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[ENTP] Ness and The ENTP final conclusion advise.

Ness

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I was just wondering if there was any closing thought on this situation.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/welcomes-and-introductions/27-eileen-left-post179.html#post179

I got a negative response to my email, I was what I was expecting it to be a no thanks wrapped in white lie's and it was.

In short this what happened

I thought at first he was just being friendly and ignored it, I’m very wary of Ne flirting, I realised I really liked him. He was without doubt interesting in me for at last 4 months. Iv known him for 7 months now


Got stuck in my head and thought about it, had double check he really did like me and studied his behaviour until it was perfectly clear what his intentions were.


Grew to like him more, gave no signals then plucked up the courage one night, before I could say anything his ex burst back on the scene, that very night:horor:

All my friends told me he was getting back with her, I hung back waiting for it to happen.:unsure:

He carried on flirting with me, I ignored it. His ex got her foot in more and more and was just always there (dam Facebook, she added me):wtf:

I got really stifled and uncomfortable with situation and hardly spoke to him

He drifted back toward the ex, and gave up me. In the last month and a bit, his behaviour toward me changed sharply

I got concerned for the state of friendship and confessed to him and explained my position. with his ex and every ting that people had told me.

He said no thanks to my interest in, claimed he never meant to lead me on (obviously you would lie in this situation) said he had come to see me as a friend and surprising that nothing would ever between us:(

How would you take this never?

I don’t want close my options to him. At this time he has unfinished business with his ex. The social situation at the moment is as such that even if he had still reciprocated my interest, I would have said not now, lets wait hang out more and see what happens because things are so tricky socially.

But there was a definite spark that’s hard to find, and I know the more we get to know each other the more build a good solid friendship is this not the ideal platform for a spark to grow from?

Right now he either needs to get back with his ex, sort out the un-finished business or make sure she gets the message and leaves him alone.


Should I take at that I’m forever in the friend zone or just that the situation right now makes us exploring more than being friends socially difficult and fussy. Also I would completely understand that he would be consumed with sorting out his ex situation.

I need a conclusion on this I’m a J type.

Do I do a NEVR on him back and draw a line and risk a lost opportunity later down the line?

Do I save him from the friend zone so that if the situation changes the opportunity isn’t lost, and till linger with my feelings a little getting stung as get to know him more and potentially see get back with awful ex.

Or is and ENTP friend zoning me likely to be a very rigid forever decision?

Anyone up for murdering the ex? I’ll give you a cookie for it.:smile:
Anyone want to sweep me off my feet so I forget all about him?
Thoughts

Thank you
 

Totenkindly

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I still don't understand why you need an inflexible decision on this partly ambiguous situation.

Make it a decision for "no" right now, while he is with his ex, and otherwise move on with your life as if it were a permanent "no."

If by chance he leaves her and resolves that situation at some point in the future, AND if you have not yet moved on to someone else, then you can resolve to investigate the possibilities between the two of you at a later date.

I mean, it's still closure and a decision, rather than having to such a simple black and white answer. Live as if you've moved on (i.e. "NO"); and then if things change while you are still free, then go for it, and otherwise (if you're involved elsewhere) say, "tough luck, sugah, you had your chance and I've moved on."

I just don't recommend putting your life on hold in hopes this guy dumps his ex. That is the "worst case scenario" and one to avoid at all costs.
 

entropie

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I still don't understand why you need an inflexible decision on this partly ambiguous situation.

Make it a decision for "no" right now, while he is with his ex, and otherwise move on with your life as if it were a permanent "no."

If by chance he leaves her and resolves that situation at some point in the future, AND if you have not yet moved on to someone else, then you can resolve to investigate the possibilities between the two of you at a later date.

I mean, it's still closure and a decision, rather than having to such a simple black and white answer. Live as if you've moved on (i.e. "NO"); and then if things change while you are still free, then go for it, and otherwise (if you're involved elsewhere) say, "tough luck, sugah, you had your chance and I've moved on."

I just don't recommend putting your life on hold in hopes this guy dumps his ex. That is the "worst case scenario" and one to avoid at all costs.

I'd like to accompany myself here with Jen and like to add:

I dont think that projecting his behaviour onto a general debate about entps would really help. Cause after all everyone is different, may they all be entp or not. Especially when it comes to love life.
 
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Should I take at that I’m forever in the friend zone or just that the situation right now makes us exploring more than being friends socially difficult and fussy. Also I would completely understand that he would be consumed with sorting out his ex situation.

i think ENTP loyalty might actually be in play - i know i have a very very difficult time considering anything serious with other women while i still have feelings for someone.... i automatically friendzone everyone, even now when the relationship is most definetly over and i am loosing those feelings, my capacity to think of other women seriously is following it very slowly, and if i was still in touch with my ex like your ENTP this process would be so much slower. i can imagine your ENTP might be having a much more difficult time with that.

that's being said, move on anyway, he'd find you a lot more apealing as the healthy woman living her own life going on her own dates and having her own relationships then he would as the woman whose waiting for him to notice her.
 

Ness

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I'd like to accompany myself here with Jen and like to add:

I dont think that projecting his behaviour onto a general debate about entps would really help. Cause after all everyone is different, may they all be entp or not. Especially when it comes to love life.
Your right I've just exhausted all other avenue's even if the infomation I get here is just conjecture, I don't care. I don't care for the MBTi angle much its not the be all and end all,but you are all people with an opinion, you have unique perspective on this bcause you are out siders. I have no one else with this perspective. The inside perspective is making more confused, so here I am.
 

Ness

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[MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] you make a whole lot of sense, and your defiantly right. Unfortunately I can only deal in absolutes other wise I will continue to analyse the situation over and over, I need to direct my way of the thinking one way or another and it has to stay that way. Any seed of inflexibility invariably grow until the whole thing come up for analysis again. I can stop the analysis its like breathing to me.

Normally by now I would have reached a conclusion, I would if I could just drift off and let the friendship dwindle away, but I can't.
I would never put my life on hold for someone, If I chose to stay open minded the actually reality is not my life on hold but inside my head it is, because I'll be on an analysis loop. If I get rid of the loop I get rid of all possibility of ever changing my mind and could easily miss out here. That’s not to say should another new opportunity arise with someone else I would take it, I defiantly would.

I can't help but think that his decision to friend zones me is 'for now' and he will change his mind later down the line, but I can't be sure of that. I wonder how much an ENTP would friend zone it seems to go against the grain.
The relationship with his ex is cooked, if they get back together it won't last long, sounds cheesy but I know this, its something that I have discussed at length with and ENFJ (a close mutual friend of both he and I) thus far with him the situation has panned out exactly as the ENFJ and I had predicted. Unfortunately Ni dom is not magic its just clever pattern forming, I’ve reached the end of what is I can confidently know. I'm the danger zone everything seems like high stakes and risk from here on.
 

entropie

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Your right I've just exhausted all other avenue's even if the infomation I get here is just conjecture, I don't care. I don't care for the MBTi angle much its not the be all and end all,but you are all people with an opinion, you have unique perspective on this bcause you are out siders. I have no one else with this perspective. The inside perspective is making more confused, so here I am.

Ok I can feel you. I hope people around here can help you and dont be sad for too long. Lots of nice entps still out there :)
 

Totenkindly

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you make a whole lot of sense, and your defiantly right. Unfortunately I can only deal in absolutes other wise I will continue to analyse the situation over and over, I need to direct my way of the thinking one way or another and it has to stay that way. Any seed of inflexibility invariably grow until the whole thing come up for analysis again. I can stop the analysis its like breathing to me.

Normally by now I would have reached a conclusion, I would if I could just drift off and let the friendship dwindle away, but I can't.
I would never put my life on hold for someone, If I chose to stay open minded the actually reality is not my life on hold but inside my head it is, because I'll be on an analysis loop. If I get rid of the loop I get rid of all possibility of ever changing my mind and could easily miss out here. That’s not to say should another new opportunity arise with someone else I would take it, I defiantly would.

I can't help but think that his decision to friend zones me is 'for now' and he will change his mind later down the line, but I can't be sure of that. I wonder how much an ENTP would friend zone it seems to go against the grain.
The relationship with his ex is cooked, if they get back together it won't last long, sounds cheesy but I know this, its something that I have discussed at length with and ENFJ (a close mutual friend of both he and I) thus far with him the situation has panned out exactly as the ENFJ and I had predicted. Unfortunately Ni dom is not magic its just clever pattern forming, I’ve reached the end of what is I can confidently know. I'm the danger zone everything seems like high stakes and risk from here on.

Thanks for clarifying all that. It must be hard living in that gray area, not sure what's going to happen next, since the stability of knowing seems so important to you.

I'm not sure anyone can give you a definitive answer. It really depends on how much you are willing to risk your heart being broken. It sounds like if you don't lock him out completely, you will be at risk and potentially hurt. Are you willing to pay that price, which could feel like an ongoing wound of indefinite duration?

If you feel the cost is too high and/or a priority of yours is not getting hurt, then I would just drop him now, definitively. if he is worth the probable pain, then make a commitment to leave it open. But despite what you've said, overall you make it sound like you couldn't really move on while this door is kept open.

It sounds to me like you really want it to work with him and you believe that if you just hang around long enough, he'll come to his senses, the thing with the ex will resolve itself, and then you'll have a shot -- you're just getting cold feet because you're scared to take the risk and/or am not sure how long he'll stay with her. You kinda of want to have a change with him without the hurt/risk, but it really doesn't work that way. If you can't embrace a more adaptable situation and really are left with (1) closing the door or (2) leaving it open, then it comes down to how much potential hurt you are willing to suffer, based on his choices. Is he worth that or not? You'll have to prioritize and then accept the consequences.

I guess my question with the ENTP is, how do you know you're just not one more string of interesting exciting women in his life, and he'll eventually do the same thing and move on to the next one once things get a little stable? I'm always a little leery with the ENPs, unless I know them well and have a sense of what is underneath.
 
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[MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] you make a whole lot of sense, and your defiantly right. Unfortunately I can only deal in absolutes other wise I will continue to analyse the situation over and over, I need to direct my way of the thinking one way or another and it has to stay that way.

do you know yourself to have the flexibility to change your mind about it later if it's a no now? can the absolute change? or will deciding to not persue it right now means that if in the future he persues you, you would automatically say no?

look, social reality can be a bich, and when it comes to situations like this, you are more likely to get what you want by not wanting it - he is more likely to notice you if your not an open option at his feet. its stupid, but its usually true. the sucky part is that you need to be genuine about going on with your life or it is very unlikely to work - and if it still doesn't work - well at least you have an easier time with it because you moved on. its a win win situation if you can pull it off.

so, can your absolutes change?

Unfortunately Ni dom is not magic its just clever pattern forming
you've just gained a lot of respect from a random ENTP on the internet.
 
V

violaine

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You have your answer. Which is a no. Move on. He is not the only guy you'll ever spark with but you'll never meet anyone else waiting for a guy who is still involved with his ex. I don't mean to be harsh but if he wanted to be with you now or in the future, he would chase you down. Even if you can see that you're compatible, his interest is elsewhere. I also think that if he is trying to make it work with his ex, he should be free to do that. You won't do yourself any favors by waiting in the wings or plotting against her.

And not to throw ENTPs under the bus, but my ENTP ex told me he regularly flirted without intention because it made him feel good. That's only one ENTP, sure. We clashed a lot over the idea of non-serious flirting as I think of it as using people. And he told me a lot of people thought exactly the way he did and so it was ok to do that with like-minded people. (He wasn't doing it while we were in a relationship, supposedly). If anyone he was flirting with called him out on it or wanted more and he didn't have any serious intentions, he would stop flirting with them immediately. And usually cease communicating at all.
 

Kurt.Is.God

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You definitely know more about this than I do, so maybe I'm going to offend you by doubting you, but are you SURE he showed anything more than a passing interest in you? Maybe I'm different, but from what I know of ENxPs, most wouldn't lie when asked if they ever liked you.

A girl liked me for a little bit at the beginning of my junior year. I can't say I was trying to "lead her on", but I was very consciously trying to get her to like me even though I didn't like her. I was pretty aware of when she stopped liking me, and I didn't really feel bad. I just wanted to see where it would lead, and I would have said yes if she asked me out. I'm not trying to justify myself, I just wonder if this is what he was doing. I also do something which can be misinterpreted as flirting (though I don't think ENTPs or even other ENFPs do it as much), which is pushing at people to get them to disclose as much as possible, and then stopping when I feel I've made them uncomfortable. I just really like getting close to people and "joining my life with them" if that makes sense. I'm really self-conscious doing this to girls because it can be taken wrong, but maybe he's not.

Anyway, if he really did show an interest in you, I doubt you're "forever in the friend zone". "Forever" is a pretty alien concept to most ENxPs. I'd say there are next to no situations or ideas they'll rule out as impossible.

"Right now he either needs to... etc." I agree that he should, I just think "needs" is a word which doesn't limit ENxPs very well. I doubt he'll come to a conclusion very fast. It'll probably be up to his ex to finalize anything--actually, what type is she?

I don't think I can offer any "real" advice. I'm pretty bad at that. I hope I helped.

Also, I'd be willing to murder his ex, but I don't like cookies very much.
 

Ness

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do you know yourself to have the flexibility to change your mind about it later if it's a no now? can the absolute change? or will deciding to not persue it right now means that if in the future he persues you, you would automatically say no?

so, can your absolutes change?

No as yet I'v never been able to change them, or this would be the answer.
You definitely know more about this than I do, so maybe I'm going to offend you by doubting you, but are you SURE he showed anything more than a passing interest in you? Maybe I'm different, but from what I know of ENxPs, most wouldn't lie when asked if they ever liked you.

He came to room while staying at friends place, there were other rooms but he turned up in my room that had my stuff in, when I turned up he was there he asked to stay and watch a movie with me when he thought I was alseep he stroked my hair off my face for several minutes. He flirted with an asleep person. Other stuff but that nailed it. There is a slight chance Im wrong but I have to make a choice and I decided I was right. I would lie about not be interested in somone if I were n his postion. For an ENP is not very flirty he's suffers from social anxiety :)

Trust me I won't be laying at his feet, he had no idea I was into him, no body did. If I chose to stay open on this he won't have a clue. I get enough male attention I just never click with anyone. If I did this current problem would not exist. I would just simply forget him give no chance at all and move on to the next guy. There is never a next a guy though :( I am an introvert and Im very hard to get to know, this makes meeting new guys and connection with very hard.

You have to take my word for it that If I stay open minded I won't be hanging on. Just in my head I won't close his door. I'm basicaly a strong J type toying with doing somthing P type like because that would be the solution. It's very hard.
 

Kurt.Is.God

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No as yet I'v never been able to change them, or this would be the answer.


He came to room while staying at friends place, there were other rooms but he turned up in my room that had my stuff in, when I turned up he was there he asked to stay and watch a movie with me when he thought I was alseep he stroked my hair off my face for several minutes. He flirted with an asleep person. Other stuff but that nailed it. There is a slight chance Im wrong but I have to make a choice and I decided I was right. I would lie about not be interested in somone if I were n his postion. For an ENP is not very flirty he's suffers from social anxiety :)

Trust me I won't be laying at his feet, he had no idea I was into him, no body did. If I chose to stay open on this he won't have a clue. I get enough male attention I just never click with anyone. If I did this current problem would not exist. I would just simply forget him give no chance at all and move on to the next guy. There is never a next a guy though :( I am an introvert and Im very hard to get to know, this makes meeting new guys and connection with very hard.

You have to take my word for it that If I stay open minded I won't be hanging on. Just in my head I won't close his door. I'm basicaly a strong J type toying with doing somthing P type like because that would be the solution. It's very hard.

Yeah, I take back what I said. Hair-stroking is pretty hardcore stuff.
 

Ness

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[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]
It’s because of the way it’s done.
In order to close the door on him I don’t have a magic switch. I have to find or make something up that I don’t like abuot him and then concentrating on it, convincing myself this it’s to big a flaw and he’s not the guy for me.

It’s essentially evil, I don’t take it lightly. I’m sliding towards doing this, but with a twist.

I had a bit of a revelation. What if make his fatal flaw that he has an ex issue. So that if the ex goes away and he’s still up for it, he won’t have that fatal flaw anymore.

However this does seem too impersonal, like I’m trying to do a T thing and I’m and F type.
Maybe this has INFJ got to close that door and potentially miss out, because that what I do. He said never so if he misses out one day that’s his fault ←-- lovely blame shift there.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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There are a lot of good posts in this thread by [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] especially.

I think the fatal flaw isn't wholly the ex issue. I think it's the fact that he is flirting while still being involved with someone else. Even if you remove the ex from the equation, you still have someone who is flirting when they aren't 100% free yet.

The whole situation reads as a big heap of drama.
 

Totenkindly

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He came to room while staying at friends place, there were other rooms but he turned up in my room that had my stuff in, when I turned up he was there he asked to stay and watch a movie with me when he thought I was alseep he stroked my hair off my face for several minutes. He flirted with an asleep person.

He needs to really rein himself back in or else be honest about what he had been feeling. I consider face/hair stroking to be breaking the personal space barrier, especially to us introverts; and he was way out of line for putting out a cue like that if he wasn't interested (as he now claims).
 
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[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]
It’s because of the way it’s done.
In order to close the door on him I don’t have a magic switch. I have to find or make something up that I don’t like abuot him and then concentrating on it, convincing myself this it’s to big a flaw and he’s not the guy for me.

It’s essentially evil, I don’t take it lightly. I’m sliding towards doing this, but with a twist.

I had a bit of a revelation. What if make his fatal flaw that he has an ex issue. So that if the ex goes away and he’s still up for it, he won’t have that fatal flaw anymore.

However this does seem too impersonal, like I’m trying to do a T thing and I’m and F type.
Maybe this has INFJ got to close that door and potentially miss out, because that what I do. He said never so if he misses out one day that’s his fault ←-- lovely blame shift there.

funny, i am facing a similar situation from the other end of the spectrum... i need to make a clear choice about whether or not i can consider her the person i fall for given things she's done, i need to do the J thing to i can detatch myself emotionally from my exwife, in order to be in a healthier place where i may go on with my life to a point i might actuallly have a chance of rebuilding my family.

for me the canandrum is almost the oposite - i know it will be easy enough for me to change my mind about her if she demonstrates my impression is wrong, the difficult part is the part i need to do right now - to stop considering the other possible explenations to what is going through her mind and select the one i have the hardest time respecting, so that i can see the worst possible flaw in her (for me, its her making bad choices as the mother of my stepson).

this way if she turns out to be someone who just made a mistake, and is capable of facing it and fixing it when i provide he with the best oppertunity to do so, she can prove to me to be a decent person again.

so why not pick a flaw which is easy enough to be proven wrong about?
 

Ness

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He needs to really rein himself back in or else be honest about what he had been feeling. I consider face/hair stroking to be breaking the personal space barrier, especially to us introverts; and he was way out of line for putting out a cue like that if he wasn't interested (as he now claims).

He's reined himslef back alot over the past few weeks, that was way back near christmas. His attention towards me has worn off in a direct correlation to how much the ex has got her foot back in the door. She's been very persistant and I hung back. Im not bitter that he lied I would have to. I undertand the massive emotional draw an ex has I didn't want to do battle with her it's not my style.
 
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He needs to really rein himself back in or else be honest about what he had been feeling. I consider face/hair stroking to be breaking the personal space barrier, especially to us introverts; and he was way out of line for putting out a cue like that if he wasn't interested (as he now claims).

...in the army i used to rub my superior's offices bold head. my feelings about him where and still are that he doesn't have what it takes to assert authority.

i'm just saying, for an extravert who might be more comfortable with physical gestures it might not mean as much as it does for an introvert...
 
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