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[ENTP] Non-machiavelian ENTP?

paintmuffin

New member
Joined
May 14, 2009
Messages
159
MBTI Type
eNTP
I think that's it exactly. I have friends who have admitted they suspect I spend my alone time in an underground lair laughing maniacally and plotting world domination. I've explained that I can scheme, and I can plot but being totally ruthless takes too much energy.

Yeah - I scarcely carry out my schemes.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I just recalled an old INTP appreciation thread and Sub's comment about associating INTP with intelligence. It's helpful to find primary associations between subjects, but what more is there? He rightfully asked what other qualities there are with INTP in addition to intelligence. I think the thread eventually evolved to finding other qualities, too.

I've been partly proud, mostly sad for having ENTP seen as basically immoral but successful figures. Is there talk about someone obviously fake, a cheater, a con-artist? Hey there's the ENTP.

The hegemony on the subject is too great to endure.

So how does ENTP show the qualities of ENTP without cheating everyone?

Does the idea of a "giver" apply to ENTP as it does to ENFP, in our popular opinion?

Personally, I think I go a struggle between some "dark side" and a good one. I love the good feeling of being honest, lawful, direct and open. Then again, not everything I do is good for everyone to know. Some things I do in secret, but I think I'm extremely tuned in to the mores of the society, and find some clever ways to preserve them. I'm a moral guardian, moral libertarian, having some amalgam of morals from many sources. I think I'm good for the society.

I think my worst part is being a moral liberal by my word and a moral conservative by my actions. I keep good standards internally, but talk about carefree values to most others - perhaps to the detriment of everyone else. I can't be sure what kind of an effect I have. I do not know.

So, I'm an ENTP and low-mach. Should I consider myself as a normal ENTP or a speciality, the rare ENTP who doesn't betray and manipulate people with his devious plans?

What about other ENTPs who don't subscribe to the standard of a con-artist? Do we have anything within the MBTI to describe them?

I usually see ESTP associated with con artists or swindlers more often than ENTP...ENTPs are portrayed as kind of chaotic neutral, to put it in nerdy nerd nerd terms.

And those long term strategic manipulators you refer to are generally NTJ types (though morally sound NTJs will often direct this toward good works, which is typically really impressive because of the depth and lengths they'll go to.) NTPs, in my experience, don't often care enough to plan that sort of thing out in advance--they just assume their wits and a general conceptual understanding will be enough to guide them.

Some ENTPs are very giving people who are usually willing to help; they're especially good if you ask for help in one of their pet areas of interest. I think they just enjoy the chance to share knowledge and see if you have any unique perspective to add. I have a feeling most eventually grow into much more understanding people; it just takes time. I hope I will.

Most ENTPs I've encountered are very loyal to a few certain specific ideals. These ideals are probably different from most people's and that's why there's this image of being manipulative, and in a way they are, but it's less goal-oriented than with NTJs. The motive for it is often just personal amusement or testing one's own abilities, just to see how far the system can be pushed before it breaks, and to know what happens on the other side.

They're more agents of controlled chaos than of strictly regimented plans for world domination and self-advancement, in my experience.
 

LostInNerSpace

New member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,027
MBTI Type
INTP
I think I'm good for the society.

I can see that.

I think my worst part is being a moral liberal by my word and a moral conservative by my actions. I keep good standards internally, but talk about carefree values to most others - perhaps to the detriment of everyone else. I can't be sure what kind of an effect I have. I do not know.

Believe it or not, me too in some ways. I do have an inner conservative.

ENTP and INTP don't make plans. We wing our way through life. Take it as it comes. I have no devious plans. I don't seek to manipulate everyone. I am just a survivor. I'm at my best in survival mode, always have been.

I don't know what is going on here. I don't enjoy this if that's what you think. I don't see why it's even necessary. I think I am a pretty typical INTP. We are just made this way. I think we are hardwired to rebell against authority. It's nothing personal. We don't mean anything by it. The most famous INTP in history said this of authority: "As punishment for my contempt for authority, fate has made me an authority" Albert Einstein.

ENFPs are actually quite selfish. ENFJs are the givers.
 

Synarch

Once Was
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
8,445
MBTI Type
ENTP
ENFP's are so selfish. Like little children, though, so it's typically not very dangerous.
 

entropie

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
16,767
MBTI Type
entp
Enneagram
783
ENFP's are so selfish. Like little children, though, so it's typically not very dangerous.

I personally came up with a new theory. I think they are very pragmatic. And because they are generally very emotional, the combination seems like they are being very selfish.

I use the things that bug me about enfps, to get an idea of how other people may see me. Its not equal, but the feeling may be equally
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
MBTI Type
ENTP
sheesh, what is it with necromanced threads these days, involving me in the OP? :unsure:
 

substitute

New member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,601
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ENTP
many people assume that just because you have an ability, and they'd use it as a first choice if they had it (or if they do have the ability and do choose to use it first), that you will too. while others tend to be paranoid and go with their fear, so they worry that you'll do your worst just because you can.

I can't believe I didn't say way back when, that this post summed up what I thought about the issue very well.
 

norepinephrine

New member
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Jun 10, 2008
Messages
402
MBTI Type
INTP
ENTP and INTP don't make plans. We wing our way through life. Take it as it comes. I have no devious plans. I don't seek to manipulate everyone. I am just a survivor. I'm at my best in survival mode, always have been.

+ 5

There is something intriguing about survival mode. Sleeping on the potential consequences of a particularly bad situation... then waking with a plan.

Hasn't failed me yet, though I suspect it eventually will. It's similar to kiting checks.
 

Sentura

Phoenix Incarnate
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
750
MBTI Type
ENXP
Enneagram
1w9
i understand where you're coming from, but the MBTI lacks dimension in what i call "direction"; i.e. the way a person focuses energy. there are many descriptions and traits in a type, and while most of them may fit between people of the same type, their direction may not.

would you as a type be more of an entrepreneur starting business, a scholar that tinkers with objects; would you vilify yourself in your search or would you be more helpful towards people on your way to a goal?
 

yenom

Alexander the Terrible
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
1,755
If you want to say Machievellian, INTJs are far more machievellian.
Yoiu really don't know what they are plotting.

I suspect Nicolo Machievelli is an INTJ.

They're more agents of controlled chaos than of strictly regimented plans for world domination and self-advancement, in my experience.

ummm-no. Plotting to me is as natural aso solving a rubik's cube.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I though machiavelian was related to pirates.

I might need a layman's explanation of what exactly it means. :D

As far as con artist goes. I feel like I am quite capable of it in principle. But by principle, I am athwarted. Arr.
 

LostInNerSpace

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Jan 25, 2008
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INTP
Gore is ENTJ. And he is machiavellian. This whole global warming thing....

The arctic ice could be gone by 2013. The ice over the arctic is like a giant piece of tinfoil reflecting heat from the sun back into space. That will raise sea temperatures and disrupt the warm water currents. Fresh water from melting ice is more buoyant than salty water. This fresh water is heated up by the sun and travels around the globe in warm water currents. New York and Florida will not be under water by 2013, we have to wait for Iceland to melt for that to happen. The first major effect we may notice would be Europe getting very, very cold. Parts of Scotland are as far north as Siberia. The warm water currents moderate Europe's temperature. It will almost certainly devastate oceanic life that depends on these cycles.

What's out of hand about that? He should get a Nobel prize. Oh, wait. He already did.
 

LostInNerSpace

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INTP
If I were like everyone else, would I have helped as I did? Where would we be now? It is because I am different that I am always looking to be reasonable.

Instinct might suggest the best alternative is to try to control. In this case it will not work.

"[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica]It is also a subordination to the plans of others which the independent INTP resists. Faithfully helping others is not a problem, however, but he must feel in control of his decision to subordinate or not.[/FONT]"
An INTP Profile
 

LostInNerSpace

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Jan 25, 2008
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INTP
I read into everything like ten layers deep. If there are actually only two layers, I will extrapolate the remaining 8 layers from the context. Those deeper layers are the realm of paranoia. It is not possible to know how many if any of the layers are close to reality. The smallest squeak of something that looks like it could be a threat gets amplified in the deeper layers and can set me off.

This is why I should stay away from here.
 
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