[INTJ] INTJs are inherently very subjective

[Kristiana]

Well, many descriptions overlap to an extent.

Also... ISTJs can appear as INTJs, depending on the environment they were raised. Hmmm...

Interesting, how so? What types of environments do you think produce this?

 

[Haphazard]

Interesting, how so? What types of environments do you think produce this?

ISTJs, along with most SJs, have a strong sense of what is 'normal.' If what an INTJ appears as is 'normal,' then an ISTJ will appear as an INTJ. More or less, an "N" environment will turn an ISTJ to look INTJ.

 

[TheLastMohican]

INTJs are extremely subjective.

All I can say is that an INTJ works a little like this. Let's say the Jungian functions of an INTJ are given the task to fly a plane from city A to city B.

Ni, Te, Fi, and Se all get on the plane. Ni gets the pilot's seat, of course, and Te gets the copilot's seat. Fi is given a book to placate her on the journey, but Se has nothing to do so he's got his face mashed up against the window and staring outside.

Meanwhile, Ni finds a flaw in the flight plan and draws a new line on the map as a better flight trajectory, a more efficient route from city A to city B. Te is about to look it over when suddenly Ni and Te hear shouting from the cabin. Te goes out to see what's going on and finds Se pointing out the window and shouting about some mountains or something -- Te doesn't really care, and thinks that Se is just acting like his usual ADD self and smacks him around a few times to get him to shut up. When Fi tells Te to please stop it, Te yells at her, and Fi starts crying, both for Se and her own sake.

Ni is still in the cockpit, figuring that the new flight plan is good and continues following it without Te's input. Ni then sips his coffee, pondering solutions to life, the universe, and everything, and the plane goes careening into the same mountains that Se was screaming about earlier, all of them dying instantly.

And that's when the INTJ falls into a sudden coma right in the middle of history class.

I love that description.

I am aware that I have strong Ni, but I think it is not nearly as bad as you describe it to be. You say that everything is funneled through Ni, but I think Ni is more the final step, which roots out fishiness and sends it back for another check-through. It is exercised at both ends of the process, but at least for me it does not rule out things until I have thought about them objectively first. But then it still makes me reinvestigate if something doesn't feel right.

 

[Haphazard]

I love that description.

I am aware that I have strong Ni, but I think it is not nearly as bad as you describe it to be. You say that everything is funneled through Ni, but I think Ni is more the final step, which roots out fishiness and sends it back for another check-through. It is exercised at both ends of the process, but at least for me it does not rule out things until I have thought about them objectively first. But then it still makes me reinvestigate if something doesn't feel right.

Well, of course it's not as bad as I describe it to be, that's just what happens when there's massive failure on all fronts. Ni is blind and deaf and can't fly a plane on his own, and Te got preoccupied with paying attention to Se and trying to silence it, and Fi sat in the background and was entirely ineffectual. If the functions don't work together they're not going to do anything right. If they had been working together properly, Te would have listened to Se's screaming about mountains and would have warned Ni about the flaw in the new flight plan, and they'd both come up with an even better one. At the end of the day, Fi would come up with a good moral to the story and try to enforce internal unity for the next tasks.

But that didn't happen. Instead, it failed. They all died. The end.

 

[TheLastMohican]

But that didn't happen. Instead, it failed. They all died. The end.

So which type do you think would have the functions working in the best harmony?

 

[sriv]

A balance of everything, which is impossible because ideal is a direction, not an end. Same as trying to count infinity.

 

[Haphazard]

So which type do you think would have the functions working in the best harmony?

All types have the potential to be balanced, and have all functions working in good harmony, but most of the time they're not exactly balanced for the best.

That said, a "J" type given the task to go from city A to city B would measure success by completing the job, a "P" type would measure success by what they got out of it and may not arrive at city B for a long, long time. Both ways have their their advantages and disadvantages and one cannot be deemed better than the other.

 

[TheLastMohican]

All types have the potential to be balanced, and have all functions working in good harmony, but most of the time they're not exactly balanced for the best.

That said, a "J" type given the task to go from city A to city B would measure success by completing the job, a "P" type would measure success by what they got out of it and may not arrive at city B for a long, long time. Both ways have their their advantages and disadvantages and one cannot be deemed better than the other.

So basically, the plane will crash into the mountains no matter which type is in charge.

 

[Haphazard]

So basically, the plane will crash into the mountains no matter which type is in charge.

Well, maybe not crash into the mountains, but otherwise find a way to fail catastrophically, yes.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Well, maybe not crash into the mountains, but otherwise find a way to fail catastrophically, yes.

Perhaps ISTJ's would see the mountains ahead, and respond by turning all the way around and flying back to the airport.

 

[Kiddo]

Warning:

I'm curious how you would type me Haphazard. My cognitive functions are generally...

Ni, Fi, Ti, Si

Pretty much all introverted.

 

[Haphazard]

I'm curious how you would type me Haphazard. My cognitive functions are generally...

Ni, Fi, Ti, Si

Pretty much all introverted.

I don't believe that all your cognitive functions are introverted. That is, unless you're Tommy from Tommy, stricken blind, deaf, and dumb from a very young age, leaving you with absolutely nothing but your mind.

Do you interact at all with your surroundings? Well, because you're communicating with me, you are...

 

[Kiddo]

Oh, but Kiddo, we were having so much fun!

I don't believe that all your cognitive functions are introverted. That is, unless you're Tommy from Tommy, stricken blind, deaf, and dumb from a very young age, leaving you with absolutely nothing but your mind.

Do you interact at all with your surroundings? Well, because you're communicating with me, you are...

Is this not also off topic?

Forgive me, the offtopic emoticon was meant to mean that I was going off topic, but you replied before I put the "Warning:" in there.

I understand you reasoning, but when I test for cognitive processes the leads are always the introverted functions. I've tested as every INXX.

Hey, I could even be an INTJ. Wouldn't that be fun?

 

[Haphazard]

Forgive me, the offtopic emoticon was meant to mean that I was going off topic, but you replied before I put the "Warning:" in there.

I understand you reasoning, but when I test for cognitive processes the leads are always the introverted functions. I've tested as every INXX.

Hey, I could even be an INTJ. Wouldn't that be fun?

If you were an INTJ, we'd all dance for joy or whatever we INTJs do... I guess we would just sit quietly and sip coffee for joy. That's INTJ-like, right?

Well, anyway. Testing means nothing. Do you believe that you are a functional human being? Somebody described as by having all introverted functions would not interact with the world at all. They would be a mass of flesh that could not do anything but observe, but was extremely active internally.

Again, because you are interacting with me, even over the internet, I believe that this is not the case.

Tests only signal what might be there, what is likely to be there, but not what is actually there. There is going to be error. In your case, it looks like the error is very significant.

 

[Kiddo]

Tests only signal what might be there, what is likely to be there, but not what is actually there. There is going to be error. In your case, it looks like the error is very significant.

Ah, which just means I am untypeable.

Probably because I am just so well developed and amazing.

Or maybe that just means I am an INFJ since we seem to be the rag bin of types. Just toss in anyone who doesn't fit the mold of the other types.

 

[Haphazard]

Ah, which just means I am untypeable.

Probably because I am just so well developed and amazing.

Or maybe that just means I am an INFJ since we seem to be the rag bin of types. Just toss in anyone who doesn't fit the mold of the other types.

I don't think so. I think you've got more extroverted functions than you realize.

Also, consider the placement of introverted functions if we look at the whole map -- if we do that, you appear INTJ.

Ni, dominant, of course. A well developed Fi could fool you.

Then it's Ti. Ti is 'critical,' and seeks to tear down things the INTJ creates. Lastly, Si, which ruins stuff. The shadow functions tear the life out of what the normal functions create, so a prevalence of them could be... umm... worrisome. Lol. To a strongly introverted person, the extroverted functions may seem invisible, but they're there when you interact with people. Because they're not what you focus on, it'd make sense that if answering test questions they are not expressed very strongly because an introvert doesn't think in that direction and therefore wouldn't know how to answer.

Then again, this is all just speculation. I'm quite good at that.

 

[Kiddo]

I'm afraid I would have to kill myself if I was INTJ, no offense. The INTJ friend I have in real life always seems so emotionless and cold, with absolutely no inflection in his voice. I do think I could pass as an INFP.

But then again, one day I may discover I have hidden Te talents I just wasn't aware of and then watch out as I begin to conspire to take over the world.

 

[Haphazard]

I'm afraid I would have to kill myself if I was INTJ, no offense. The INTJ friend I have in real life always seems so emotionless and cold, with absolutely no inflection in his voice. I do think I could pass as an INFP.

But then again, one day I may discover I have hidden Te talents I just wasn't aware of and then watch out as I begin to conspire to take over the world.

Actually, the balance might be good... my mistake... You understand, it was past midnight when I wrote my last response, lol.

INTJs, emotionless and cold? Are you dealing with an INTJ and not an INTP there? INTJs can be pretty good at hiding their emotions if they're not interested in something, but usually what comes out is a monotone when they're forced into a conversation. It sounds like you have a very bored INTJ on your hands. If you find out that your INTJ is bored, I suggest you MOVE AWAY FROM THE VICINITY. bored INTJs are nearly as dangerous as bored ENTPs, only instead of destroying the world, they'll silently sabotage every system in the world, one by one, without anybody noticing... Perhaps give him a rubik's cube or something. Seriously. A bored INTJ will either resort to diabolical scheming or searching the internet for porn.

INTJs come in all flavors. If you've tried one, it doesn't mean that you've tried them all.

INTJs just want to rearrange everything you hold near and dear to you for maximum efficiency without your consent. Taking over the world would only be a means to the end of correcting everything to work right, damn it. The world in and of itself holds no value.

 

[MetalWounds]

One of the trademarks to the INTJ is their independence of mind and unique personalities. Unlike other types than can be "predictably unique", the INTJ has the ability to be so unique that they sometimes don't fit the mold of what an INTJ "should be". Any type that is Ni dominant will be wildly unpredictable by definition.
The functions are not intended to identify outward behaviors as much as they are to define how we process information. Being in the military, where you are required to do something specifically because that's way it's always been done, I've had to significantly limit my use of Ni. I've had to strengthen the use of Te to make myself "useful", and as a result my dominance of Ni over Te is only very slim. I find that often, when the situation requires I become Te - Ni. Being an 8w7 Enneagram most would type me as an ENTx. I also find that I don't fit in with INTJs or ENTXs since I'm constantly reversing the roles of Ni and Te.

 

[elfinchilde]

intjs just appear emotionless and cold....especially to people who may be impatient with Ni. they actually feel a lot.

INFJs in a way are easier to 'latch' onto, because of the F function. for intjs though, if one can manage to 'latch' onto their Ni process, one may begin to try understanding them.