• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTP] INTP mistrust

nothappy

New member
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Messages
48
Outward appearance doesn't always reflect who you are on the inside. Unless you are crying.

I think people do think about what the answer is first, to confirm it's true to a certain extent. That's in a way seeking for security...;
you mistrust first, and then trust, after finding that it's a valid answer.
Some find security more quickly than others.
 

WillMagic

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
7
MBTI Type
INTP
I know that I get comments like "What's wrong?" all the time when I'm thinking. People say I look sad, when I'm totally fine, I'm just focused.

And yeah, the chit chat thing. If I'm in a group that is just talking about banal stuff, I find myself withdrawing from the conversation and/or stepping away.
 

Seanan

Procrastinating
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
954
MBTI Type
INTJ
To INTPs out there:

I have an INTP friend, and when I first met her, I had this strong impression she was mistrustful of everything and everyone, but only from something in her face, not her words or general attitude. Also, I had friends and family seeing her on photographs, and they all asked: "What's wrong with her ? She looks sad !" My sister even thought she was suicidal. I always had this weird compassion and love for her, feeling that she was carrying deep pains inside, but turns out she has a wonderful family, loves her siblings and had a very normal life.
When I told her about those impressions from people, she didn't say anything nor contradicted in any way. But she isn't generally melancholic or anything. Indifference is more her thing.

Here is a portrait I've painted of her so you can tell for yourself. The expression is quite natural. Those who mourn by ~KetsiaLessard on deviantART

What am I getting wrong or what is real about this ?

Very nice piece... you're quite talented.

Having painted my share of portraits, it appears to me the sole "sad" feature is the eyebrows. Some people have that supportive muscluture and doesn't mean she is actually sad. If you cover the eyebrows, you will see that her mouth actually turns up slightly and removes the "sadness." I've seen the same thing in those who's mouth naturally turn down but the eyebrows are usually more significant.
 

Colors

The Destroyer
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,276
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I don't mean to be harsh, but it does seem that perhaps you're romanticizing this "mistrust". I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but it seems to cheapen your friendship if you approach it in that manner.

... I can identify with what a lot of the INTXs have been saying on this thread. I've found in my friendships with female Fs that I'm not really good at expressing emotion in what might be considered a genuine way- what I feel, I generally verbalize or perform in a humorously exaggerated manner- which can be confused- for meanness when I'm neutral/apathetic and for flatness when I'm emotional.

I was going to say that all types can be mistrustful, but then I remembered the incredibly gullible ISFPs I've known.
 

spartan26

New member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
189
MBTI Type
INTP
Back on the topic of mistrust...

I find one of the things my INTP best friend (and an INTP ex boyfriend) have in common with SJ's I know is a sense of mistrust. I feel the two INFP's I know have this quality as well. It makes me think that it's stemming from Si - especially since in each instance of mistrust, it seems to be stemming from a past experience. Maybe a Si/Ne cycle where the options of what could happen based on what has happened turns into a mistrust of the unknown?

Thoughts?
Most INTP's behavior is going to be based on logic or that which can be proven. A person is not trustworthy based on wearing a uniform, having a high-up position in a company or having a ton of money. An INTP would find a person trustworthy because they've witnessed that person exhibit trustworthy traits. If you were to ask an INTP if he trusted Bob, he might say no. He may prolly answer, "It's not that I don't find him trustworthy, I just don't have enough data to base my conclusion one way or another."

INTP's will prolly be this way on a lot of issues, especially regarding the judgment of people. Having underdeveloped F's, INTP's will base a lot of their conclusions on what they believe are logcial conclusions when others acting out of their F is often alogical. "Sally didn't include me in the e-mail about changes to the proposal. Sally knows that I am the one who has to make the textual changes. Therefore, Sally wants me to fail."
++++++++

A better indication of mistrust would be seeing how the INTP speaks of and/or treats other people. Look for pattern or consistent behavior. Like it'd be more reasonable to assume distrust if an INTP is taking checks from everybody except Helen who has to pay with cash, than it would be to observe an INTP laughing and joking w/one person on a bus and then barely say two words to the next person who sits down and believe the INTP doesn't trust that second person. For example, it just could be the second actually makes the INTP more comfortable and allows for the INTP to zone out thinking of things.

People always want to make assumptions about me based on my appearance. One person will say I thought I was sad, another will say angry, another will say peaceful, yet another will say lost or lonely, it never ends. Generally, I'm fine. That's how I feel, fine. This doesn't seem to be good enough for some people, so they'll needle and prod until I tell them to leave me the F- alone. And then they're still convinced that something was the matter all along.

If your sullen INTP friend isn't looking for anything or asking for anything, I'd prolly say she's fine and you should just leave her alone. We actually like that very much.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
Klessard,

Seeing that you're an INFP, here's what I can suggest:

:D!!!
My dad and sister are INFP, and I suspect I have INFP tendencies too, but I definitely need closure and security of determined decisions. I am actually hurt by people who don't keep their word or say: "we'll see." I always see it as if they don't care enough to invest time and energy in it.

But thanks for all the tips. I don't like chit chat myself and love to speak of deep things (I'm INF, you know, I'm not superficial). But when I start talking deep with my INTP, she often just listens and doesn't participate much. We don't know and care about the same things, I guess.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
What I feel, I generally verbalize or perform in a [...] manner which can be confused [...] for flatness when I'm emotional.

I've had this impression with her, that when I was emotional and showing how much I cared, she would appear "flat," justement. I thought perhaps she was moved, only she didn't want me to see it, and would insist on looking independent and in total self-control.
NTs don't realize how NFs can be affected and insulted by this. It feels like trying to melt and iceberg.
But then again, I understand this attitude if they perceive it as the F trying to manipulate their emotions, because I detest it myself. I hope she never thought I was trying to manipulate her, because I wasn't. I was totally feeling what I was saying.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
INTP = Thought and emotion existing separately within the same head.

Mistrust? It's the question which drives us, the constant search, looking everywhere for the next clue or snippet of information. Of course we scowl... you try studying things in such minute detail and see how constipated an expression you get after a few years of it!!!

:)
 

Martoon

perdu fleur par bologne
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
1,361
MBTI Type
INTP
If you give her a hug, it's the weirdest thing ever. I don't know if you ever gave a hug to a plank (she's really thin on the top of that), but that's about what it feels like.
I think I may have just damaged a minor organ or two laughing. Thanks for the new sig material. Though I'm trying to decide between "Hug an INTP; it's the weirdest thing ever" or "Love an INTP; it's like hugging a plank."
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
I would say that you could avoid a lot of heartache by not expecting your INTP friend to be like you. I love my F friends, but it drives me crazy when they try to assign emotions to me that they feel like I must be repressing. One friend of mine was particularly bad about that. She'd project her emotions onto me. So if something annoyed me, and I was just venting or trying to get things out in order to frame them in my mind and get input from an outside source, she'd later tell someone that I seemed so hurt and angry about the issue. Nope. If I was hurt and angry, I'd probably go off somewhere by myself.

I have a couple of NFJ friends who constantly ask me questions. I know they're just trying to feel close to me and get to know me better, but it makes me feel like I'm on display or something. I tend to feel more comfortable sharing things about myself as they come up organically in the conversation. I don't like being asked a lot of personal questions or "feely" questions, b/c they make me feel weird.

I think if you just chill a bit and try not to expect your friend to act like you would, she'll eventually open up to you more. I really doubt she's got some deep seated, dark, sadness locked up inside. We really aren't as aware of our emotions as y'all are. They're kind of like white noise that you can't really pinpoint until you absolutely have to.
 

foodeater

New member
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
41
MBTI Type
PINT
I would like to say that I'm naturally trustful, but when I think about it I'm not. I don't trust people to do important things for me because "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself." I don't trust people to do things for me because in my mind they usually don't do it right. This includes handling emotion. My feelings won't disappear with a cliche quotes and heartfelt sympathies. I have to handle them myself or they won't be fixed. It's the same for the rest of my life too, really, which is bad because I procrastinate as long as possible but don't delegate very often...

I have an INFJ friend who I've gotten to know better recently and he always seems to be trying to figure me out. It's kind of uncomfortable sometimes, but whatever. I don't have much of a backstory, but if people want to imagine one it's not my problem. I usually fake emotion around an ISFJ friend of mine so he'll leave me alone.

But back to the point.. no dark backstory, just a less-than-neutral neutral face. When I'm in my thinking mode I don't pay attention to my body very much; however, when I'm pretending to think but really observing the events around me I can perfectly mimic my thinking face and stay under the radar. When I'm thinking I am totally focused on my internal world, but I can hop around from topic to topic while I'm in there and sometimes it's tough to stay on one track.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
I think I may have just damaged a minor organ or two laughing. Thanks for the new sig material. Though I'm trying to decide between "Hug an INTP; it's the weirdest thing ever" or "Love an INTP; it's like hugging a plank."

You should see my INTP friend with her "BULLY" t-shirt and her Hawaiian bermudas. It kills.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
Isolation and the need to feel connected

I wouldn't say that I'm mistrustful in many ways, just very reserved. That thought causes me to bring up the fact that a happy, loving home and good life means very little in certain circumstances. For the INTP (and, indeed, some other types) the sense of overwhelming isolation from the happiness around you can be pain in itself. It's not an emo statement, just the truth as I've seen: we're not built for simple happiness. Enthusiasm? Yes. Naivete? On occassion. Contentment? Rarely.

Happiness? Just isn't often in the cards. I'm rarely anguished... rarely much of anything too intense emotionally, but that sheer even keel can feel like a burden over time.

Overwhelming isolation ? That's very interesting.
I noticed how my friend tends to be interested in popular things sometimes(movies, music) that seem to contradict her style (she's quite a tomboy and went to see a Spice Girls show the other day) and often attends parties with friends, even if she stays in a corner of the room and only interacts with few people. I thought that was surprising coming from her, but I think it is her way to feel connected with people because of her inner isolation. When she attends a big concert with lots of people and later can talk to some more people about it, it allows her to connect.
I also notice that she won't talk to me about those things. Like she knows I understand and connect with her in a more personal, sincere way, so she feels uncomfortable to connect with me through this artificial mean.
I thought that was an SP side she had, but when she talks to me about her deeper tastes in arts, I notice how she reveals what moves her emotionally about it and it is often sentimental marshmallow. INTPs take a longer time to reach emotional maturity (I read that in an INTP description) and I think she is working on her emotional maturity.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
I think facial expressions, etc are not the best ways to gauge INTs. They are usually somewhere lost in their thoughts and can't be bothered with what their face or body language is doing.
 

Priam

New member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
272
MBTI Type
INTP
Overwhelming isolation ? That's very interesting.
I noticed how my friend tends to be interested in popular things sometimes(movies, music) that seem to contradict her style (she's quite a tomboy and went to see a Spice Girls show the other day) and often attends parties with friends, even if she stays in a corner of the room and only interacts with few people. I thought that was surprising coming from her, but I think it is her way to feel connected with people because of her inner isolation. When she attends a big concert with lots of people and later can talk to some more people about it, it allows her to connect.

I'd draw a line of distinction here. While having a great deal of investment in viewing myself as an intelligent and thoughtful person, I rarely if ever care about what is "cool" for an intelligent person to like. I will listen to Kelly Clarkson next to Belle & Sebastian next to Handel if it intrigues and moves me. I am also quite happy to talk about common interests with anyone (ala your concert point), but never as "small talk". I do not feign interest well, but I can be extraverted in discussing a topic that is real to me.

In a party type setting I will either make a pro forma appearance and then duck out or socialize with a small corner of people who may rotate out of the larger crowd. I can talk with a great number of people in this manner, but I never go swimming in that ocean. Sometimes, in dark moods, I simply sit deliberately alone and brood.

I also notice that she won't talk to me about those things. Like she knows I understand and connect with her in a more personal, sincere way, so she feels uncomfortable to connect with me through this artificial mean.

It's probably not artificial. I know I don't do artificial well. What it can be is a feeling of (to use the metaphor above) swimming in the kiddie pool when you're ready to deep-sea dive: fun and all, but could we expand the horizons a little?

I thought that was an SP side she had, but when she talks to me about her deeper tastes in arts, I notice how she reveals what moves her emotionally about it and it is often sentimental marshmallow. INTPs take a longer time to reach emotional maturity (I read that in an INTP description) and I think she is working on her emotional maturity.

Oh yes we're quietly sentimental fiends, though making us admit such can be pulling teeth. It could be related to emotional maturity, but I'd call it simply a desire to call up any emotion. When your groundstate is this baseline hum, any sort of peak or trough is to be savored in itself. On the flipside, I've met INTPs who are incredibly aesthetes with a great eye and ear for art. That's different. If we're passionate about an art, we will know every single corner of art possible and/or be desperately searching for more.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
I'd draw a line of distinction here. While having a great deal of investment in viewing myself as an intelligent and thoughtful person, I rarely if ever care about what is "cool" for an intelligent person to like. I will listen to Kelly Clarkson next to Belle & Sebastian next to Handel if it intrigues and moves me. I am also quite happy to talk about common interests with anyone (ala your concert point), but never as "small talk". I do not feign interest well, but I can be extraverted in discussing a topic that is real to me.

She certainly doesn't care about what's cool, and has the attitude you describe here. I don't mean there are intelligent or cool things to be interested in, but it is surprising coming from someone who displays a style that would generally be opposed to these things. I was wrong to say she had an artificial way about it, because I have rarely met someone with such integrity as my friend.
I do find her sweet when she reveals her sentimental marshmallow because it reminds me of myself when I was in an earlier stage of my emotional growth. NFs have gone through easy sentimentalism but have generally grown to see these things as unrealistic, and so it eventually takes deeper, true sentiment to reach out to them. It also comforts me to see she isn't as cold as she seems.

But are there moments when you feel the need to connect ? Does your isolation get you there sometimes ?
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
She certainly doesn't care about what's cool, and has the attitude you describe here. I don't mean there are intelligent or cool things to be interested in, but it is surprising coming from someone who displays a style that would generally be opposed to these things. I was wrong to say she had an artificial way about it, because I have rarely met someone with such integrity as my friend.
I do find her sweet when she reveals her sentimental marshmallow because it reminds me of myself when I was in an earlier stage of my emotional growth. NFs have gone through easy sentimentalism but have generally grown to see these things as unrealistic, and so it eventually takes deeper, true sentiment to reach out to them. It also comforts me to see she isn't as cold as she seems.

But are there moments when you feel the need to connect ? Does your isolation get you there sometimes ?


I know you have good intentions, but I gotta warn you, she's gonna clam up if she perceives that you see her emotions as cute, like when a baby learns to talk. :smile:

We just have a completely different way of relating to the world than you would, and we don't always see all emotional displays as being good, or even necessary. It's important that you don't impose/project your worldview on her.
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
I know you have good intentions, but I gotta warn you, she's gonna clam up if she perceives that you see her emotions as cute, like when a baby learns to talk. :smile:

We just have a completely different way of relating to the world than you would, and we don't always see all emotional displays as being good, or even necessary. It's important that you don't impose/project your worldview on her.
YES.

You cannot call somebody's emotions 'cute' unless you're trying to get them to stop. For some reason, you can get away with the idea that emotional development is 'cute' and have it be somewhat nonoffensive, but if you do the same thing with competence (Your attempts at competence are really cute!) you'll be perceived as incredibly mean and arrogant.
 

KLessard

Aspiring Troens Ridder
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
595
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
1w2
I know you have good intentions, but I gotta warn you, she's gonna clam up if she perceives that you see her emotions as cute, like when a baby learns to talk. :smile:

We just have a completely different way of relating to the world than you would, and we don't always see all emotional displays as being good, or even necessary. It's important that you don't impose/project your worldview on her.

:smile: (Is that emoticon ever funny.)

I realize that, and thanks for all the tips. I'm trying hard. Actually, I'm not showing her or telling her a quarter of what I'm writing here. I'm always extra careful not to cross her, because I fear her cold attitude. There has been a time when she was about to tell me something and said : "Don't make fun of me !" Well, I replied in my most earnest: "Laurence, I respect you far too much to make fun of you." Her eyes went all round.

I know I need to accept her and appreciate her as she is, and I do. It's just so hard to interact with her that I'm looking into all the possible ways to get a better understanding of how to reach out to her. Hurting her would be the last thing I'd want to do.

You once said to me about your INFJ friend: "You're still around, I like you."
What if she's not around ? You'll stop liking her ?
How do you explain that ? Cause I've had this fear about my friend...
 
Top