[INTP] Could my marrige with an INTP be saved?

[Hopeless ISFJ]

Hello, everyone. I feel very desperate so I am asking INTP's help to see if my marriage can be saved, or even it is worth of any efforts.

I am an ISFJ, and my husband is an INTP. We dated for three years before getting married, and our marriage is a little over two years. When we were dating, we were living in the seperate cities which are less two hours by driving. We saw each other during weekends and holidays. We have many common interests, like hiking, camping, and travelling. I loved him very much because he was very intellegent, sincere and very highly educated. Before we got married, my husband got a job in a country on the other side of the world. I asked him that there were many temptations and how he could stay with me since we were not going to see each other often. He said he would be very busy with work and he wouldn't have time to persue other women. I knew he loved me when he asked me to marry him because when I worked around the house his eyes always followed me with the affection. I treat commitment very seriously and I thought he would do the same.

During the two years of marrige, we saw each other when traveling. Addition to that, I went to visit him three times and he came back once. Later on, he decided to move back. He also rejected a very good job opportunity because he thought he wanted to move back and stay with me.

Before he moved back, we decided to go on a long trip about a month. We planned this adventure for a few months. When I saw him in that trip, he was happy to see me, but he checked his emails a lot on his iPhone, and I wasn't happy for that. Of course, as an ISFJ, I didn't tell him how I feel when he was so obsessed with his phone. I just put up with it.

We had a great time in the trip. After he moved back, he went back to his old job and planned to live in his old city which is two hours away from me. He had to stay at my place for three weeks so he drove two hours to go to work. Sometimes he didn't need to go to work and he just stayed at home. Since he came back, he was still obsessed with his iPhone and totally ignored me. I didn't understand he needed space so I followed him whereever he was. I hugged him and kissed him. I told him I wanted some attentions. When I didn't receive any, I was emotional. I thought he finally moved back and would move again soon, there should be some emotions like needing each other, appreciating the time we were together. No. he wasn't like that. He was on his laptop a lot. If not laptop, he would be sleeping or on the iPhone.

I was too curious about what he was doing on his iPhone, so I checked his phone and laptop. I am not proud of this and I hated it when I had to do it.
It turned out that he communicated with a girl at his old job (the job in the faraway country). They were trading emails a lot. Even though none of them were about relationship, I still felt being cheated. They were talking on Skype for four hours when it was day time here and night time for the girl. The girl sent him many photos of herself. I questioned him. He said she was just a student and he was helping her with her project. It looked like he sent her emails when taking on a plane, landed somewhere, saw some interesting things during our last vacation. He didn't send me emails like that since we went our vacation from different area. I would have loved to know where he was.

I questioned him, so he knew I checked his emails. He wasn't mad, he said he wouldn't do that again. A few days later, I found he created another email account to chat with her.

He finally found a place to stay in the other city. On the day he left, I was emotional and questioning why he didn't give me any attentions and where our relationship were at. He told me that he never loved me. He was mad about losing the job opportunity because of me. He never told me he was mad about that before. He said he had to think about our marriage over. When we got married, he didn't think enough about career, family..

After he left, I experienced very difficult time. I sent him email and said it was marriage convenience when I sponsored him to come back and he left me right after that. (I truely believe he doesn't need to use me to come back because he is highly educated and can come back by himself.) I also ask him to discuss procedures and processes of divorce. He called me and asked to see me the following weekend. He came back and looked like he was the person I knew before. He said he couldn't focus on career these days because of the unstable private life, so he closed that email account and felt sorry about what he did to me. He said he wouldn't chat with her personally and they will just meet with a group for some work they are doing. I believed him. Before he left, we said love to each other. He said he liked my personality because I was nice to everyone. I am also the best choice as a mate because I am relaxed and can take care of people. He said he was attracted to career woman that was why he chatted with her, but two carreer poeple wouldn't have chance to stay together. They were in similar situation when both of them are changing career and they have many common interests. He said he was attracted to her and he thought she was attracted to him too. He loved me as a boyfriend and he still loved me as a husband.

However, I still feel he has feelings towards that woman. He asked me what love is. He said that I talked about love a lot. He also said "you feel the love when you lost someone". I think he meant by that woman. He was sad about losing her. Also, at night, when he was sleeping, I hear him saying her name. However, he said to me "you know nothing is going to happen before me and her, right?".

After he left, I found on the day he came back and apologized to me, he created another email account with Soul Mate as the name. I feel deeply hurt. I don't know if I should trust this guy anymore.

I do love him very much. I think during our seperation, we didn't have time to chat online that much or talk in person. I think I ignored him a little because of my busy schedule and since I knew he would move back. I want to save my marriage, but don't know how, or even it is worthy. I read that INTP are not cheaters but I am still afraid of being cheated if we ever get back together. Maybe I am not looking into the situation clearly. Any thoughts? Has he drifted away from me for too far?

Thanks,

 

[Rajah]

Obviously, this is all suspicious. If he respected you and your marriage, he'd cease communications with this girl immediately. That he's treating you unfairly. And that you know this.

What do you want to hear? If a friend wrote you this letter, what would you tell her? And will whatever we say change your mind?

 

[Anew Leaf]

Hello, everyone. I feel very desperate so I am asking INTP's help to see if my marriage can be saved, or even it is worth of any efforts.

I am an ISFJ, and my husband is an INTP. We dated for three years before getting married, and our marriage is a little over two years. When we were dating, we were living in the seperate cities which are less two hours by driving. We saw each other during weekends and holidays. We have many common interests, like hiking, camping, and travelling. I loved him very much because he was very intellegent, sincere and very highly educated. Before we got married, my husband got a job in a country on the other side of the world. I asked him that there were many temptations and how he could stay with me since we were not going to see each other often. He said he would be very busy with work and he wouldn't have time to persue other women. I knew he loved me when he asked me to marry him because when I worked around the house his eyes always followed me with the affection. I treat commitment very seriously and I thought he would do the same.

During the two years of marrige, we saw each other when traveling. Addition to that, I went to visit him three times and he came back once. Later on, he decided to move back. He also rejected a very good job opportunity because he thought he wanted to move back and stay with me.

Before he moved back, we decided to go on a long trip about a month. We planned this adventure for a few months. When I saw him in that trip, he was happy to see me, but he checked his emails a lot on his iPhone, and I wasn't happy for that. Of course, as an ISFJ, I didn't tell him how I feel when he was so obsessed with his phone. I just put up with it.

We had a great time in the trip. After he moved back, he went back to his old job and planned to live in his old city which is two hours away from me. He had to stay at my place for three weeks so he drove two hours to go to work. Sometimes he didn't need to go to work and he just stayed at home. Since he came back, he was still obsessed with his iPhone and totally ignored me. I didn't understand he needed space so I followed him whereever he was. I hugged him and kissed him. I told him I wanted some attentions. When I didn't receive any, I was emotional. I thought he finally moved back and would move again soon, there should be some emotions like needing each other, appreciating the time we were together. No. he wasn't like that. He was on his laptop a lot. If not laptop, he would be sleeping or on the iPhone.

I was too curious about what he was doing on his iPhone, so I checked his phone and laptop. I am not proud of this and I hated it when I had to do it.
It turned out that he communicated with a girl at his old job (the job in the faraway country). They were trading emails a lot. Even though none of them were about relationship, I still felt being cheated. They were talking on Skype for four hours when it was day time here and night time for the girl. The girl sent him many photos of herself. I questioned him. He said she was just a student and he was helping her with her project. It looked like he sent her emails when taking on a plane, landed somewhere, saw some interesting things during our last vacation. He didn't send me emails like that since we went our vacation from different area. I would have loved to know where he was.

I questioned him, so he knew I checked his emails. He wasn't mad, he said he wouldn't do that again. A few days later, I found he created another email account to chat with her.

He finally found a place to stay in the other city. On the day he left, I was emotional and questioning why he didn't give me any attentions and where our relationship were at. He told me that he never loved me. He was mad about losing the job opportunity because of me. He never told me he was mad about that before. He said he had to think about our marriage over. When we got married, he didn't think enough about career, family..

After he left, I experienced very difficult time. I sent him email and said it was marriage convenience when I sponsored him to come back and he left me right after that. (I truely believe he doesn't need to use me to come back because he is highly educated and can come back by himself.) I also ask him to discuss procedures and processes of divorce. He called me and asked to see me the following weekend. He came back and looked like he was the person I knew before. He said he couldn't focus on career these days because of the unstable private life, so he closed that email account and felt sorry about what he did to me. He said he wouldn't chat with her personally and they will just meet with a group for some work they are doing. I believed him. Before he left, we said love to each other. He said he liked my personality because I was nice to everyone. I am also the best choice as a mate because I am relaxed and can take care of people. He said he was attracted to career woman that was why he chatted with her, but two carreer poeple wouldn't have chance to stay together. They were in similar situation when both of them are changing career and they have many common interests. He said he was attracted to her and he thought she was attracted to him too. He loved me as a boyfriend and he still loved me as a husband.

However, I still feel he has feelings towards that woman. He asked me what love is. He said that I talked about love a lot. He also said "you feel the love when you lost someone". I think he meant by that woman. He was sad about losing her. Also, at night, when he was sleeping, I hear him saying her name. However, he said to me "you know nothing is going to happen before me and her, right?".

After he left, I found on the day he came back and apologized to me, he created another email account with Soul Mate as the name. I feel deeply hurt. I don't know if I should trust this guy anymore.

I do love him very much. I think during our seperation, we didn't have time to chat online that much or talk in person. I think I ignored him a little because of my busy schedule and since I knew he would move back. I want to save my marriage, but don't know how, or even it is worthy. I read that INTP are not cheaters but I am still afraid of being cheated if we ever get back together. Maybe I am not looking into the situation clearly. Any thoughts? Has he drifted away from me for too far?

Thanks,

In all honesty, it doesn't matter if he is an INTP or a fork... he sucks.

After reading through all of this, I don't understand why you would want to make this work. You deserve so much better than this behavior. He sounds incredibly immature and selfish.

I suggest you get a therapist, and a divorce. Stop overanalyzing everything you have done in an effort to find out where YOU went wrong. It isn't going to help your self esteem at all.

I wish I could give you the advice you are looking for... the magical key to make all of these wrongs right and stil have him. But that is not based on reality.

You really WILL be better off, even if right now you are in a sad place.


P.S. @Mods... My forum idea sounds pretty good doesn't it?

 

[Totenkindly]

On cell on a mountain somewhere, so can't type much.

But it sounds that, along with the typical isfj/intp problems, he's simply not that committed to you right now. He's realizing he wants competing things and can't have it all.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to decide whether or not you can accept his lack of prioritizing your marriage and are willing to run the risk of him dumping you or never investing more than he is now.

If you can't make rhe devision to end things now, set a deadline for yourself. If in three months or six or whatever, if you are still unhappy with things and he continues to not invest, revisit your decision to stay.

Good luck with everything.

 

[rav3n]

In short, I'd ditch the dude. Time and again, he's shown his lack of commitment where the only thing that scares him back is potential loss of citizenship.

 

[violaine]

You definitely can't trust him. He keeps making new email accounts to talk to another woman.

And did you say you had sponsored him by marrying him? If so, that would make me very suspicious as to his motives.

If it were me and I wanted to get to the heart of things, I would get marriage counseling with him. If he refuses, that's a good indication of unwillingness to work at your relationship. After these things happen in a relationship, a person needs to examine if the other person is still worthy of their love - rather than continuing to have feelings out of habit.

Are you two planning on living together? I think it's very hard to maintain a relationship at a distance. And especially when the trust has already been broken. I personally couldn't be with someone I didn't trust. Also, I'd be very wary as to if he is telling you the full truth about the woman he is talking to.

 

[Mad Hatter]

You mentioned two problems: a) Feeling that you're holding him back career-wise, and b) that other woman.

In regards to b), I agree with what others have said. Honestly, I don't think that something happened (physically) between the INTP and that woman, if he told you it didn't, and I'd agree that INTPs in general are not cheaters. I have nothing to back that up, just my gut feeling. However, and this is more important relationship-wise: There definitely is an emotional connection between that woman. Again, this would not be problematic in itself. But you said yourself that you're uncomfortable with it, and you told him - and he obviously didn't change his behavior, and I think that this is what speaks most strongly against him.
It's not indifelity, but apparent lack of commitment and willingness to compromise and adapt - maybe not in general, but a) on issues that matter to you and b) not to the degree with which you'll be satisfied.

As to this being an INTP-specific situation: It is well possible that his behavior is non even intentionally harmful or rude, but that he's just sort of oblivious to the whole situation. You have told him your problems, and he's probably understood them at some intellectual level, but can't really grasp what they mean, especially in a relationship context. (I'm aware that this doesn't excuse his behavior in the least, but maybe it helps to understand him a little better.)
It's quite possible that he doesn't know what he feels (I could relate to that, as it's very INTP-ish), and somehow tries to 'fly blind'. When you ask him how he feels about the situation, or himself, chances are that he's completely stumped and first and tries to figure out, by thinking, how he 'ought' to feel, which will probably be sort of exhausting for him, so give him a little time.

Try to give him some leeway, and try to not analyze every action of his within a relationship context - but within reason. I think your concerns are perfectly legitimate, and you have every reason to let him know about them.

The way I see it, you're marriage isn't a complete wreck, but if you continue, be prepared to get disappointed in the future, and as others have suggested, I think it would be a good idea to see a marriage counselor to see what can be done.

 

[Hopeless ISFJ]

Thanks all for your reply. It is difficult to see your comments, but I kind of knew that is where we are going. I had the sixth sense that I should leave him, but can't make up my mind. I don't think the marrige was solely because he wanted to move back since he had a better future in that country and much better pay. And it is not difficult for him to move back by himself. We discussed to move back because I wanted him to be back.

I didn't want to leave him because maybe we were separated for too long or maybe there is something missing in our marrige so he is seeking it from the other woman. I thought we should reconnect each other first and find out if we are indeed hopeless. However, maintaining a marrige is two people's job. He has to make an effort for it. I sent him an email two days ago and told him I won't get him deported, but just want to point out what he did to me is wrong. I hope he would tell me the truth after that. He said he was going to call me this weekend. Maybe the truth will come out. Maybe he will ask for divorce or maybe won't. He was still vey caring when he had full attention to me, and he was generally a very honest person. marriage counseling is a good idea. I will suggest that first. I waited him for so long and don't mind to have another months or two. I won't get my hope up and won't trust him so easily either.

Thank you all for your kindness.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Wow. Sorry you have to go through all that. I have my opinions but it's your marriage. Just don't take on more than you can handle. Don't feel bad about looking at his iPhone either.

 

[Tigerlily]

In all honesty, it doesn't matter if he is an INTP or a fork... he sucks.

Truth! MBTI is an indicator! Stop thinking that all types behave as one person! I'm not trying to insult anyone, but if you really think this, then you're not thinking well at all.

To the OP, you mentioned that he became a Citizen from marrying you. What country are you from?

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

I'm sure your INTP loves you if you're the one you INTP wants to be with, question is, do you want to be with your INTP? [MENTION=15861]Hopeless ISFJ[/MENTION]

 

[Lady_X]

i'm sorry but it doesn't sound like you two have had much togetherness through all of this.

i don't think his heart is where it needs to be to make it work.

my advice would be to say everything you need/want/feel and if he can't provide it then leave...without regret.

i would personally not even give him the opportunity but it sounds like you want to.

 

[INTP]

@op everything others said

Truth! MBTI is an indicator!

its an indicator because the assessment indicates towards jungian type, doesent determine your type(and results are written in simplistic way, so that everyone can understand it). the word indicator has nothing to do with indication of behavior.

 

[Totenkindly]

In regards to b), I agree with what others have said. Honestly, I don't think that something happened (physically) between the INTP and that woman, if he told you it didn't, and I'd agree that INTPs in general are not cheaters. I have nothing to back that up, just my gut feeling. However, and this is more important relationship-wise: There definitely is an emotional connection between that woman. Again, this would not be problematic in itself. But you said yourself that you're uncomfortable with it, and you told him - and he obviously didn't change his behavior, and I think that this is what speaks most strongly against him. It's not indifelity, but apparent lack of commitment and willingness to compromise and adapt - maybe not in general, but a) on issues that matter to you and b) not to the degree with which you'll be satisfied.

Yes, that was my perception too, if it matters.

He said he liked my personality because I was nice to everyone. I am also the best choice as a mate because I am relaxed and can take care of people. He said he was attracted to career woman that was why he chatted with her, but two carreer poeple wouldn't have chance to stay together. They were in similar situation when both of them are changing career and they have many common interests. He said he was attracted to her and he thought she was attracted to him too. He loved me as a boyfriend and he still loved me as a husband.

See, he seems to do a lot of rationalization and "sensible choices" at this point in his life. I think this is why he is vascilating. he sounds like a relationally young INTP to me. His brain is trying to rationalize whether a relationship is good for him and he tries to keep emotions out of that rationalization, but of course he can't; so then shortly after, he gets whomped by emotional intensity and desire for someone and gives the OTHER response, then his rational brain kicks back in and tries to get a hold of the situation and put emotions back in their place. He's going to need time to work through that mess and understand that relationships aren't really a "rational" brain process in terms of objectifying them and rationally having clear cause-effect in place. There's a strong emotional and personal/subjective desire part too, that he is susceptible to just from being human; I don't think he has embraced that yet and so his marriage is suffering this fallout until he figures it out.

 

[highlander]

If it were me and I wanted to get to the heart of things, I would get marriage counseling with him. If he refuses, that's a good indication of unwillingness to work at your relationship. After these things happen in a relationship, a person needs to examine if the other person is still worthy of their love - rather than continuing to have feelings out of habit.

Are you two planning on living together? I think it's very hard to maintain a relationship at a distance. And especially when the trust has already been broken. I personally couldn't be with someone I didn't trust. Also, I'd be very wary as to if he is telling you the full truth about the woman he is talking to.

I completely agree with all of that.

In all honesty, it doesn't matter if he is an INTP or a fork.

Right. Type has nothing to do with this.

Thanks all for your reply. It is difficult to see your comments, but I kind of knew that is where we are going. I had the sixth sense that I should leave him, but can't make up my mind. I don't think the marrige was solely because he wanted to move back since he had a better future in that country and much better pay. And it is not difficult for him to move back by himself. We discussed to move back because I wanted him to be back.

I didn't want to leave him because maybe we were separated for too long or maybe there is something missing in our marrige so he is seeking it from the other woman. I thought we should reconnect each other first and find out if we are indeed hopeless. However, maintaining a marrige is two people's job. He has to make an effort for it. I sent him an email two days ago and told him I won't get him deported, but just want to point out what he did to me is wrong. I hope he would tell me the truth after that. He said he was going to call me this weekend. Maybe the truth will come out. Maybe he will ask for divorce or maybe won't. He was still vey caring when he had full attention to me, and he was generally a very honest person. marriage counseling is a good idea. I will suggest that first. I waited him for so long and don't mind to have another months or two. I won't get my hope up and won't trust him so easily either.

Thank you all for your kindness.

He's not showing any interest in your marriage. He's not showing any respect for you. What makes this all the more bizarre is that you just got married. 2 years is not a very long time. There have been a lot of good suggestions here - give him a time limit, get a counselor, tell him what you need and if he can't give it to you then end it. I would do all three of those things and I would not wait for him to initiate. You need to take control of the situation.

 

[skylights]

First, I agree with highlander - time limit, counselor, and letting him know your needs.

Secondly, have you asked him what he thinks the iPhone woman is giving him that you are not? What is it about a "career woman" that attracts him? That is what I'd be curious about. What I have found is that sometimes in my relationships when I feel like I am missing something, I will turn elsewhere and focus on something that provides me with it. That has been another person before, but I have never longed for that other person in a romantic sense - maybe I just was getting deep theoretical conversation from them. It seems like he feels "disconnected" from you.

 

[skylights]

First, I agree with highlander - time limit, counselor, and letting him know your needs.

Secondly, have you asked him what he thinks the iPhone woman is giving him that you are not? What is it about a "career woman" that attracts him? That is what I'd be curious about. What I have found is that sometimes in my relationships when I feel like I am missing something, I will turn elsewhere and focus on something that provides me with it. That has been another person before, but I have never longed for that other person in a romantic sense - maybe I just was getting deep theoretical conversation from them. It seems like he feels "disconnected" from you.

I'm sorry you're having to go through this and I hope things work out for you both - even if not, you sound like a very sincere and sweet person, and I am sure you will thrive regardless.

 

[Fluffywolf]

In all honesty, it doesn't matter if he is an INTP or a fork... he sucks.

After reading through all of this, I don't understand why you would want to make this work. You deserve so much better than this behavior. He sounds incredibly immature and selfish.

I suggest you get a therapist, and a divorce. Stop overanalyzing everything you have done in an effort to find out where YOU went wrong. It isn't going to help your self esteem at all.

I wish I could give you the advice you are looking for... the magical key to make all of these wrongs right and stil have him. But that is not based on reality.

You really WILL be better off, even if right now you are in a sad place.


P.S. @Mods... My forum idea sounds pretty good doesn't it?

I have to agree here. INTP's in general are not cheaters. But this INTP is clearly struggling with how he should prioritize his life, unlike a healthy INTP that has his shit in order. Marriage is not something you can just put aside, it is something you are in together.

I don't doubt he is sincere in that he loves you. Him coming back all those times pretty much makes that a fact. But he is also misusing you. He is using you as his crutch.

 

[CzeCze]

[MENTION=15861]Hopeless ISFJ[/MENTION] I'm so sorry you're going through this right now. I echo some of the same sentiments other have said. Except I'm not so charitable. I know you are commited to this man and this marriage but with this new information and in light of his recent behavior, I would just cut to the chase and end it sooner than later. It seems clear to me that this man could only ever hurt you and leave you with, at best, a superficially acceptable marriage.

Do you really want to go through all the intense emotional work of counseling and relationship mending only to be left to wonder through the coming years about his commitment and REAL feelings for you? To be left with doubts about his actual motivations and if he is eventually going to meet another "more compatible woman"? To wonder when and with which "equally educated and career focused" female coworker he's going to have his next fantasy relationship with?

OMG, it sounds absolutely awful to me and I feel so much for you. If you were my friend, I would absolutely tell you to leave this man and not agonize over the "whys" and wonder what you could have done better or differently. I would really want you far away from this man. This is really about him and his issues and inability to have a functional relationship with a person that he's supposed to love.

Just leave him be.

An INFJ woman I dated told me this, and I think it is true across the board, "Once you tell someone they are not the one, you can NEVER go back". Your husband basically told you that you are NOT the one, in multiple ways, including telling you that he never loved you (which I think is one of the most selfish, bastardly things anyone can do), by asking for divorce, by cheating on you with an emotional affair and fantasizing about another woman, by physically leaving, etc. Just terrible, terrible, terrible.

You deserve SO MUCH BETTER than this and you WILL find better. I think perhaps 5 years with a man you sincerely thought you would be sharing the rest of you life with seems like too much of an investment to just "throw away". Particularly for an ISFJ. But, you did not throw this away. He did. Don't pick up the pieces at his request and try to put something back together from scraps. No matter how much your love or sense of duty to the relationship seems to tell you otherwise, do what's best for yourself. Not that I'm sympathetic to him, but this will also be much better for him in the long run and force him to grow up rather than blame you or use your relationship as a crutch.

I am also thinking with the great distance that has been a part of your relationship from the start that neither of you had a chance to see what "the long haul" was going to be like and were in a more idealized and prolonged "honeymoon phase". Your husband did you a favor by finally showing his true colors, and they are not pretty. He obviously bit off more than he could chew amongst other things and when faced with the spectre of a real relationship, living together 24/7, he freaked out and realized his feelings and commitment are no where near where even he thought they were.

So please, give him the divorce. This is NOT a man who is going to make you happy.

And, you deserve to be happy.

 

[figsfiggyfigs]

I don't have a CLUE how you put up with any of that. He's an idiot, and you need to move on. I agree with everyone, you deserve to be happy.