[INTJ] INTJ: Do you/they resermble the descriptions?

[Coriolis]

Funny, I just don't feel the need to compare myself to others. I compare my level of knowledge, not to yours or Rand's or any other INTJ's, but to the unknown ideal of whatever pure form it may happen to take. Knowledge is not a social function, nor it is a reason to compare penis sizes as a metaphor for intellectual stature.

I compare my knowledge with the job or purpose at hand. Either I know enough to accomplish it, or I don't. If the latter, I can learn what I need, or get the help of someone who already does -- in which case, I sure will compare their knowledge to mine, else it might be the blind leading the blind.

 

[Zarathustra]

That's a narcissistic comparison. It is without doubt a narcissistic comparison.

"Someone run and tell teacher!"

Funny, I just don't feel the need to compare myself to others. I compare my level of knowledge, not to yours or Rand's or any other INTJ's, but to the unknown ideal of whatever pure form it may happen to take. Knowledge is not a social function, nor it is a reason to compare penis sizes as a metaphor for intellectual stature.

Now if only if you had the self-awareness to realize that all you're doing here is showing a preference for Ti over Te, talking about Ti in lofty terms, and Te in derogatory terms.

But, well, yeah, it's quite obvious that said awareness is lacking.

 

[Coriolis]

What I described above is both criticism of character and of someone's cooking. One could say, for example, "You're a fatso!" Or one could say, by contrast, "You could stand to lose a little weight." You may be insulted by the former, or you could just take it on the (double) chin and say, "You're right, I am too fat," as it were intended constructively. The insulting form of criticism does tend to get more attention, as Ramsay seems to know instinctively. (I'm not referring to you as an example.

I fail to see how cooking skill or being overweight are aspects of character, regardless of how any criticism is delivered or received. Telling a fat person he obviously is lazy and has no self-control addresses character, as is telling a bad cook his work suffers because he lacks motivation and refuses to apply himself.

These character criticisms are somewhat constructive in that they give the person at least the critic's estimate of what the real problem is, so they know what to examine and work on. To be more constructive, the criticism would ideally be more specific.

 

[Zarathustra]

I fail to see how cooking skill or being overweight are aspects of character, regardless of how any criticism is delivered or received. Telling a fat person he obviously is lazy and has no self-control addresses character, as is telling a bad cook his work suffers because he lacks motivation and refuses to apply himself.

That's cuz you're an illogical INTJ, Coriolis.

You simply don't understand logic, since you're not an INTP.

Now don't start getting arrogant (i.e., defending your perfectly sound reasoning)!

 

[Coriolis]

Don't worry - I'm too narcissistic to feel I have to defend my reasoning to anyone.

As for logic, who cares if I understand it, as long as I can make it work.

 

[Zarathustra]

Don't worry - I'm too narcissistic to feel I have to defend my reasoning to anyone.

As for logic, who cares if I understand it, as long as I can make it work.

 

[Rasofy]

I had an INTJ friend (which now I consider just an acquaintance) and I think the descriptions fit him quite well. One of the smartest guys I've ever met. A bit arrogant and pretty weird. To be honest, I don't trust him much. He seems to be the kind of atheist that think just because there is no God to judge you, there's no point in having minimal moral standards. At the very least, he tries to look tough by pretending. Maybe it's just immaturity. But I highly enjoyed the intellectual stimulation he provided. A while ago I asked him which was his next goal and his answer was ''Dude, my goal is world domination. All the other ''goals'' are just means.'' :yim_rolling_on_the_

I still think an INTJ woman would be the perfect match for me. If only I can find one who's fun and not too stubborn...

 

[Zarathustra]

I still think an INTJ woman would be the perfect match for me. If only I can find one... [who's] not too stubborn...

I recommend you adjust that last expectation...

 

[Mal12345]

I compare my knowledge with the job or purpose at hand. Either I know enough to accomplish it, or I don't. If the latter, I can learn what I need, or get the help of someone who already does -- in which case, I sure will compare their knowledge to mine, else it might be the blind leading the blind.

That's a functional comparison, not a question of egoes.

 

[Rasofy]

I recommend you adjust that last expectation...

Can't INTJs be fun? Even though a fun INTJ is likely borderline rude. But I enjoy it. I hardly take them seriously, anyways, but I keep it a secret. Just let them think they are badass and everything is fine.

 

[Zarathustra]

That's a functional comparison, not a question of egoes.

Wow.

This is taking on the exact same pattern as my conversation with him via pm.

Kinda fascinating...

If you keep it going, Coriolis, this will last for about 10 more messages or so, at which point, once you've wrapped up the whole of the last 15 or so messages into a nice little summary that demonstrates the blatant inconsistency in his reasoning, he'll drop out of sight, not to be heard from again.

Hopefully, by pointing this out, I haven't messed up the process, and we can still observe it unfold again right before our eyes...

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

*cough*beingadick*

 

[Mal12345]

"Someone run and tell teacher!"



Now if only if you had the self-awareness to realize that all you're doing here is showing a preference for Ti over Te, talking about Ti in lofty terms, and Te in derogatory terms.

But, well, yeah, it's quite obvious that said awareness is lacking.

I've spoken of INTJ in glowing terms on this forum, and this seems to impress you more for some reason. I've always liked them, some with an almost slap-happy sense of humor, some a bit more serious, and always very intelligent. But none of them have been anything close to what I would call friends. You would blame me for that I'm sure. And yet there seems to be this wall between us, an invisible wall that consists of ideals, for example, the ideal friend, the ideal wife/husband, etc. I'm just too much of an authenticity wonk to fake the impression that I can manage to rise up to your impossible standards.

And yes, I do try to come across as the genteel philosopher type, better a Bruce Banner versus the Hulk that I always have to keep repressed.

 

[Zarathustra]

*cough*beingadick*

Aphrodite, I wonder when you're gunna realize that I don't give a shit about your Fe judgments.

And yes, I do try to come across as the genteel philosopher type...

That's how you try to come across?

Word for the wise: you're failing...

(Which is not to say that I wasn't intrigued when you started pm'ing me, but, frankly, your devotion to the truth was not impressive. Had you simply acknowledged that I had pointed out a very real, very obvious, and very flagrant inconsistency in your reasoning, rather than run off and never speak a word about it again, I would have had a lot more respect for you. But, as it stands, you chose the latter, and thus demonstrated that your commitment to the truth, however strong it may be, is far weaker than your desire to build up/maintain/protect your own ego.)

(I recommend refraining from the obvious retort, as I'm waiting for it with a truthful response that will wipe it from relevance.)

 

[Mal12345]

Aphrodite, I wonder when you're gunna realize that I don't give a shit about your Fe judgments.



That's how you try to come across?

Word for the wise: you're failing...

(Which is not to say that I wasn't intrigued when you started pm'ing me, but, frankly, your devotion to the truth was not impressive. Had you simply acknowledged that I had pointed out a very real, very obvious, and very flagrant inconsistency in your reasoning, rather than run off and never speak a word about it again, I would have had a lot more respect for you. But, as it stands, you chose the latter, and thus demonstrated that your commitment to the truth, however strong it may be, is far weaker than your desire to build up/maintain/protect your own ego.)

(I recommend refraining from the obvious retort, as I'm waiting for it with a truthful response that will wipe it from relevance.)

Oh I see, so it's my job to impress you. Now I understand.

But you don't seem to understand that I bailed from that intriguing convo because you started asking me personal questions.

The "genteel philosopher" comment was in reply to your referring to me "talking about Ti in lofty terms." I don't think I am bragging on Ti, I'm just being my genteel philosopher self.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Aphrodite, I wonder when you're gunna realize that I don't give a shit about your Fe judgments.

Something about your judgmental dickishness just brings out my Fe police. :cop:


My main complaint (yeah, yeah, I know you don't care): Is that you are a hypocrit. You personally attack others and exhibit bullying behavior, while at the same time attempting to call it out in others. Quit being a hypocrit and I'll quit calling you out on it.

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh I see, so it's my job to impress you. Now I understand.

No, your job is not to impress me.

Your job is to be committed to the truth.

If you did your job well, I would naturally be impressed.

But you don't seem to understand that I bailed from that intriguing convo because you started asking me personal questions.

Actually, your weak commitment to the truth is once again showing: you *started* the convo with personal info (frankly, I had forgotten this until your message before this one, when you started talking about INTJs and their standards and your friendships with them, cuz that reminded me that you started our conversation because you wanted to better understand your relationship with your INTJ co-worker), and you ended it once I pointed out a blatant logical inconsistency in your reasoning that had absolutely nothing to do with your personal situation (it had to do with the social and historical importance of Jung's terminology).

In fact, by the time you left, we'd barely talked about personal info for ~5+ messages.

 

[Zarathustra]

My main complaint (yeah, yeah, I know you don't care): Is that you are a hypocrit. You personally attack others and exhibit bullying behavior, while at the same time attempting to call it out in others. Quit being a hypocrit and I'll quit calling you out on it.

Actually, I don't exhibit bullying behavior at all.

Nor am I a hypocrite.

This is what you consistently fail to comprehend.

And, a large part of the reason for that, is that you falsely think you're a Te-user.

(Now you've even switched it up to you being an Ni/Si-dom, which is truly retarded.)

(If you actually understood the theory, and weren't just making up your own as you go [hello, tertiary Ti], you would know this.)

I value truth, and could give a shit about the social harmony aspect (i.e., I care about Te far more than Fe).

You could give a shit about the truth, and you highly value the social harmony aspect (i.e., you care about Fe far more than Te).

You call me a bully, but I don't go around here being mean to people at random, or because they are "weak".

I get in arguments with people when I know what they're saying is bullshit, and then I show why it is so.

You, however, as someone who values Fe and doesn't value Te, don't understand this.

And as long as you keep deluding yourself with your bullshit theory, and don't learn the real ones, you never will.

 

[Mal12345]

No, your job is not to impress me.

Your job is to be committed to the truth.

If you did your job well, I would naturally be impressed.

But that is only the truth of your own subjective being, your Ni, so to speak. Sorry, but I just wouldn't make for a very good cult member standing in the front of your mob of followers so I can stare up at you in awe, an intellectual giant on the stage, while you pontificate on your personal notion of truth and life in general, but while trying to ignore the glaring reality of the nose hairs that reveal the imperfections underneath the appearances.

I just realized the obvious fact that Carlos Castaneda, who developed a So. Californian cult in the 1980s, was an INTJ.

Actually, your weak commitment to the truth is once again showing: you *started* the convo with personal info (frankly, I had forgotten this until your message before this one, when you started talking about INTJs and their standards and your friendships with them, cuz that reminded me that you started our conversation because you wanted to better understand your relationship with your INTJ co-worker), and you ended it once I pointed out a blatant logical inconsistency in your reasoning.

Once again, this has been a very revealing conversation.

I don't have standing friendships with INTJs, I have working friendships which would quickly dissolve if any of us quit the job and moved on. I have an INTJ classmate "friend" on facebook, but he's not a friend per se and in high school he never invited me to his D&D games with the other nerds.

If I have a "weak commitment" to truth, it's because I don't believe in Truth with a capital T as you do. I tried it on for size many years ago, and it didn't suit my character or thinking style. INTJ philosophers such as Rand and Nietzsche don't provide Truths, as they think they do, only guidelines.

 

[Mal12345]

I had an INTJ friend (which now I consider just an acquaintance) and I think the descriptions fit him quite well. One of the smartest guys I've ever met. A bit arrogant and pretty weird. To be honest, I don't trust him much. He seems to be the kind of atheist that think just because there is no God to judge you, there's no point in having minimal moral standards. At the very least, he tries to look tough by pretending. Maybe it's just immaturity. But I highly enjoyed the intellectual stimulation he provided. A while ago I asked him which was his next goal and his answer was ''Dude, my goal is world domination. All the other ''goals'' are just means.'' :yim_rolling_on_the_

I still think an INTJ woman would be the perfect match for me. If only I can find one who's fun and not too stubborn...

I truly like all the INTJs that I have made acquaintance with. They are just not what I would call friend types. I would like to point out that not all INTJs are atheists. However, I would have to say that INTJs tend to be atheists, while INTPs tend to be agnostics. But that is only because INTPs prefer to leave at least one thread untied, while INTJs (even the theists) prefer to tie up all the ends and then melt the knots with fire just to make sure the rug never, ever comes unraveled.