurt by the decisions of others by letting go of the need make sure they're okay.

Your brother is responsible for him as you are for you. One person's well-meaning concern is another person's meddling.

Good luck to you and your brother. I trust that things will improve for you.

 

[Fluffywolf]

How old is he, Fluffy?

30.

Perhaps you could write a note that you're concerned. But, otherwise, you should let go of the need to make sure he's better. If you embody healthy behavior yourself, then you at least can be this change that you would like to see in your brother. Fundamentally, you cannot make someone take care of themselves. But, you can avoid being hurt by the decisions of others by letting go of the need make sure they're okay.

Your brother is responsible for him as you are for you. One person's well-meaning concern is another person's meddling.

Good luck to you and your brother. I trust that things will improve for you.

That may be true and well and I would love to agree with you on that (in fact, in most situations I would). But working together in a family company, there are interests that require this to be solved, or at the very least controlled. It has now gone past the point where I believe a sane person would realize things really need to change. And still he keeps on stubbornly declining. There will come a point where I will have to put an end to it, and that may result in serious change for us both. And quite frankly, I quite like my position as it is at the moment.

Not to mention his relationship probably bearing the brunt of his self-destructive nature.

 

[Circle]

That may be true and well and I would love to agree with you on that (in fact, in most situations I would). But working together in a family company, there are interests that require this to be solved, or at the very least controlled. Not to mention his relationship probably bearing the brunt of his self-destructive nature.

That is an interesting wrinkle. I wonder if there is a structure in your family business wherein this problem could be brought to all parties involved in the business and discussed openly and without judgment. It might be as simple as getting the other members of the company management involved and discussing a need for a discussion with your brother. The discussion could be based simply on your concerns. As long as you keep it to your concerns, then you avoid the potential of blaming or controlling. Your brother may have some insights for you. Perhaps it would be helpful to engage a profession third party.

His relationship is probably none of your business and if it were me I would avoid getting involved in that aspect of it. Scrupulously recognizing boundaries may be helpful here.

 

[Fluffywolf]

That is an interesting wrinkle. I wonder if there is a structure in your family business wherein this problem could be brought to all parties involved in the business and discussed openly and without judgment. It might be as simple as getting the other members of the company management involved and discussing a need for a discussion with your brother. The discussion could be based simply on your concerns. As long as you keep it to your concerns, then you avoid the potential of blaming or controlling. Your brother may have some insights for you.

His relationship is probably none of your business and if it were me I would avoid getting involved in that aspect of it. Scrupulously recognizing boundaries may be helpful here.

All parties being my father, brother and me.

He avoids all discussions regarding the issue, shrugging it off everytime. Explaining there is nothing wrong. Even though five minutes later he'll complain of stomach pains or headaches or whatever ailment he can think up at the time that he feels he hasn't overused too much recently. I fear the next discussion will have to be one of termination.

As for his relationship, his girlfriend is often found at my sisters or parents place, crying her heart out. She calls out to us, I would not dare meddle in his relationship, in fact I couldn't care less, but if his girlfriend ask me that she doesn't know what to do anymore, I will tell her she should dump him and get on with it. I don't see that as meddling.

 

[Circle]

All parties being my father, brother and me.

He avoids all discussions regarding the issue, shrugging it off everytime. Explaining there is nothing wrong. Even though five minutes later he'll complain of stomach pains or headaches or whatever ailment he can think up at the time that he feels he hasn't overused too much recently. I fear the next discussion will have to be one of termination.

As for his relationship, his girlfriend is often found at my sisters or parents place, crying her heart out. She calls out to us, I would not dare meddle in his relationship, in fact I couldn't care less, but if his girlfriend ask me that she doesn't know what to do anymore, I will tell her she should dump him and get on with it.

That's a pity. If his conduct is interfering with the business, then perhaps more serious consequences are in order. I don't envy your position. But, I find that getting some distance from family, especially in the workplace, can actually improve relationships and health. I would have trouble working with my family. Termination may not be as bad as all that, is all I am saying.

Your brother's girlfriend is bringing you into things by asking for advice. I have no advice. But, I do know that for me I never want to get involved or in the middle of what is happening with another couple. It is a perilous prospect.

 

[WALMART]

Let him die.


That's what I'd want, lol.

 

[Circle]

Let him die.


That's what I'd want, lol.

That makes me want to hug you, my friend.

 

[Fluffywolf]

That's a pity. If his conduct is interfering with the business, then perhaps more serious consequences are in order. I don't envy your position. But, I find that getting some distance from family, especially in the workplace, can actually improve relationships and health. I would have trouble working with my family. Termination may not be as bad as all that, is all I am saying.

Your brother's girlfriend is bringing you into things by asking for advice. I have no advice. But, I do know that for me I never want to get involved or in the middle of what is happening with another couple. It is a perilous prospect.

Creating distance isn't a problem for me and I don't mind taking on his workload either for a time. I would lie if this doesn't somewhat stress me out, but still only a little. I can handle him and take on his workload whenever needed without feeling stressed about it, that's not the issue. But I do have to trust him to do his job proper when he does work. And right now, he just isn't reliable. And the solution seems so simple to me. Force yourself to eat some breakfast, do a little bit of sports, eat some fruit and sleep 6 hours a day consistently and get out of bed in time And stop swallowing ibuprofen like they're m&m's.. If he would do just that, I bet it would probably solve the whole issue. It seems just sad that it has to break on something so stupid.

But I am at a loss on how to convince him of this. As I said, I've said it and others as well, plenty of times to his face. all of these points. But he knows 'better'.

Let him die.


That's what I'd want, lol.

You want to die? Or you'd want to let him die if he was your brother? Subtle difference.

 

[Circle]

Creating distance isn't a problem for me and I don't mind taking on his workload either for a time. I would lie if this doesn't somewhat stress me out, but still only a little. I can handle him and take on his workload whenever needed without feeling stressed about it, that's not the issue. But I do have to trust him to do his job proper when he does work. And right now, he just isn't reliable. And the solution seems so simple to me. Force yourself to eat some breakfast, do a little bit of sports, eat some fruit and sleep 6 hours a day consistently and get out of bed in time And stop swallowing ibuprofen like they're m&m's.. If he would do just that, I bet it would probably solve the whole issue. It seems just sad that it has to break on something so stupid.

But I am at a loss on how to convince him of this. As I said, I've said it and others as well, plenty of times to his face. all of these points. But he knows 'better'.

It is difficult to convince anyone of anything. The business part is easy. Agree on a course with the other partners (or just your father). If your brother fails to keep up his end, let him go. There's nothing that says you can't welcome him back if things change.

 

[Fluffywolf]

It is difficult to convince anyone of anything.

Agreed, but in my experience, this should not be something that would need convincing. He is smart enough to realize this for himself, but for some reason he just closes himself off from that realization.

Oh well, if anything, at least I got to vent my frustrations here for the day. For now we'll have to wait for results from hospital anyway, he has to get an echo made on monday and prolly finds out what his physical illness is. Which I'm suspecting is nothing but a construct of the mind, but until proven otherwise I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Circle]

Agreed, but in my experience, this should not be something that would need convincing. He is smart enough to realize this for himself, but for some reason he just closes himself off from that realization.

Oh well, if anything, at least I got to vent my frustrations here for the day. For now we'll have to wait for results from hospital anyway, he has to get an echo made on monday and prolly finds out what his physical illness is. Which I'm suspecting is nothing but a construct of the mind, but until proven otherwise I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hang in there. I hope everything works out well for you.

 

[WALMART]

That makes me want to hug you, my friend.

It's not that I want to die.

It's that I understand where he is coming from.


Like you've said, Fluffywolf, he knows better. How can you teach a man any more about what he already knows?

 

[Fluffywolf]

It's not that I want to die.

It's that I understand where he is coming from.


Like you've said, Fluffywolf, he knows better. How can you teach a man any more about what he already knows?

He can be, or at least act, more responsible for one. Instead its like he just admits defeat. That's a no-no in my book.

 

[WALMART]

He can be, or at least act, more responsible for one. Instead its like he just admits defeat. That's a no-no in my book.

It's easier that way =P

 

[Fluffywolf]

It's easier that way =P

Well, he wouldn't be ENTP if he didn't always choose the easy way out of things. He's remarkably good at that too. But being in his position, it comes with certain minimal requirements (which quite frankly, we've been very generous with to him). Most of the time, he barely meets that set of requirements, and lately have had instances where he lacked.

I completely understand picking the easy way out, but there's a point where being too easy, becomes insurmountably hard. If he does his job and fixes his health, his life would be much easier than it is now.

Sometimes you make small sacrifices to gain a lot. He's not making those small sacrifices and misses out.

 

[WALMART]

Well, he wouldn't be ENTP if he didn't always choose the easy way out of things. He's remarkably good at that too. But being in his position, it comes with certain minimal requirements (which quite frankly, we've been very generous with to him). Most of the time, he barely meets that set of requirements, and lately have had instances where he lacked.

I completely understand picking the easy way out, but there's a point where being too easy, becomes insurmountably hard. If he does his job and fixes his health, his life would be much easier than it is now.

Sometimes you make small sacrifices to gain a lot. He's not making those small sacrifices and misses out.

I mean... would it though? He probably doesn't think so.

He probably thinks that whatever he's doing, whatever the condition, whatever the situation, he'll be okay and life will go on peachy enough.



But yeah, if people are relying on him for stuff, shame on him.

 

[Myrtle]

First off all I dont get the problem, What is he doing to you? Right now you seem like a lot of (ESXJ) colleges of mine telling me what I should eat, how often I should train, that i shouldent smoke cannabis, so on and so on.

Sure they might be right that fast food isen't the best, and that training 2 times a week isen't enough. However its none of their business. I never complain about them working slowly, or not being helpful, always complaining to me about other colleges, not being able to see the obvius solutions me having to explain every single detail to them. All of witch makes me have to work that much harder.

So I would hate it if you where giving pointers on my life, and if your ENTP brother is anything like me he probably hates it to.

What should be done is showing that you come from a loving place and that you're there for him and maybe ask him if he needs help. From your description he seems like me when im depressed witch happens from time to time when I get stuck in places, at first its hard to recognize (atleast for me) but after a while I realize it and plan my escape and get my vigor back.

ENTPs need someone positive that entertain their ideas, they hate being controlled. For me it shuts down my Ne and makes life dull and uninteresting where I plunge and have no energy. To escape this i usually change my environment to one where I get positivity and can entertain my ideas, luckily i have an ENTJ mother, an ENTJ father and an ENTP brother and an ENTP sister, aswell as an ESFJ brother whom is one of the few ESFJs that actually gets me and is able to support me in a positive way at the same time as he challenges me. Other then that i have some INFP, INTP and ENTJ friends. all of these people I've realized enhances my energy in a way i cannot do by myself. And most people out there are actually a buzzkill to me.

Ask hom general questions without judgement, what he wants from life, where he think he is, ehere he wants to go. Maybe hes seriosly depressed i dont know but people entertaining my future plans, projects and ideas gets me right back on track, people attacking me i just shut down or counterattack leaving me drained.

Peace!

 

[Fluffywolf]

First off all I dont get the problem, What is he doing to you? Right now you seem like a lot of (ESXJ) colleges of mine telling me what I should eat, how often I should train, that i shouldent smoke cannabis, so on and so on.

Sure they might be right that fast food isen't the best, and that training 2 times a week isen't enough. However its none of their business. I never complain about them working slowly, or not being helpful, always complaining to me about other colleges, not being able to see the obvius solutions me having to explain every single detail to them. All of witch makes me have to work that much harder.

So I would hate it if you where giving pointers on my life, and if your ENTP brother is anything like me he probably hates it to.

What should be done is showing that you come from a loving place and that you're there for him and maybe ask him if he needs help. From your description he seems like me when im depressed witch happens from time to time when I get stuck in places, at first its hard to recognize (atleast for me) but after a while I realize it and plan my escape and get my vigor back.

ENTPs need someone positive that entertain their ideas, they hate being controlled. For me it shuts down my Ne and makes life dull and uninteresting where I plunge and have no energy. To escape this i usually change my environment to one where I get positivity and can entertain my ideas, luckily i have an ENTJ mother, an ENTJ father and an ENTP brother and an ENTP sister, aswell as an ESFJ brother whom is one of the few ESFJs that actually gets me and is able to support me in a positive way at the same time as he challenges me. Other then that i have some INFP, INTP and ENTJ friends. all of these people I've realized enhances my energy in a way i cannot do by myself. And most people out there are actually a buzzkill to me.

Ask hom general questions without judgement, what he wants from life, where he think he is, ehere he wants to go. Maybe hes seriosly depressed i dont know but people entertaining my future plans, projects and ideas gets me right back on track, people attacking me i just shut down or counterattack leaving me drained.

Peace!

His health is declining, he calls in sick more often, he slacks at his job when he is in, he's failing at life in general. And at the same time he holds quite some company stock as well as a seperative branch of the family company. I wouldn't care if he was a toilet cleaner. But on a professional level, he holds a lot of my interests, and if he endgangers that, it's a huge problem. I don't care if he messes up his own shit and has to live on the streets, but if he messes up his shit and I have to live on the streets too, heads or going to roll.

Anyhow, little update, he's spent the entire day in the hospital with my mother (lol, can't go alone) and they've done extensive testing, couldn't find anything, tomorrow they'll do some more tests, but it looks like he has no serious condition.

Which makes it pretty clear that his physical symptoms or probably indeed purely from stress, and if that's true then he either gets his shit together within the next month or major changes will ensue.

What should be done is showing that you come from a loving place and that you're there for him and maybe ask him if he needs help. From your description he seems like me when im depressed witch happens from time to time when I get stuck in places, at first its hard to recognize (atleast for me) but after a while I realize it and plan my escape and get my vigor back.

Also, I know he is stressed out and depressed, but every attempt to normally communicate with him about it is immidiatly shot down and shrugged off, and has been for years now. Now that the decline is finally becoming an issue, he still would not listen to reason. Unfortunately, I can't give him more time. I don't care if he takes a long vacation, or just dissappears alltogether, as long as he does not mess up the business.

This is actually the second time I'm posting about my brother now, after last time things were better for a while, but don't think that will happen this time. He's being dragged around by my mom (who is convinced his symptoms are real) like a 4 year old kid that doesn't want to go. It's just degrading and I can't believe an ENTP would let it go so far.