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  1. #71
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    does showing off your scares to prove you can take anything dish it back and survive to wink about it count as vulnerability? while the ones who identify more with 7w8 or 8 descirptions seem to prefer the knight in armor ordeal, the untouchable legion, the 7w6s or 6 description tend to prefer to reverse vulnerability on its head to give themselves more mobility, the shirtless barbarian style, and i've done that plenty. even when the content of the scares is real, that in itself isn't much in the realm of genuine reveal beyond lampshading your own tactics is it?

    for more withdrawn types it appears as a distinction made for ego masturbation - so that they can withdrawn from conflict and criticism whispering to themselves that only they and the people in biased positions towards them know who they really are. "what do you mean i murder people? its not my fault that they loose consciousness in my knife dancing! if you really knew that i saved a squirrel when i was in kindergarden you'd never think that, a murderer would never save a squirrel now would they? that's it, you just don't know me!"... yea, that's just using the idea of mask a a false dichotomy from your "real self" to avoid looking at what you are in the concrete outer world. again, not real vulnerability, just more bullshit.

    false vulnerability is cheap for everyone.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by StarsPer View Post
    Before I begin, let me just state that a lot of measurements or judgements here are very notably from an INFJ's, and, furthermore, my standpoint. If it sounds like complaining, it's because it is. But the point of the thread is to learn about what contradictions, or exceptions to these fairly typical findings / assessments of an ENTP by an INFJ may exist. Because I really want for them to. I've reveled in the unparalleled intellectual chemistry that can come with INFJ / ENTP interaction, only to come up empty-handed. There's a very distinct and pervasive cowardice in their conduct through all interpersonal areas where there exists the opportunity to be vulnerable, to relate, to be known and cared for. Even their relationship with information appears cheapened by their lack of committment to putting themselves out there more fully, to potentially be challenged and thus refined, or to refine another. I think it's because you're just not emotionally invested in ideas, quite the same as your relationship with people. It doesn't actually seem to matter to you to go not just deeper but all the way. You seem to be contented with transient flirtations with people and the ideas and connections that you effortlessly create and abandon. This insatiability surely fuels much of what I appreciate of you, but also maddens me. The connection that is sometimes shared between us is nothing short of enthralling, invigorating, tantalizing, inspiring. You are so easily capable of intoxicating me with your minds. And yet, I can't seem to truly wrangle you out into the light of day. And I am damned good at that. Especially when we are connecting really well! You have a distance from the thrills of it that I have to apply constant conscious effort around you to achieve. I also yearn to find a strong sense of humanitarian values and operation within the core of such a person. I know that I shouldn't expect something along my own lines.. but... I am so dismayed by such intense intellectuals sometimes being so overly preoccupied with things like.. for example, their personal appearance. Allocating so much time and even money to the matter. What the hell is that shit? (I actually know, but, oh my god is this a point of frustration!) I'm hoping to get some feedback on whether there is much to hold out hope for when it comes to an ENTP, for me. It may sound that I'm looking for another INFJ, and, while that is true, it is not what should be taken from this post. I appreciate the differences and the dynamics created through them. I just wish that I could close some of the gap with the right one of you, sometime. Almost all of my serious relationships have been with INFPs, but I have never been as passionate about, or felt as equally 'matched' in shared intellectualism at large than with ENTPs. Still, I've become pretty jaded and count your lot as being piss poor when it comes to loyalty, compassion, vulnerability and often even honesty. But this is all by a particularly hard to please INFJs standards. I'm sorry to NTs at large for my typical frustrations with these areas in which you are not NFs. I genuinely am meaning to be productive with this! If nothing else, I figure that some explicit INFJ reporting may be useful to some for learning about how others may experience them.
    I'm going to start off saying Im an ENTP and I'm a female. First of all. Half of this stuff, and I mean this honestly, sounds like your fault. For instance thinking that ENTPs care more about ideas than other humans is not our fault. We think about ideas. Try to analyze them. Apply them to new places. Kinda like taking a square peg and sanding it so it fits into a round hole just because it sounds fun. If you bend humans and experiment with them they tend not to appreciate it. ENTPs have especially learned this through trial and error. People with the feelings instead of the thinkings almost intimidate us too. You guys have like emotions and stuff. We have no idea how to deal with those for you because usually we follow strange practices to mask or ignore our own feelings. We also don't feel things as easily as you may. We tend to go to people and use them as tools. Not meaning this rudely. We use them as tools to understand better. If we like or respect certain views or are intrigued by the person, we keep coming back and sharing our new ideas. That may seem like we care more about ideas but trust me it's just us trying to say we like you and want to know more. That being said if you're trying to tell us about your day, I can almost guarantee they care more about whatever the new piece of info they learned than how you spilled coffee on your white shirt before a meeting. If you want to tell us about your work life, relate it to psychology. ENTPs treat applied psychology like idea-gold. Also, nothing confuses and frustrates ENTPs more than making them guess what you want or how you feel. We like direct language. So instead of communicating like oh you wouldn't understand why I'm mad say something more like "I'm mad and I want to tell you about it. Are you willing to talk to me seriously?" (This is my assumption on your intent with that phrase) otherwise we'll be like "um.. ok.. cool. So I heard about this and this today.." and it isn't meant to be cold more so that to me personally you just said "I don't want to talk about it. But I'm mad. But you aren't smart enough to get it" so I would just step back like ok I'm crossing a boundary... I will try to make them feel better by telling them about what I'm excited about. I also don't appreciate what you said about us not having strong core values. Of course we do. We are people. But we may flip sides of an argument just to thoroughly understand someone's opinion on something. If you want to learn more about core values listen to the way they word things. If I truly oppose someones view it will be a direct back and forth. If I agree with someone but want to keep the argument going I'd say "okay but have you considered....." It's me literally saying, I agree but this is fun so I'm going to keep it going.
    I hope this was helpful to those struggling to understand my personality type.
    Likes Mr Kovacs liked this post

  3. #73
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    My best friend is INFJ, I'm ENTP. My INFJ bestie is absolutely more invested in his ideas than I am. I also feel like he's just more good-hearted than I am, I value things like efficiency much higher than he does.
    I really don't like being vulnerable, in any sense of the word. In many cases I don't want to share my current thoughts or point of view since I'm not sure that I'm done thinking about it, and if my current pov happens to be one that I know he (or others) will find unsympathetic, I might choose not to share it... especially since I might still change my mind about it! I like discussing ideas and I like searching for truth - I don't really care all that much about expressing my opinions or my individuality.

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